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I am surprised that the 2e playtest still sports all this convoluted way to calculate the final bonus/malus of a check:
Skill modifier = ability modifier + proficiency modifier + circumstance bonus + conditional bonus + item bonus +
circumstance penalty + conditional penalty + item penalty + untyped penalties
This is one the the things we really wished to go away from Patfhinder first edition. Too much time in a session is wasted to remember or address each and every single one of these. I'm not saying to oversimplify everything with ADV/DISADV like 5e, but we should definitely make this easier and more straightforward. This would appeal especially to new players.
In reality, it's just 3 modifiers, since proficency and ability don't change often...
1) Circunstance are the bread and butter, they vary beetween -4 to +4 and they DON'T STACK. This is important since you will only keeping track of the bigger value (+ and -)
2) Conditions only come in play if you have a condition, and they are simple like Stupified 2 (so you just know what the value is). If it's not in this format the modifier is a Circumstance modifier
3) Item modifier come from items and some spells, just a little bookeping for your items and spells...
So nothing like, dodge, circumstance, morale, untyped, ench... and etc
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i cannot scream this more than enough: LESS MODIFIERS PLS!!!!
That's because you're thinking about it poorly.
Mod = Stat + prof + biggest condition and biggest condition that helps - biggest condition and biggest circumstance that hurts + items.
So since Stat, prof, and items are originating from your character and don't change frequently, those should be immediately written on your sheet. Everything else is a matter of the current events in the game which shouldn't be too much most of the time. The equation just looks more bloated than it is in practice which is usually character stats + event bonus - event penalty.
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Dear lord no, I am mourning the loss of the modifiers here, don't reduce it any further - it's pared to the bone as it is.
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No it's not, not even close.
The time players or GMs have to mull about whether to apply this or that takes time to the game. Game needs to be smooth, it's not acceptable that every skill check calls up for such a list of whether this modifier applied or not, it really needs to be simpler. I would still add an optional rule to add them if you want, but I believe the bare game needs to be stripped of unnecessary complications and just maximize throughput in terms of gaming time.
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I'm not saying to oversimplify everything with ADV/DISADV like 5e,
Except you are.
As has been pointed out, proficiency, stat, and item modifiers hardly ever change. (and also exist in 5th Ed as far as I'm aware)
You're asking for the three remaining things which are basically
Did I use an ability?
Is there a spell affecting me?
and
Am I affected by a negative condition?
to be reduced even further than they already have been, at which point why not just revert to having Adv/DisAdv and having it be +2/-2 to the roll? (since none of those 3 modifiers are likely to be more than +2 or -2)
Nope, I said to simplify not oversimplify and yes 5e current strength is indeed how the game runs smooth without constantly musing bonuses and maluses. PF2e can be more tactical, but too many rules will scare people away.
In 5e there is only ability and talents modifiers, which is flat and always applies so they are easy to remember, the rest is handled by the DC and ADV/DISADV.
Also you cannot sum up circumstance and conditionals just with spells and conditions. Circumstance is very generic and can apply to most situations. But it's redundant to how the GM sets the DC, as the DC should take care of the circumstance already.
Example:
If I try to listen to what people are saying beyond a closed door as a GM I can decide that it's a DC of 15 on the check, but maybe lower if there is no background noise and higher if there is music or racket/ruckus instead. The DC is all you need.
What if somebody is helping you? Aid is pretty much useless in PF2e as multiple checks are always better vs +2 circumstance bonus since skills scale with level, so even an untrained can have high bonuses, while in d&d Aid gives ADV so it's much better to aid a skilled PC rather than checking on your own.
It gets worse at high levels when all players have high 15+ bonuses to ALL skill checks due to +1/lvl growth. At that point you either scale the DC with level (which makes no sense as a task can be hard or easy, it does not scale) or you have to gatelock the tests by sayin "no only trained or experts upward can roll on this check"
So this in the end this system is not simpler than 1st edition, scale worse and makes the GM works more to determine the DCs and gatelocks of checks
Example:
If I try to listen to what people are saying beyond a closed door as a GM I can decide that it's a DC of 15 on the check, but maybe lower if there is no background noise and higher if there is music or racket/ruckus instead. The DC is all you need.What if somebody is helping you? Aid is pretty much useless in PF2e as multiple checks are always better vs +2 circumstance bonus since skills scale with level, so even an untrained can have high bonuses, while in d&d Aid gives ADV so it's much better to aid a skilled PC rather than checking on your own.
It gets worse at high levels when all players have high 15+ bonuses to ALL skill checks due to +1/lvl growth. At that point you either scale the DC with level (which makes no sense as a task can be hard or easy, it does not scale) or you have to gatelock the tests by sayin "no only trained or experts upward can roll on this check"
Or you play the game as intended and let the PCs succeed at something they should be able to succeed at.
EDIT: Also 5e has most of the same types of bonuses: Proficiency, Ability Modifier, Item Bonus (like magic weapons), Conditional Bonuses/Penalties (like bless, guidance, bane), and circumstance bonuses/penalties (handled quite elegantly in 5e by advantage or disadvantage)