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Guys, the 21st century called. There's only one country on the planet that still uses Fahrenheit*, and I hope they're growing out of it. I'm old enough (50s) to understand this antediluvian concept, but my kids have never heard of it. I'm quite happy with feet, inches, pounds, rods, chains, perches, furlongs and barleycorns, but F went out with Queen Victoria.
I'm guessing that the proofreaders didn't understand F either, or they'd have spotted that the hot climate rules are silly.
If you insist on using F, at least put in some C units as well for the rest of the planet. Thank you.
* I had to think a while to even remember how to spell it.
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Well you know what they say: There are two types of countries in the world - those that use Celsius, and those that have been to the moon.
Google does a great job of translating either direction as well.
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There are five countries that use Fahrenheit. Five and half if you count Britain.
Also, Fahrenheit fits the setting better. Just as Metric fits a scifi better.
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Also, Fahrenheit fits the setting better.
how so? there is nothing particularly archaic about it, it is just impractical to use
how so? there is nothing particularly archaic about it, it is just impractical to use
Also, Fahrenheit fits the setting better.
Older than metric. Its the messier more organic nature that makes it fit with a fantasy better. Also, since you're not actually traveling nor sharing results between different groups scientists, how does its impracticality actually affect you?
Older than metric. Its the messier more organic nature that makes it fit with a fantasy better. Also, since you're not actually traveling nor sharing results between different groups scientists, how does its impracticality actually affect you?how so? there is nothing particularly archaic about it, it is just impractical to use
Also, Fahrenheit fits the setting better.Only older by 18 years.
Its impracticality affects us because it's completely unintuitive to anyone outside of the US.
One good thing came out of this and it explains my bafflement at this argument that regularly mushrooms on these forums. I switch between the two without thinking about it. Never realized that.
Thanks for that.
I'm just going to call this whole thing a wash. Gave fun.
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Didn't we have a metric/imperial squabble during the Starfinder build-up?
Why yes, yes we did!
Monsieur Sutter, in December of 2016:
*Okay, maybe that's not the reason. :) The actual reason is that we want the game to be as compatible with Pathfinder as possible, and since Pathfinder is already in the imperial system, and the bulk of our audience remains in North America, it was easier to just stick with what we're used to.
The imperial system is undeniably stupid. But it's ours.
*waves American flag*
*eagle screams*
So, essentially... what the Polish bag of fangs said.
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Additionally, the biggest Yurpeen languages have their own translations of PF/SF, where they use metric. This leaves a very small slice of the market, far too small to bother with additional wordcount for dual measurements.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love m/C/kg. But I can see why it won't ever happen.
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The actual reason is that we want the game to be as compatible with Pathfinder as possible, and since Pathfinder is already in the imperial system...
while this made sense, kinda, for Starfinder (until the game dropped and was not compatible at all), PF2 is NOT designed to resemble PF in any form or shape.
The actual reason is that we want the game to be as compatible with Pathfinder as possible, and since Pathfinder is already in the imperial system...while this made sense, kinda, for Starfinder (until the game dropped and was not compatible at all), PF2 is NOT designed to resemble PF in any form or shape.
Far more relevant is this part:
[A]nd the bulk of our audience remains in North America, it was easier to just stick with what we're used to.
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Far more relevant is this part:
yes, but that's the part I deliberatly excluded
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Fareinheit was a 17th century German physicist. Celcius was a swedish 18th century physicist.
Really we need a Golarion-specific scale named after the old Alchemist from Absalom that first discovered how to measure temperature.
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that would be the famous Dwarf Glokbeard Burntfinger.
The B° scale goes from My Finger Froze! to Aaaaah, I'm Burning!
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Fareinheit was a 17th century German physicist. Celcius was a swedish 18th century physicist.
Really we need a Golarion-specific scale named after the old Alchemist from Absalom that first discovered how to measure temperature.
And we need to quit using "T-rex" and go with "Shardtooth Tyrant" becasue Golarion doesn't have Latin. ;-)
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After twenty years of playing and GM'ing roleplaying, I still have not foggiest idea how Fahrenheit works and always have to look up a calculator. I fully support losing his antediluvian concept.
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I prefer my fantasy in feet, inches and pounds. But Fahrenheit still confuses the hell out of me. Don't remove it, just give C in brackets as well.
I use the metric system, but I think at least feet are useful for easy calculations. Multiply the amount of squares with 5, that's your distance. If we want to keep the same general distance, a square would be roughly 1.5 metres. An easier way would be to redefine what a "square" would be to 2 metres for easier calculations.
