My initial issues with Resonance


General Discussion


Hey everyone,

First and foremost, i want to say i've yet to play second edition and this is just my initial thoughts. I'm DMing my first game tomorrow and playing next weekend so these thoughts are subject to change depending on my experience.

Secondly, I'd also like to praise paizo for the brave changes they've taken in 2E. I know theres a fair bit of negativity right now but i'd like to express how overall i think this a far better version of 5E and with some issue fixing with mechanics like Resonance i think it has great potential.

Okay, so my initial problem with Resonance isn't the mechanic itself, i like how they're trying to stop CLW Wand spamming. the problem i have is i feel they've gone a bit too heavy with resonance.

My main problems being early level Resonance points and Potions. I feel like if i'm already spending money on a potion i should be able to use it how i like and not be as limited to the point were it consumes one of my resonance points. This is especially punishing for alchemists whom already have to use Resonance for their actual class abilities.

I'd like to see how much of a difference 3+Cha+Level instead of 1+Cha+Level would make at a lower level, i'd love for adventuring not to become a 5 minute day.

Equally so, I also feel potions shouldn't use Resonance but if your adamant on this Paizo why not have them enhance the potion instead?

For example lets say a standard healing potion heals 1d6+CL but if you infuse it with 1 point of resonance the dice increases one step giving you 1D8+CL or even add an extra dice on so it's 2D6+CL. that way we can use weaker potions if we are out of resonance or expend one of our vital resonance pool points for a bigger heal.

You'd need to adjust pricing on potions a little bit to compensate for this but i think it would help with the resonance management, especially at a lower level.

Sovereign Court

Hopefully you give it am honest playtest shake. Look forward to hearing how it goes.

Dark Archive

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In you guys opinion what does Resonance add to the game? I see it as another mechanic to track. I can't see it adding to the game. I respectfully disagree with its inclusion in the game. Now that being said. As an optional rule for low magic campaigns i think it would be amazing. Its not too obtrusive or technically challenging to implement. But if were going for a streamlined game, this function appears to me an un needed tracking mechanism. by itself it inst overbearing, but when added with everything else, I can't see where its adding to the game. But i intend on runing many playtests and lets see how folks feel about it.


Honestly, I'm a fan of resonance if only to put in a mechanical reason for charisma for most characters - the same reason I like the new stat generation method. I'm tired of GMing for parties with a max charisma of 9 because it doesn't add to damage lol.


Belthazar wrote:
So I want to point out that potions don’t cost resonance. Elixirs of life and Healing potions are two different items. Alchemists spend resonance to make elixirs but potions don’t have the investiture tag so they only require an interact action to use. Just wanted to clear up this misconception.

If thats the case this makes me feel much better about Resonance. From what i read and what i've seen i was under the idea that it costs a resonance point to use the potions effect.


Xalchs wrote:
Belthazar wrote:
So I want to point out that potions don’t cost resonance. Elixirs of life and Healing potions are two different items. Alchemists spend resonance to make elixirs but potions don’t have the investiture tag so they only require an interact action to use. Just wanted to clear up this misconception.

If thats the case this makes me feel much better about Resonance. From what i read and what i've seen i was under the idea that it costs a resonance point to use the potions effect.

Seems like I missed a rules passage actually. Which changes how my last two games have gone. Apparently activating an item of any kind costs a point even if the item doesn’t have the invest tag. Which means scrolls are supposed to cost two points it seems. I’ve gone 180 in light of this revelation. I agree now, resonance needs some tweaks.


Belthazar wrote:


Seems like I missed a rules passage actually. Which changes how my last two games have gone. Apparently activating an item of any kind costs a point even if the item doesn’t have the invest tag. Which means scrolls are supposed to cost two points it seems. I’ve gone 180 in light of this revelation. I agree now, resonance needs some tweaks.

Ah, i was desperately trying to find confirmation for what you said, but that's a shame.

Since you get points based on your level it's not going to be AS bad at higher levels but the more magical items you gain the more you get taxed.

Bag of holding is one of my bigger gripes, 1RP to open, 1RP to close. 1RP to pull out an item and if that items a potion 1RP to drink, thats 4RP to use a stored item and considering most classes don't have CHA as a base stat... well, you're going to have a hard time during early game


Mr.Nightray wrote:
In you guys opinion what does Resonance add to the game? I see it as another mechanic to track. I can't see it adding to the game. I respectfully disagree with its inclusion in the game. Now that being said. As an optional rule for low magic campaigns i think it would be amazing. Its not too obtrusive or technically challenging to implement. But if were going for a streamlined game, this function appears to me an un needed tracking mechanism. by itself it inst overbearing, but when added with everything else, I can't see where its adding to the game. But i intend on runing many playtests and lets see how folks feel about it.

To my understanding it was to counter the CLW problem Society and quite a few Homebrew games have/had

I'm still a bit eh on it, i like how it makes you invest in your magical items rather than just stacking tons of passives but at the same time i'm torn on it.

Tomorrow and next weekend will give me a better grasp and honestly i'll most likely to an update and add on any additional issues i had.


Belthazar wrote:
Xalchs wrote:
Belthazar wrote:
So I want to point out that potions don’t cost resonance. Elixirs of life and Healing potions are two different items. Alchemists spend resonance to make elixirs but potions don’t have the investiture tag so they only require an interact action to use. Just wanted to clear up this misconception.

