Doomsday Dawn Part 1 Player Feedback


Doomsday Dawn Player Feedback

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I just finished playing Doomsday Dawn 1 (The Lost Star) and as the Survey is not online (yet) available, here is my feedback.

Party Composition:

Spoiler:
Goblin Rogue (meele) (me)
Druid (Animal Companion)
Cleric (meele focused Cleric)
Fighter (Archer)

We finished the adventure in around 6 hours (real time) and 2 days (ingame time). The combats all felt very random and disappointing, there was no real difference in the to hit between the characters so it only mattered if we rolled good. (The druid and cleric had a +4, the rogue had a +5 and the fighter a +6) The actions of all characters were also the same as most rounds were Stride/Strike/Strike or Strike/Strike/Strike, with only the druid deviating as he used mostly Stride/Strike/Command or Cast or heal Animal/Command. So all classes played the same and there was no noticeable difference. This carried over to the skills where there was no notable difference between the characters, as all had skillboni between -2 and +5 (and the skills the characters rolled were in between +3 and +5)

All the casters complained about that they had far too few spells, especially as taking a healing option felt forced as there is not a real option to buy healing at this level. Even with 2 characters capable of healing someone went down in every encounter (except in A3 and A10)[in total we had at least 10 cases of players down]. The characters felt extremely fragile as nearly all enemies hit us on a 10 or 11, with a lot of them hitting even better. The worst experience had the druid whose animal companion had a 25% chance to be critted by the initial encounter and be instantly downed by it (which happened).

This was not helped with the fact that nearly every encounter was a bottleneck encounter as there was next to no room to maneuver.

The consensus was that the experience was far worse than the low level experinece in Pathfinder 1 (and this comes from a player who does not really like low level Pathfinder 1)

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After thinking about it for a night (and reading the Module to GM it) I can see a glaring problem:

The enemy to hit is too high.

It seems like they used the same formula for starfinder (enemies hit very good) but they forgot to also lower their defenses to compensate it. The biggest offender was the goblin commando encounter, the enemies are having a BETTER to hit than any character could possibly achieve but their defense is also comparable. So it realy feels like the odds are stacked against the PCs.

The best AC we had was a 18 (from the fighter) and he was hit on AT LEAST a 12 from every enemy in the whole dungeon, the animal companion with its 12 AC had it worse as everything could CRIT it at least on a 16, some enemies even on a 12 (one enemy in its best turn even on a 10). Maybe a solution would be to drop the enemy to hit down a bit as with the current numbers there is never a reason NOT to triple attack if you have the chance to it.

Grand Lodge

Your experience matches up with mine; The main difference being that we didn't have a cleric and our bard didn't want to be forced to take a healing spell, so we TPK'd to the Faceless Stalker and Giant Rat Fight.

Party Composition:

Human Monk (me)
Halfling Rogue
Human Fighter
Goblin Bard

As high as the enemy to hit bonus is compared to PCs, you pretty much have to bring a cleric along or you're going to die.

I'll be running through it again with a different group that has a cleric on Thursday and will probably make a post comparing the two runs.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I've run through part 1 of Doomsday Dawn twice now with two different groups (and I would love to put in feedback but, alas, the surveys aren't online yet...).

Both groups had fun and managed to get through the encounters quite well. There were some serious HP drops but everything was fun and exciting.

And then both parties walked into the encounter with Drakus and (effectively) TPKed. One party didn't even make it into the room while Drakus just cut them down one by one. We've been poring over his stat block to figure out what is supposed to be his weak spot but he just doesn't have any. High AC, high attack, high damage, high saves...

The only explanation we have, really, is that paizo put him in to get a decent sample size of feedback on the dying rules.

We'll try again soon with different characters but other than through a string of lucky dice rolls, I don't really see how this encounter can go any other way.


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Nullpunkt wrote:

And then both parties walked into the encounter with Drakus and (effectively) TPKed. One party didn't even make it into the room while Drakus just cut them down one by one. We've been poring over his stat block to figure out what is supposed to be his weak spot but he just doesn't have any. High AC, high attack, high damage, high saves...

That is mostly my bad experience with this iteration of the rules. With +level on everything also for monsters, high level boss have no weakness. This means, there really is no room to strategize. whatever you do, you are still praying RNJesus for a good/bad roll to make it work.

This Edition is basically a massive nerf to the application of players intelligence to solve combats. I'm hating it.


Not sure if my group has fully finished the encounter but we killed Drakis.

