Too much damage?


Playing the Game

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsbo)

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Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We are pretty early yet but....does it seem to anyone else that auto-confirming criticals are adding a wildly swingy amount of damage to the game?

It really feels to me like the flow of any given battle is a lot less predictable and a lot more likely to go sideways. Enemies intended to present a challenge crumble under the weight of rogue crits (is it intentional that SA damage now doubles on crits?) and speedbump creatures like centipedes now can pose a life-threatening challenge. Seems like it will be hard to present a predictable level of challenge.

What's other peoples experience here?


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I dislike the auto-confirming. Especially for 2nd and third attacks that by chance role a 20. For that reason I might even prefer a flat +10, -10 crit range abolishing the iconic 1 and 20 for success/failure. I don't think that you should crit if you are unable to hit normally.

Weapon abilities such as deadly make criticals really swingy especially with the reduction of static boni in favor of more dice roles.

However I do not think that it necessarily makes combat super swingy, but it certainly can do that especially when players do not consider the new critical rules in character creation. Which puts an emphasis on dex or armor.

Like running around with 11 armor and a low health total will get you killed. Especially with the monsters having higher attack rolls now.

I like that multiple threats like centipedes, especially with their poison, pose a real threat now. On the other hand I would prefer lower attack boni on monsters, such as goblins so that I can throw them in droves at the players.

From experience shields and heavy armor have proven to be very useful, an armorclass of 15-16 or above should be considered for most characters in creation to make sure "standard" threats only crit on a 19-20.

One thing of note is that in most fights players with high static damage boni do not profit from crits, the monsters do so that is a bit odd.


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vestris wrote:
One thing of note is that in most fights players with high static damage boni do not profit from crits, the monsters do so that is a bit odd.

Eh? Why don't they?

Playtest Rulebook page 392 wrote:
How you double damage depends on the effect’s delivery. If the damage comes from an effect with an attack roll, you roll double the normal number of dice and apply all damage modifiers, bonuses, and penalties twice.

Am I missing something?

vestris wrote:
For that reason I might even prefer a flat +10, -10 crit range abolishing the iconic 1 and 20 for success/failure. I don't think that you should crit if you are unable to hit normally.

Agreed. If you're really, really bad you should just fail, even on a 20, and if you're really, really good you should succeed, even on a 1. Bit of a sacred cow though.


Because the monster dies to regular damage. The PC does not, so the monster profits the player not. Not true for all standard encounters but if you think about goblins, centipedes and the like it is very unlikely that you actually need to crit.


vestris wrote:
Because the monster dies to regular damage. The PC does not, so the monster profits the player not. Not true for all standard encounters but if you think about goblins, centipedes and the like it is very unlikely that you actually need to crit.

Ah, yes, overkill. :-)


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vestris wrote:

I dislike the auto-confirming. Especially for 2nd and third attacks that by chance role a 20. For that reason I might even prefer a flat +10, -10 crit range abolishing the iconic 1 and 20 for success/failure. I don't think that you should crit if you are unable to hit normally.

Weapon abilities such as deadly make criticals really swingy especially with the reduction of static boni in favor of more dice roles.

However I do not think that it necessarily makes combat super swingy, but it certainly can do that especially when players do not consider the new critical rules in character creation. Which puts an emphasis on dex or armor.

Like running around with 11 armor and a low health total will get you killed. Especially with the monsters having higher attack rolls now.

I like that multiple threats like centipedes, especially with their poison, pose a real threat now. On the other hand I would prefer lower attack boni on monsters, such as goblins so that I can throw them in droves at the players.

From experience shields and heavy armor have proven to be very useful, an armorclass of 15-16 or above should be considered for most characters in creation to make sure "standard" threats only crit on a 19-20.

One thing of note is that in most fights players with high static damage boni do not profit from crits, the monsters do so that is a bit odd.

So make if you roll 20 and it is not enough for beating AC, it is not a crit, but a normal hit for minimum damage.

Apply the same for natural 1 and enough bonuses to beat AC. Minimum damage also.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

OK. This is confusing. There appears to be 2 conflicting rules listed about nat 20s in the Rulebook.

On page 8:

Quote:
Rolling 20 is better! Rolling a 20 on the die means you critically succeed, which often has a greater effect than normal. You also gain a critical success if your total meets or exceeds the Difficulty Class by 10 or more. More about critical successes is on page 292.
On page 292:
Quote:

Success and Critical Success

If your result is equal to or greater than the DC, you succeed and apply any success effect (or generally achieve what you set out to do). However, if you succeed and rolled a 20 on the die (often called a “natural 20”), or if your result is equal to or greater than the DC plus 10, you critically succeed. You apply the critical success effect instead of the success effect. If the critical success was an attack roll, it is sometimes called a critical hit.


Igor Horvat wrote:
vestris wrote:
...

So make if you roll 20 and it is not enough for beating AC, it is not a crit, but a normal hit for minimum damage.

Apply the same for natural 1 and enough bonuses to beat AC. Minimum damage also.

Sure I could do that, but that is beside the point ;)


vestris wrote:
Igor Horvat wrote:
vestris wrote:
...

So make if you roll 20 and it is not enough for beating AC, it is not a crit, but a normal hit for minimum damage.

Apply the same for natural 1 and enough bonuses to beat AC. Minimum damage also.

Sure I could do that, but that is beside the point ;)

well the nat 20 thing is already the rules. If a 20 wouldn't hit then it's just a hit.


I still think it'd be clearer to say that a natural 20 moves the result up a category (critical fail > fail > success > critical success) and a natural 1 moves it down one.
As I posted before, it's only a minor change to the overall outcomes.


Chess Pwn wrote:
vestris wrote:
Igor Horvat wrote:
vestris wrote:
...

So make if you roll 20 and it is not enough for beating AC, it is not a crit, but a normal hit for minimum damage.

Apply the same for natural 1 and enough bonuses to beat AC. Minimum damage also.

Sure I could do that, but that is beside the point ;)
well the nat 20 thing is already the rules. If a 20 wouldn't hit then it's just a hit.

Apparently that is true which I did not see as it is not phrased that way in every part of the book. The rule could just be so much easier if it would only be tied to the 10 difference instead of having a paragraph that is a couple of sentences long to describe the differences. And there is one for crit successes and and failures each.


For the rest of this playtest, I must find a way to sneak the word boni into every single post.

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