Monks Armor


General Discussion


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So I ran Doomsday Dawn first adventure among my PC's there was a Monk, and he was really underwhelmed by the monks ACs, during the game he was the first to go down and was afraid to actually get in the thick of it due to his low AC.
he thinks Monks armor is too low and I have to agree they should be able to add some kind of bonus at certain levels to make their AC at least as good as Light Armor. As it stands the Monk has worse armor of any martial class reducing their staying power in a fight.


Probably belongs on the class section but can I ask what was his AC, dex bonus etc.?


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Everyone's AC sucks at first level, which is a pretty major problem given how high the attack bonuses for level 0 martial creatures are (an average goblin is apparently as good at swordfighting as a the absolute best possible 1st level PC).


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Probably belongs on the class section but can I ask what was his AC, dex bonus etc.?

his Ac was 16, 4 from dex, 1 fron level and 1 from expert, he had 18 dex 16 str


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Monks appear to need some sort of defensive reaction like fighters, paladins, and rogues have access to, in order to shore up "low level defense."

I would suggest something like
[R] Ki Step (Feat 1)
Requirements: you are not encumbered or wearing armor
Trigger: You are targeted by a melee attack by an attacker you can see.

Spend 1 Ki, Step, then gain a +2 circumstance bonus to your armor class until the start of your next turn. Resolve the triggering attack against this armor class.

Make this an entry level Ki feat as a defensive alternative to Ki Strike.


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Huh I didn't think 16 was that bad of an AC. I'll do some more book diving.


16 is on the low end but there isn't very much variance. The highest possible AC at level 1 is 18 if your character fills the dex cap on Chain Mail, which is just going to be Rangers and Barbarians.


So what cabbage said then they probably need a reaction effect eh?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Or possibly just buff Crane Stance a bit so it gives the same AC bonus as raising a heavy shield.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
Everyone's AC sucks at first level, which is a pretty major problem given how high the attack bonuses for level 0 martial creatures are (an average goblin is apparently as good at swordfighting as a the absolute best possible 1st level PC).

This one is my biggest gripe. Monsters have extremely high Attack bonus/AC, equal to an optimized fighter of equal level most of the time. This really leaves other cgaracters in the dust sometimes. I thought enemies were supposed to be roughly on par with a character of equal level, which I guess applies but only to Fighters. I think that's a bad baseline because that class has more Attack/AC than anyone else. Also they achieve this with 10 STR when the Fighter needs 18. They really shouldn't expect all characters to have 18 on their to-hit attribute for the math to function. Makes PCs not look too heroic when basic mooks have similar numbers as the heroes.


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I thought monsters where suppose to be a challenge for a party of 4 not equal to a single character is that not correct?


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Vidmaster7 wrote:
I thought monsters where suppose to be a challenge for a party of 4 not equal to a single character is that not correct?

1 Monster of equal Level to the APL is considered a "Trivial Encounter". Though this monster has higher AC and to-hit than anyone in the group and is likely gonna crit them. Trivial Encounter is supposed to be "spend no resources" but not the case from what I've seen. Hell, Level 0 mooks have GREAT attack rolls.

2 Monsters of Level = APL becomes a Hard encounter, and 3 is like super lethal final boss tier. These are a lot tighter now.


ChibiNyan wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
I thought monsters where suppose to be a challenge for a party of 4 not equal to a single character is that not correct?

1 Monster of equal Level to the APL is considered a "Trivial Encounter". Though this monster has higher AC and to-hit than anyone in the group and is likely gonna crit them. Trivial Encounter is supposed to be "spend no resources" but not the case from what I've seen. Hell, Level 0 mooks have GREAT attack rolls.

2 Monsters of Level = APL becomes a Hard encounter, and 3 is like super lethal final boss tier. These are a lot tighter now.

Hmm that is weird.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Huh I didn't think 16 was that bad of an AC. I'll do some more book diving.

Yes but he also wanted 18 strength which he didnt do because he thought it would be a bad idea since his AC would be 15

Liberty's Edge

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Yeah, my problem with monk AC is that it seems to assume you're taking an 18 in Dex, leaving no room for a Str 18 monk, even if you want to use maneuvers, or, skills I guess. But then the monsters all seem to be built with the assumption that every PC is going to be built optimally, so not having a max in your attack stack is pretty painful (I know fists have the finesse trait, I'm talking about athletics).


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As a monk I had the same problem!

I had a lower AC than our fighter and didn't even have a reactionary method to defend myself by raising a shield. I was one of only 2 characters to drop to zero, and was the person to drop to zero the most.


Monsters sort of need to hit since they do so little damage and can survive maybe two hits. The goblin example is doing 1d6 damage with no bonuses, if he crits and rolls max damage, the only character he's taking down is an HP:6 heritage sorcerer/wizard who put no points in con.

The design seems to be to make players miss an awful lot, and be able to take punishment. It's a reversal of the PF1 design. Our goblin is most likely to move up, do 3 damage, then die in a single hit from a martial character.

The basic monster attack calculation seems to be about 1.5*CR+6. Your AC, assuming you advance armor whenever you can, will be about the same. You start with Level+7 with increases every 4 levels. A more heavily armored character will see increases faster assuming they boost their Dex as their available dex to AC increases due to quality improvements as well as proficiency bumps. So a heavy armor character would end up with a progression that looked like 1.5*L+7. I haven't looked at exactly how lighter armor progresses, but I'm not expecting too much difference.

It's never going to look all that better than being hit on an 11+ for same level creatures.

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