Party
Goblin Barbarian
Halfling Druid
Elven Rogue
Human Wizard

Can't comment on the Goblin fight as we had a Goblin in our group(myself) roll a nat 20 on a diplomacy check to avoid the fight.

The Centipedes were only easy because we created a choke point for them accidentally. This fight would have been have felt more balanced if we were out in the open.

The Quasits were just too strong though. They were incredibly hard to hit, had a really high two hit as well as a lot of skills that made them annoying. The poison itself is pretty lethal and forced our first downtime (before the Centipedes).

Drakus... was rough. We started the fight with our Goblin Barbarian breaking down the door. Drakus fortunately missed his first few swipes but hit his AoO as the Goblin retreated into the hall way. We had a bit of positioning snaffu where the druid wouldn't see Drakus around the corner so it made him take a bit less damage. Our rolls were also really low. We beat it with the Goblin on Dying 3 one turn away from Dying 4 before a medicine check stabilized him.

Our DM forgot to apply Sneak attack to the grabbed attacks.

I think he was pretty imbalanced for a level 1 encounter, if our DM remembered sneak attack the fight would have been a lot worse then what it was. The rat just made things even more annoying but the choke helped us deal with that.We had a lot of bad rolls though so I think without Sneak attack and AoO it would have been a balanced level 1 fight.

The dying rule felt very very bad. Having to beat a 16 with only a +3 felt nearly impossible. No idea how to make it better.

We still haven't found the treasure yet, so trying not to spoil that but overall it felt a bit overtuned, but maybe that was intentional.


Our Party:

Human Barbarian (Animal Totem)
Human Cleric (Melee Focused)
Human Sorcerer (Imperial Bloodline)
Half-Orc Ranger (Animal Companion)

Our group found the adventure both fun and challenging at the same time. We had minor issues with the system itself so far, and most things felt balanced. We finished the playthrough in about 4 and a half hours.

The ooze was a fairly simple fight with no complications. The first goblin fight was quite easy as well. The Cleric was able to successfully tank some hits (using his raised shield and his reaction to shield block). The barbarian, sorcerer, and ranger were all able to contribute to the fight in significant way also (mainly in the area of pure damage).We were caught by surprise against the centipedes and suffered minor damage, which the Cleric was able to heal with some Channel Energy.We successfully perceived and identified the fungus hazard, and dismantled it with ranged fire cantrips.

The Cleric (who is a worshiper of Iomedae), identified the shrine and the Waters of Lamashtu with a Religion check, and wanted to disable the fountain. The Quasit fight took us by surprise and we suffered some major poison damage but we managed to burn some more healing, and pull through (even with their healing). The Cleric and the Barbarian also successfully destroyed the fountain itself.

Against Draxus, we were able to enter the fight with full health after the barbarian used some potions that she purchased with her starting gold. The Sorcerer immediately dispatched the rat with a 3 action use of magic missile (first non-cantrip she used). We took some attacks of opportunity when we tried to position ourselves in flanking positions but it paid off in the end as our Barbarian and the Ranger's bear were able to reliably hit him. Our Ranger did end up with Dying 1 in the fight but the Cleric was able to immediately use Stabilize on his turn to prevent any further trouble. We then used our last potions to give the Ranger and Barbarian as much health as possible before the end of the dungeon.

The Sorcerer spent an hour identifying a scroll they had found while the others rested. The Cleric ended up cleaning the shrine while he waited which the players were rewarded for. The party decided to leave the items (book, bowl, and dagger) on the dais as they felt it would be wrong to take from the temple.

The only fight we had major difficulty in was the cave of goblins that included the spellcaster. The Ranger hung towards the back for most of the fight, using his animal companion to assist the rest of the party in the battle. Our Barbarian and Cleric were knocked down by a Grease spell and quickly overwhelmed by multiple attacks of the Goblins. The Barbarian went to dying, made her save but then was immediately struck down on the following turn. She then went to Dying 2 before she used her Hero Point to recover. The Sorcerer was able to position herself towards the side of the enemies to release a super effective burning hands (the 2nd of her 1st level spells). This helped turn the tide as the Barbarian and Cleric were able to freely move out of the grease (after most of the lackey goblins were killed). They then moved on the goblin with the horsechopper and the caster and were able to finish them off within a turn.