Maybe it's just a matter of habituation, but I vastly prefer the nice and round numbers of feet over metres. "My movement speed is 30 foot" or "my movement speed is 12 metres" just reads a lot nicer. Also, longer distances are easier calculated this way, especially if you're at a slower speed. Say you have 20 feet/8 metres of movement. 140 feet = 7 movements, easy. 56 metres is not as easily calculated. Dividing by 8 is weird. On the other hand, if you reduce the average movement speed to 5 squares, that's 10 metres exactly. That's even easier to calculate. I'm not sure which would ruffle more feathers, changing to metric, or changing movement speed to 5 squares. 3 of the 6 races now (in 2E) have 5 squares of movement, but armour and medium load obviously change that.
Not sure why Fahrenheit would be confusing. But it might be better to use no metrics. Just have super cold, cold, cool, comfortable, warm, hot, super hot. The game shouldn’t need much more than that.
Not sure why Fahrenheit would be confusing.
Because in order to know whether a given temperature in Fahrenheit is hot or cold, you have to subtract thirty-two, then multiply by five ninths. (Unless you grew up using it.)
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Not sure why Fahrenheit would be confusing.Because in order to know whether a given temperature in Fahrenheit is hot or cold, you have to subtract thirty-two, then multiply by five ninths. (Unless you grew up using it.)
100 feels hot and 50 feels cold is probably all you need to know.
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Not sure why Fahrenheit would be confusing.
because when you read descriptions like "The nights during this time of the year are chilly and cold, with temperatures not higher than 30°" your first instinct is to go "Huh? That's a damn hot night!"
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About 4% of the world's population uses Fahrenheit. Everyone else uses Celsius.
Fahrenheit is also super confusing for anyone who's not used to it! (thats 96% of the planet).
From wikipedia: the defining point, 0 °F, was established as the temperature of a solution of brine made from equal parts of ice, water and salt (ammonium chloride)
That's something we're all familiar with right? Happens to me every day.
Meanwhile water freezes at 32F. And boils at 212F. Totally random numbers unless you grew up with them!
0 centigrade = freezing and 100 centigrade = boiling is a lot easy to remember.
Not sure why Fahrenheit would be confusing. But it might be better to use no metrics. Just have super cold, cold, cool, comfortable, warm, hot, super hot. The game shouldn’t need much more than that.
This, so much. I know Pathfinder likes its exact numbers, but just dividing into several broad categories is a lot easier than assigning arbitrary numbers. Gives GMs also a lot more leeway for determining how hot they want it to be for certain things.
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Guys, the 21st century called. There's only one country on the planet that still uses Fahrenheit*, and I hope they're growing out of it.
False. 5 countries still use Fahrenheit and the main one you're referring to isn't growing out of it anytime soon. Scientific or engineering applications might use other scales, but for the average person they're all use °F.
And since the game is primarily for the American market, it's not going to switch anytime soon.
I do however agree with the idea of remove units altogether and just have their own scale for PF that is basically what Melkiador suggests. Just like no one really needs for squares to be 5 ft x 5ft or 1.5m x 1.5m, you can just say squares or cubes with an understanding of what those sizes are based on whatever size your group chooses to represent it as (with the understanding that medium creatures occupy 1 cube).
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I'm from the one silly country. As infrequently as I need temperatures, I'd be okay with the information being presented in C. That said, if the layout can stand a few extra characters, they could list both temps (0C/32F) and I would be equally happy.
EDIT: You could even mix this into Golarion Lore. Perhaps Taldor still uses F, while the rest uses C. :)
EDIT 2: OMG, don't invent a new Golarion standard. I was ready to mutiny over the change from weight to Bulk. Change from real-world temps too and I'll stage a coup or something. :)
About 4% of the world's population uses Fahrenheit. Everyone else uses Celsius.
Fahrenheit is also super confusing for anyone who's not used to it! (thats 96% of the planet).
Most of that 96% will never play this game in the English language.
Meanwhile water freezes at 32F. And boils at 212F. Totally random numbers unless you grew up with them!
0 centigrade = freezing and 100 centigrade = boiling is a lot easy to remember.
The freezing and boiling points of water are themselves completely arbitrary. And subject to change based on barometric pressure. Why would either of those values matter to our fantasy characters. I don't think thermometers even exist. The weather is either too cold or too hot. Everything else is just fluff.
Most of that 96% will never play this game in the English language.
Don't be so doom and gloom. I'm sure SOMEONE will eventually pick up a copy of PF2. It might not be me, it might not be you, but different people have different tastes
About 4% of the world's population uses Fahrenheit. Everyone else uses Celsius.
Fahrenheit is also super confusing for anyone who's not used to it! (thats 96% of the planet).
Most of that 96% will never play this game in the English language.
Non-English RPG books are printed in miniscule amounts and with huge delays, and online SRD resources are only available in English. The vast majority of 96% is looking up the rules and adventures in English, even if they use their own language during play.
100 feels hot and 50 feels cold is probably all you need to know.
PUNY SOUTHLANDERS! 50 is convertible weather!
If it's hotter outside your body than inside, that's not just "feels hot", that's extreme heat as far as I'm concerned.