If thats the case this makes me feel much better about Resonance. From what i read and what i've seen i was under the idea that it costs a resonance point to use the potions effect.

Seems like I missed a rules passage actually. Which changes how my last two games have gone. Apparently activating an item of any kind costs a point even if the item doesn’t have the invest tag. Which means scrolls are supposed to cost two points it seems. I’ve gone 180 in light of this revelation. I agree now, resonance needs some tweaks.

The easy answer is: Does it have the Operation tag? Uses Resonance.


Mr.Nightray wrote:
In you guys opinion what does Resonance add to the game?

The way I see it, it is a clunky mechanism designed to get rid of a playstyle that is mostly found in organized play but seldom elsewhere. As an optional rule for PFS, I can live with it. As an optional rule for games that like low magic settings, okay, even though clumsy. As an integral part of the game it works mechanically, as far as I can see right now, but sucks the joy out of the game completely.

Resonance and the +1/level to skills are the gamechangers that make PF2 in this playtest form a system I wouldn't buy.

I mean, I can come up with better Ancestral feats for later levels and give the Ancestries 4 Ancestry feats at first level in home games without problems; and I can change the Ability boosts for Goblins to +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha without sweat; Ican simply ignore the nonsensical Exploration and Downtime modes, but the Proficiencies and Resonance in this form are hard to get rid of without drastically changing the mechanics of the game, they are too integral to how the game works and that's the biggest problem of PF2 right there.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Resonance is taking prepared spellcasting and applying it to such fun purposes as: putting on pants, opening bags, patching yourself up, minor magical tricks, lighting up a room, and more.

Every morning, you plan out for the day what you're going to spend your resonance on. X goes to passive gear, Y goes to expected healing/curative needs, and Z goes activatables and consumables.

If your healing needs are higher than others, your Z dwindles in comparison. If you have fewer passives, be prepared to supplement other people's healing. If you want to store stuff in a bag of holding, make sure you're not using that ring of invisibility more than once per day.

Also, don't forget to save some in case you get attacked in the night and need one more healing charge than planned.

In the next couple weeks we're going to see a tier list that shows the optimal choices for resonance spending, and all the neat magical tricks that cost resonance are never again going to see the light of day. That list is going to look something like:

Armor (passive) > ability augmenting items (passive) > healing (active) > damage boosts (passive) > skill boosts (passive) > consumables (active)


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I'm fairly certain that any one activation of a magical item only consumes one resonance, no mater how many action slots it takes to activate it. So scrolls, and potions, etc. should only cost one resonance, even it takes three actions and their reaction in order to trigger the magic item for a single use.


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After months of playing the Playtest and when all is said and the dust settles, our group agreed that Resonance is the worst thing in PF2.

We understood what they tried to achieve but in short
- It does a little to improve OP/guild play
- It does a lot lot more to make home games worse

Not only you are losing time in daily preparation
Not only you are slowing the game (now I have to (remember to) spend one more action to activate my bolts between the action to reload my crossbow and the action to actually shoot)
Not only it doesn't add anything to the game itself, and neither to the roleplay
But it is one more thing to track in between games when you call it a night in real life and you are in a middle of a day (even worse middle of a fight) in the game

I already in PF1 had to track on my character card what I had left in hp, spells, conditions,... all that is still here but now I also have to track what I have left in Spell points, resonance points...

The whole idea of PF2 was to streamline and make if simpler. Resonance is just the opposite.


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Ok, but resonaance was long ago confirmed to be cut from the final product, why are you necro-ing resonance threads?

Really we don't have an up-to-date enough version of PF2 to provide meaningful feedback on many issues such as Resonance since so much is changing without us seeing, and the system was incomplete content-wise anyway.


OMG 5 things to track???


Frencois wrote:

I already in PF1 had to track on my character card what I had left in hp, spells, conditions,... all that is still here but now I also have to track what I have left in Spell points, resonance points...

The whole idea of PF2 was to streamline and make if simpler. Resonance is just the opposite.

Orville Redenbacher wrote:
OMG 5 things to track???

Yes, reducing things to track was the point of resonance.

Spell points (possibly renamed focus points) replace tracking special powers that individually could be used 3 times per day, letting the player track only one resource instead of each individual power.

Resonance was supposed to replace tracking magic items that individually had charges and magic items that occupied magical body slots, letting the player track only one resource instead of each individual set of charges. That one did not work, since potions had to be tracked in inventory anyway, garb such as boots and cloaks occupied physical body slots, and Paizo kept charges on wands and staves.

Frencois, we have long moved on beyond your analysis of resonance. More importantly, Paizo has moved on, too. Read the October 15, 2018, Paizo Blog: The Resonance Test, where Paizo acknowledged the problems with the original resonance and decided to test out a variant. Furthermore, they have moved on from the variant, too, given some remarks in interviews with Jason Bulmahn, but we don't know the full details.


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The thing that is no longer in the game is by far the worst thing about the game!


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My Pathfinder group went to Emerald City Comic Con this past weekend and we got to playtest PF2 without Resonance, and it's a sigh of relief tbh.

Resonance was meant to have less things to keep track of, but it ended up being a band-aid on an artery wound. I'm glad Resonance is gone.

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