Overall, we all enjoyed both the session and our characters. The Cleric (who usually plays some form of Healer) was super satisfied with his capacity to assist and heal his allies, and found the Weapon Surge domain ability quite useful when facing some of the tougher enemies in the dungeon. The Sorcerer made good use of her cantrips, and also engaged in melee if she needed to (she took the weapon proficiency general feat from being a human), both the ranger and his animal companion were effective throughout every combat in the dungeon, and the barbarian was able to be a very effective striker for the party as well.

So far so good, looking forward to see in anything changes when we mix up our classes/races etc. for the next module.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I am very impressed that you managed to beat Drakus. Would you mind walking me through that battle? Did you enter through the door by the statue or through the secret entrance? Who won initiative? How lucky/poor were his rolls and the once of the party?


My group personally created a choke point in the hallway with the statue. and just whittled away at him while he (nearly) killed our goblin. We honestly got really unlucky on a lot of rolls but not many criticals just a lot of low attack rolls on our end. We were full health with one Heal cast left. We also didn't use Hero points at all.

Grand Lodge

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Lavieh wrote:

Can't comment on the Goblin fight as we had a Goblin in our group(myself) roll a nat 20 on a diplomacy check to avoid the fight.

You specifically cannot use diplomacy on the goblins as long as Drakus lives. I'd hazard a guess the Drakus fight would've went a lot different for you had you fought that extra combat and the GM had remembered to give Drakus his Sneak Attack damage.

The Lost Star wrote:

Goblins: The Mudchewer goblins who remain loyal to

Drakus are no friends of Talga, and she understands they
will need to be fought and perhaps killed by the PCs. She
suspects (correctly) that as long as Drakus lives, diplomacy
is not an option in dealing with the goblins.
Aidan Winlaw wrote:
Against Draxus, we were able to enter the fight with full health after the barbarian used some potions that she purchased with her starting gold.
You actually can't buy potions to start as of the playtest rules. I'm betting this is a significant reason why the fight went so much better for you.
The Lost Star wrote:

PURCHASING GEAR

The PCs begin with 150 sp each. They
can purchase any common gear found
in Chapter 6 of the Pathfinder Playtest
Rulebook, along with any other options
they gain access to from their class and
feat selections.


The group I participated in did not have too hard of a time with the initial encounter. We had 2 goblins that took the other two member of the party as prisoners to sacrifice to the other goblins and used "role playing" to circumvent the first goblin encounter and headed straight to the boss.

We found that the goblins with the Boss hit very hard and took out our Paladin of the group. I the cleric was able to keep him alive by healing him. I find that the channeling is comparable to first edition pathfinder but I felt like i was limited to only swinging my sword around and hoping I was going to hit something.

I feel the spell casters are hindered from participating much in combat due to the lack of spells and even good offensive cantrips. The Cleric having only 1 offensive cantrip. During Character creation our wizard or sorcerer of the group had to pick schools of spells and had to go through every spell in the book to see what school it belongs to instead of using the short title list for that class of spells.I found it was fairly simple to create character using the new way to choose ability scores.


I guess our GM missed that detail, regardless we had to rest after the quasit fight and the sneak attack would have just killed one person and we most likely still would have beaten drakus. He only missed its damage on one roll and would have had to roll a 3+ for it to have made a difference.


Aah. I did think it was strange that he had potions to start with. Not sure how much the fight would have changed. The Cleric (me) probably wouldn’t have used Channel Energy against the Undead that we fought and saved to exclusively for healing if the Barbarian didn’t have the potions because we then wouldn’t have any other way to heal. I would have probably just used Disrupt Undead instead.

As for the fight itself both the Barbarian rolled high (like he usually does) [pretty sure hit even hit some of his iterative attacks] and the Ranger and the Sorcerer rolled decently. The Cleric rolled pretty bad for initiative and then failed the one attack he tried, even after casting Magic Weapon at the start of combat and then using Weapon Surge which was sad, he was also keep the flank guarded as they traversed the dungeon and then had his movement penalty from armor so it took him a while to get into the room anyway (all he successfully did in the fight was stabilize the Ranger when he went down).

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Our party composition

Goblin dragon-bloodlined sorcerer
Human paladin of Iomedae (using shield blocks and retributive strikes makes the build a good tank!)
Elf alchemist
Dwarf druid (wild order)

Spoiler:

We dealt with the frustrating ooze encounter at start (frustrating because oozes are immune to critical hits, and they roll a lot: when you crit, and it doesn’t count, it is no fun really. Cutting throgh the ooze's high hit points takes lots of time, but we saved the good spells and bombs for later fights. We proceeded with bull’s eye lantern in hand and noisy armor on our pala, so no stealth (but really, all people who have been crying on forums about goblins shooting from the darkness unseen or concealed! Use this 60-foot cone source of light, it is your life saver in these cramped dungeons!). The alchemist played elf-way (shooting her shortbow) and used no quick alchemy.

