A large swath of character classes are literally banned for play in PFS starting from 1st level


Pathfinder Society Playtest


Oh my goodness. As it turns out, a large swath of classes force uncommon rarity options on you, and are thus literally unplayable in Pathfinder Society starting at 1st level.

The only powers (as in, Spell Point powers) in the game that are of common rarity are faerie dust, heal animal, and touch of obedience. For that matter, the inspire courage cantrip is uncommon as well.

Therefore, this means that playing any of the following classes forces you to have an uncommon power or cantrip: all bards, all non-tyranny clerics, all non-animal druids, all monks with a ki pool, all paladins, all non-fey sorcerers, all non-universalist wizards.

Page 10:
"Specific choices, such as class features or backgrounds, might give access to certain uncommon elements.
"The uncommon rarity indicates an element available only to those who have been initiated into a special kind of training, grow up in a certain culture, or come from a particular part of the world. A character can’t take these options by default. Specific choices, such as class features or backgrounds, might give access to certain uncommon elements. The GM can grant any character access to uncommon options if she so chooses. The level (or type of element for those without levels) is marked in red."

At no point do any of the power-granting classes actually state that you gain "access" to the powers, which is the wording used for opening up other uncommon options.

Pathfinder Society playtest creation rules:
"Rules for Building a 1st-Level Playtest Character
"Spells: Choose any spells that have a common rarity. Spells with uncommon and rare rarities are not allowed."

Page 193:
"Powers are a special type of spell."

All of the aforementioned classes cannot be played in Pathfinder Society starting at 1st level. This really should be fixed.


It would be helpful, perhaps, if Paizo was to actually print a rule stating something like, "If one of your class features or feats gives you a spell, you are considered to have access to it."

No such stipulation currently exists.

Paizo could also make all powers and cantrips common. There is very little reason for any power or cantrip in the playtest rulebook to be uncommon.

2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Quote:
Specific choices, such as class features or backgrounds, might give access to certain uncommon elements.

While I dislike the rarity system as an unnecessary waste of print space and complexity that adds no enjoyment to the game, isn't that sentence from page 10 that both you and I quoted sufficient?

I choose the Healing domain. It grants me healer's blessing.

The Healing domain doesn't give me a list of choices, it simply gives me one specific spell power.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Thats not what literally means

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yeah this is a common sense thing.

2/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

See also p. 198:

PF2 Playtest p. 98 wrote:
You can't choose an uncommon or rare spell unless your class or the GM gives you access to it.

Scarab Sages 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Colette Brunel wrote:

It would be helpful, perhaps, if Paizo was to actually print a rule stating something like, "If one of your class features or feats gives you a spell, you are considered to have access to it."

No such stipulation currently exists.

Paizo could also make all powers and cantrips common. There is very little reason for any power or cantrip in the playtest rulebook to be uncommon.

Yup, but Pathfinder Society leadership doesn't learn from past mistakes and continually write rulings that could be strictly read to be limiting.

I would argue however, that the above rule does actually allow class granted uncommon items. It just isn't worded explicitly so.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Organized Play Lead Developer

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Colette Brunel wrote:

Oh my goodness. As it turns out, a large swath of classes force uncommon rarity options on you, and are thus literally unplayable in Pathfinder Society starting at 1st level.

The only powers (as in, Spell Point powers) in the game that are of common rarity are faerie dust, heal animal, and touch of obedience. For that matter, the inspire courage cantrip is uncommon as well.

Therefore, this means that playing any of the following classes forces you to have an uncommon power or cantrip: all bards, all non-tyranny clerics, all non-animal druids, all monks with a ki pool, all paladins, all non-fey sorcerers, all non-universalist wizards.

Page 10:
"Specific choices, such as class features or backgrounds, might give access to certain uncommon elements.
"The uncommon rarity indicates an element available only to those who have been initiated into a special kind of training, grow up in a certain culture, or come from a particular part of the world. A character can’t take these options by default. Specific choices, such as class features or backgrounds, might give access to certain uncommon elements. The GM can grant any character access to uncommon options if she so chooses. The level (or type of element for those without levels) is marked in red."

At no point do any of the power-granting classes actually state that you gain "access" to the powers, which is the wording used for opening up other uncommon options.

Pathfinder Society playtest creation rules:
"Rules for Building a 1st-Level Playtest Character
"Spells: Choose any spells that have a common rarity. Spells with uncommon and rare rarities are not allowed."

Page 193:
"Powers are a special type of spell."

All of the aforementioned classes cannot be played in Pathfinder Society starting at 1st level. This really should be fixed.

Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be. The language in the rules for creating Pathfinder Society Playtest characters aims to limit selecting uncommon and rare spells and items that aren't explicitly provided by one's other abilities, much as how the equipment entry references an elf gaining access to elven uncommon weapons through the Weapon Familiarity ancestry feat. I could see revised text looking something like this.

Quote:
Spells: Choose any spells that have a common rarity. Spells with uncommon or rare rarities are not available unless you gain access to them with a character ability (for example, a sorcerer with the draconic bloodline would still receive the power dragon claws as a bloodline power).

I do not have the capacity to edit my posts, but come tomorrow there should be more folks in the office following Gen Con—among them someone with whom I can coordinate adjusting the text to head off further misunderstandings.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Organized Play Lead Developer

5 people marked this as a favorite.

A colleague has helpfully edited my post, providing the clarification above.

To reiterate an earlier point: while clarity of language is important to Paizo, the key push for the playtest is to get out and test the material. That means nearly all of the material in the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook is available for use by anybody, following standard character-building methodologies. If you think you see a small linguistic glitch in how we've worded an announcement, start with the assumption that we're not trying to limit your playtest experience or character choices. Then bring it up, if you like. Just kindly do so in a non-hyperbolic fashion so that we can suss out a solution.


How exactly does this interact with the 5th- and 10th-level character creation guidelines?

Quote:
Rarity: Your character may select one character option—a piece of equipment, a magic item, or a spell—that has the uncommon rarity. Any spell must appear on your class’s spell list; for example, a wizard cannot learn a bard’s inspire courage composition spell or a cleric’s fire ray domain spell, but he could learn nondetection.

Suppose I am creating an evocation specialist wizard. Does force bolt consume my one and only uncommon option slot? Similarly, suppose I am creating a goblin character. Does selecting Weapon Familiarity (Goblin) and wielding a dogslicer likewise occupy my one and only uncommon option slot?

3/5

No. The Rarity line is giving you access to something you wouldn't otherwise have access to. If your class or ancestry gives you access to an uncommon item, it doesn't count against your rarity limit.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Organized Play Lead Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Colette Brunel wrote:

How exactly does this interact with the 5th- and 10th-level character creation guidelines?

Suppose I am creating an evocation specialist wizard. Does force bolt consume my one and only uncommon option slot? Similarly, suppose I am creating a goblin character. Does selecting Weapon Familiarity (Goblin) and wielding a dogslicer likewise occupy my one and only uncommon option slot?

GM OfAnything wrote:
No. The Rarity line is giving you access to something you wouldn't otherwise have access to. If your class or ancestry gives you access to an uncommon item, it doesn't count against your rarity limit.

GM ofAnything's response is accurate.

Does your class, ancestry, feat, or other option grant you special access to something that's uncommon or rare? Great, that doesn't count against your limit. Do you want to purchase that ring of wizardry that would otherwise be inaccessible? Okay, you could use your one uncommon item "slot" for that.

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