Hidden Monsters creation rules ?


Monsters and Hazards


Okay maybe the title is more hyping than it really is x).

So today i got bored and decided to read the "hazards" part of the bestiary. There i found out the table to design hazards.
First i didn't mind anything interesting or worth noting until i saw Hazards got AC and really close attack bonuses to those of monsters of the same level.

And comparing to monsters of same level, it appears that it's almost the same thing. There are some variations of course but it might get from Monsters having HP and Hazards not but it's always in 1-2 range.

Do you think Paizo did this on purpose or monsters might have totally differents stats ? And do you think you could build up monsters following Hazards rules until we get the full version ?


That's been my plan tbh. A lot of the vanilla monsters are very boring to run.


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Yeah that's what i feel too about RPG like Pathfinder or D&D 5. This "monster tier" as i like to call it really bother me with its concept of : you are level 5 never think you are going against a balor it's way too high level to defeat it. Or i can't do a goblin theme campaign past level 3.

That's why i loved d&d 5 with easy, fast and comprehensible rules to create a monster and make me feel i could create something. And with starfinder, i was delighted to see how they brilliantly handle that (even if my group is not into the pew pew lasers thing), it was even better than d&d 5e : i could create a level 20 goblins with relevant stats just on the fly with like 2 minutes for me to do it before murderhobos enter my hous kill it and take all his stuff.

I know it's just a playtest but i think it would have been great if they released the rules to create monsters, i mean they did it for hazards and it seems it's exactly the same and it's so frustrating as i am the kind of GM who can't just come up with stats on the fly.

Pathfinder was a great game but in terms of letting people create their own content, it can really be impossible like me who spend 3 hours to design a young green dragon for my campaign. Don't get me wrong, some just manage to do that but for less experienced people it is just daunting and poorly eplain.

I got a lot of hope when the playtest was first announced and for the most part, i was very pleased. For the players, i think it's a great game : more character customisation, you don't have that much of bonuses coming from 42 effects, the 3 modes of play are well designed. But for the GM part i think (for now) it's more restrictive that it should be and really hard to come up with something good and balanced.


There are a few things I was trying to learn about creating monsters by just looking through the bestiary, average values and whatnot, and I made a drake that I posted here a few days ago.

I don't think the new system is inherently hard to make creatures, but not all of it is intuitive. For example, I have no idea how skills for monsters is done. Like... none.


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Monster creation rules:

Select what abilities you want your beastie to have.
Figure out what the best modifier for a PC of that level is for each ability the monster has that the PCs wil interact with (AC, saves, skills, etc.)
Determine what numbers you want the monster/PCs to have to roll to succeed.
Add that number to the value of the maxed PC.
Now you have the relevent numbers for your critter.

This is how all of the monsters's stats were derrived. This is why a level 0 goblin with a 14 dex has a +6 to hit and a level 4 barghest has a +10 perception with a 12 wis.


"Figure out what the best modifier for a PC of that level is for each ability the monster has that the PCs wil interact with (AC, saves, skills, etc.)" I don't quite understand what you mean here (my english is not my first language maybe that's the problem ^^")


Mederig Halgand wrote:
"Figure out what the best modifier for a PC of that level is for each ability the monster has that the PCs wil interact with (AC, saves, skills, etc.)" I don't quite understand what you mean here (my english is not my first language maybe that's the problem ^^")

I feel like they're noting a similar mentality to the skill check DCs table?

E.g. "Do I want a 60% success rate per attack, or a 40%?"


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Mederig Halgand wrote:
"Figure out what the best modifier for a PC of that level is for each ability the monster has that the PCs wil interact with (AC, saves, skills, etc.)" I don't quite understand what you mean here (my english is not my first language maybe that's the problem ^^")

It means that if the best attack a level 1 PC can roll (by playing a Strong Human Fighter) is +6, than every level 1 monster also rolls a +6 or more to attack, despite having a lower Ability modifier, being lower level, and having no relevent Equipment or Proficiencies. By around 20th level monsters are built assuming their opponants should have a total bonus of about +35 in every statistic. Which is impossible, as PCs generally only have one +35 statistic by design, with the rest intended to lag around +18 to +30


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thorin001 wrote:

Monster creation rules:

Select what abilities you want your beastie to have.
Figure out what the best modifier for a PC of that level is for each ability the monster has that the PCs wil interact with (AC, saves, skills, etc.)
Determine what numbers you want the monster/PCs to have to roll to succeed.
Add that number to the value of the maxed PC.
Now you have the relevent numbers for your critter.

This is how all of the monsters's stats were derrived. This is why a level 0 goblin with a 14 dex has a +6 to hit and a level 4 barghest has a +10 perception with a 12 wis.

I sincerely hope that in the full version, monsters are not purely arbitrary. Arbitrary abilities that are in theme, sure. Arbitrary stats for fantasy creatures, also sure. But I sincerely hope that there is a way to reverse-engineer the monsters purely from their level and their stats.

Reasons: Monster advancement (especially adding class levels), templates (I only saw Vampire as a true monster-changing template in the bestiary, despite there being werewolf), variant monsters (changing feats and skills around).


james014Aura wrote:
thorin001 wrote:

Monster creation rules:

Select what abilities you want your beastie to have.
Figure out what the best modifier for a PC of that level is for each ability the monster has that the PCs wil interact with (AC, saves, skills, etc.)
Determine what numbers you want the monster/PCs to have to roll to succeed.
Add that number to the value of the maxed PC.
Now you have the relevent numbers for your critter.

This is how all of the monsters's stats were derrived. This is why a level 0 goblin with a 14 dex has a +6 to hit and a level 4 barghest has a +10 perception with a 12 wis.

I sincerely hope that in the full version, monsters are not purely arbitrary. Arbitrary abilities that are in theme, sure. Arbitrary stats for fantasy creatures, also sure. But I sincerely hope that there is a way to reverse-engineer the monsters purely from their level and their stats.

Reasons: Monster advancement (especially adding class levels), templates (I only saw Vampire as a true monster-changing template in the bestiary, despite there being werewolf), variant monsters (changing feats and skills around).

Yeah, some reasonably solid rules would be nice.

I really like the monsters in the playtest rn, but I'd like to build loads quickly. I am curious as to if Elite or Weak are supposed to be able to stack with themselves repeatedly.

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