Goblins in the first room drained us of resources a bit, alchemist had to spend some quick alchemy on heals, druid used a heal spell, the paladin used one of the lay on hands abilities and used the might domain power for temporary movement boost. The best damage dealer was the druid with the electric arc cantrip: the sorcerer hurling produce flame was crying from envy all the time.

Next was the fountain and quasit room. Quasits are serious business for 1st level groups because of their poison; when they flanked our paladin, they managed to drop her to 0 hp (she spent her hero point to survive). Note that this is the type of encounter where shield blocking works best: quasits are too weak to dent the shield, and their poison does nothing then! Also, this is a fight where you love having magic missiles: a 3-action magic missile is a boss (or quasit) nuker for the 1st-level group: always hits, strikes from distance etc.

After this fight we healed up, found ourselves out of resources and left to have a day’s rest to replentish. Then came back to continue, moved to the east door, happily bumped into the noisy trap and on to the goblin main room full of alerted goblins - and into the next trap of cause (it rolled low on damage, and we had some good saves). Again, the bull’s lantern solved the human eyesight problem, so the main danger in this room proved to be the goblin pyro with his burning hands spells (some good rolls for damage, some help from goblin archers - and our alchemists has 0 hit points and spends her hero point this time). The paladin along with our cantrip hurlers (they saved their real spells for later) felled the goblins yet suffered some hits, so we ended up low on healing resources again. Went back to the fountain to heal a bit, then back.

We successfully found the secret passage and got to Drakus through his bedroom, avoiding the trapped chest - so no surprise attack on his side. Still, the Drakus fight is tough, he has high to-hit bonuses (if our pala were not that tanky with her shield raised, we could have more nasty criticals against us), and can use opportunity attacks (nasty news for our sorcerer! But he survived the hit at least). The fight took several rounds, included flanking tactics for the paladin and the druid, a broken shield for the druid, and use of 2 magic missiles for the sorcerer (boss nuker spell, I keep telling, after you position to spend 3 actions on it). Alchemist proved to be the least useful member of the group: she entangled Drakus with a tanglefoot bag, but the entangled condition proved to be too weak to matter. Then again, shooting arrows and hoping for the best. No one got down, but the paladin and the druid were both close. We won.

Summary: new martial options (such as shield use) rock, you really need to avoid strike-strike-strike gambling, for in most cases there are better uses for your actions; good perception and smart use of mundane equipment still pays off great at low levels at least - everything I like and expect from a dungeon crawl play. Alchemists need more love though.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Our party actually did beat the faceless stalker, although the barbarian got to test the new dying rules in round 1 and the druid almost died to a rat.

I'm not sure how the adventure is written for the GM, I haven't read it, but the only reason we survived was because of that healing water after the quasit fight. Otherwise we would've entered that boss fight all at less than half health, and the full health barbarian got crit on twice in round 1(not natural 20s either) so that would've been bad for all of us.

We did skip the centipede fight because one of the other players is terrified of centipedes and the GM wasn't aware of that ahead of time so he didn't have time to do what I do, and that's put pictures of snakes instead and name them "pretend he got legs". Also on the first goblin fight, I was able to bluff them first to get a better position, so that was fun.

All in all, I'm not actually sure how I feel about it so far. We're going to be playing again in maybe 2 weeks when we finally have the time together, so until then I'll be looking at rolling more characters and maybe mock fighting friends. The Drakis fight was pretty tough but teamwork or whatever saves the day I guess. Would've liked more open area fights, everything felt cramped.

Our party was
Goblin Rogue[me]
Halfling Druid[who rolled the most 20s]
Gnome Sorcerer
Dwarf Barbarian


So my group played through this last night. We had very little trouble with most of the encounters, but that was more to do with our party composition than any basis in the encounters.

Goblin Wizard with crowd control spells
Human Wizard with melee specialization
Dwarf Barbarian
Human Cleric
Human Fighter with a shield

The first fight with the slime, and then the following fight with the goblins were both fairly easily cleared with front to back battle lines and some smart crowd control.
The encounter with the centipedes... was not. The cramped quarters meant that lines of sight were impossible for the wizards, so the front line got swarmed, and that's where we found out about the high lethality of the adventure packet.
The centipedes had an average hit rate of just around 65%, which, combined with the poison, meant that most of the party was poisoned and near 0 HP at some point. (3 or less HP, for reference.)
The goblin ambush in the room with the fire, in comparison, was easy...
Because the goblin wizard cast Sleep on half the ambush before combat rolls.
Similarly, the encounter with the Faceless Stalker was easy because both wizards had Magic Missile prepared; 6d4+6 damage is not to be scoffed at, at such a low level.

So yes, party composition and spell selection carried the day by outright negating most of the encounters.

That being said, my thoughts on the edition are fairly straightforward.
1st thought: The monsters being able to out-stat players of the same level isn't necessarily a bad idea, if the monster in question is meant to be huge and intimidating. When a basic Goblin does, though, is when it turns into a problem. Goblins should be scary because of numbers, not because one goblin deals an average of 7 damage in a round. And that's just one example.
2nd thought: The skill system is a mess. I can see what's being attempted, but it punishes anyone who wants to pick up a bunch of different skills by minimizing skill progression and locking the most interesting flavors behind Signature Skills. Simultaneously, it also reduces the feeling of "I am actually advancing in skill" because everyone gets a base +1 to all skills every level, which the monsters also get. It just feels like a case of 'bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers' because, statistically, everything remains roughly the same. Literally could do away with the redundant +1/level entirely, and instead unlock level related effects like spell level as the player reaches the appropriate level. It'd feel less like number bloat.
3rd thought: The 3 actions per round felt sleek and interesting, and it's different in an exciting way. I actually enjoyed it alot, especially because it adds a different dimension to tactical thinking beyond the standard "move and attack or full attack?"

Edit: Also the Shield rules caused a lot of confusion, such as in regards to the Centipede poison, and the Denting rules.


Okibruez wrote:

So my group played through this last night. We had very little trouble with most of the encounters, but that was more to do with our party composition than any basis in the encounters.

Goblin Wizard with crowd control spells
Human Wizard with melee specialization
Dwarf Barbarian
Human Cleric
Human Fighter with a shield

..

That is a party built for bruising! Was the adventure adjusted for 5 PCs?

Silver Crusade

We held a playtest session yesterday (Tuesday, August 7). We played part 1 of "Doomsday Dawn." Something that came up early on when we verified our characters with each other was how easy it can be to get lost tracking all the boosts to your ability scores.

Our party was successful with our mission in Part 1. We had a paladin, an alchemist, a fighter, and two clerics. It began like a standard Paizo adventure--we received a briefing and a mission. Then it became a dungeon crawl.

We were more aware of our marching order than we typically seem to be in version 1. Subjectively, critical hits seemed to happen more frequently than we're accustomed to at low levels. They were very satisfying when a PC enjoyed crits. There was a lot of tension when a PC was the recipient of a crit. Given the new action economy, it is entirely possible for a target to be crit three times in a single turn. Yikes!

Certain challenges felt frustrating--especially poison. We're left to wonder if the party might have failed the mission if we didn't have two clerics and a ton of healing. There were a couple of combat encounters that nearly ended us! Granted, some of that was the result of the dice. However, this adventure felt particularly dangerous overall. Maybe it was partly because we were (relatively) fragile 1st level characters?

As a whole party, we never ran out of spells, though individual characters did.

Our party was very cooperative. We checked in with each other so that we didn't step all over each other's tactics. This was a big factor in our success, for sure!

We referenced the core rulebook frequently. In that regard, gameplay was slowed down a little. We expect that to be reduced as we gain experience and system mastery. However, if the idea was to make the playtest more friendly for casual players… Well, the jury is still out on that. Our table was full of experienced players, and we engaged in a lot of checking and double-checking.

I know for sure that some of us filled out the survey already. I can't say for certain if all the players did.

We defeaed the BBEG in about 4.5 hours of real-world time and 2 days of in-game time.

Overall, we had a fun evening, and that's the most important thing! :)


Question: Is it at all useful to submit surveys if we didn't complete the module?


The campaign was designed for 4 characters so if you had 5 characters you most likely had an easier time.


Okibruez wrote:

So my group played through this last night. We had very little trouble with most of the encounters, but that was more to do with our party composition than any basis in the encounters.

Goblin Wizard with crowd control spells
Human Wizard with melee specialization
Dwarf Barbarian
Human Cleric
Human Fighter with a shield

The first fight with the slime, and then the following fight with the goblins were both fairly easily cleared with front to back battle lines and some smart crowd control.
The encounter with the centipedes... was not. The cramped quarters meant that lines of sight were impossible for the wizards, so the front line got swarmed, and that's where we found out about the high lethality of the adventure packet.
The centipedes had an average hit rate of just around 65%, which, combined with the poison, meant that most of the party was poisoned and near 0 HP at some point. (3 or less HP, for reference.)
The goblin ambush in the room with the fire, in comparison, was easy...
Because the goblin wizard cast Sleep on half the ambush before combat rolls.
Similarly, the encounter with the Faceless Stalker was easy because both wizards had Magic Missile prepared; 6d4+6 damage is not to be scoffed at, at such a low level.

So yes, party composition and spell selection carried the day by outright negating most of the encounters.

That being said, my thoughts on the edition are fairly straightforward.
1st thought: The monsters being able to out-stat players of the same level isn't necessarily a bad idea, if the monster in question is meant to be huge and intimidating. When a basic Goblin does, though, is when it turns into a problem. Goblins should be scary because of numbers, not because one goblin deals an average of 7 damage in a round. And that's just one example.
2nd thought: The skill system is a mess. I can see what's being attempted, but it punishes anyone who wants to pick up a bunch of different skills by minimizing skill progression and locking the most interesting...

Magic Missile is the way to go, since it guarantees damage which is very valuable in pf2. My group is now preparing to play the 3rd adventure of the playtest, and the probabilities to hit are always between 50% and 60% (which explains the randomness of the system). If conditions were a little stronger (say, flat-footed -4/-4 for example), it would facilitate more teamplay between PCs and cut down some of the randomness.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

We went back into the Ashen Ossuary with fresh characters after having been taken out by Drakus the first time around.

When we entered his lair through the door by the statue that time, he quickly cut down one PC at a time before everyone could even make it into the room.

This time the party moved around and through the secret door and then snuck in through the tunnel, allowing them to be all fully present and within attack range. The fight was an entirely different beast that way and the PCs won gloriously.

RPG Superstar Season 9

DraegerMD wrote:
Okibruez wrote:

Similarly, the encounter with the Faceless Stalker was easy because both wizards had Magic Missile prepared; 6d4+6 damage is not to be scoffed at, at such a low level.

So yes, party composition and spell selection carried the day by outright negating most of the encounters.

Magic Missile is the way to go, since it guarantees damage which is very valuable in pf2. My group is now preparing to play the 3rd adventure of the playtest, and the probabilities to hit are always between 50% and 60% (which explains the randomness of the system). If conditions were a little stronger (say, flat-footed -4/-4 for example), it would facilitate more teamplay between PCs and cut down some of the randomness.

I don't disagree, and in a way it makes every bonus/penalty really count, at least at low level. I played a bard and made liberal use of inspire courage, which helped swing a couple of the encounters where it seemed like a 50/50 split. In fact, the encounters where we struggled the most were ones where the bardic music didn't help (e.g. it doesn't improve saves against the grease spell used by the goblin caster). It certainly made me feel valued as a support character.

DraegerMD wrote:
2nd thought: The skill system is a mess. I can see what's being attempted, but it punishes anyone who wants to pick up a bunch of different skills by minimizing skill progression and locking the most interesting flavors behind Signature Skills. Simultaneously, it also reduces the feeling of "I am actually advancing in skill" because everyone gets a base +1 to all skills every level, which the monsters also get. It just feels like a case of 'bigger numbers for the sake of bigger numbers' because, statistically, everything remains roughly the same. Literally could do away with the redundant +1/level entirely, and instead unlock level related effects like spell level as the player reaches the appropriate level. It'd feel less like number bloat.

Our rogue felt similarly, though he gave it the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't gotten to a level where he can play with the extra Skill Feats yet. I think skills could do with some revisions as well, but I'm reserving judgment until I try it at the higher levels with some Skill Feats thrown into the mix.

EDIT: My biggest concern is that it will make all characters functionally identical concerning skills. In PF 1.0 very few characters have more skill points than class skills, so even among class skills they need to pick and choose what they want to specialize in among several options that fit with the class's general feel. That was part of the customization that made character building interesting - I could build a dungeon-delving rogue and a social intrigue rogue very differently based on which skills I put ranks in, even though both fit under the rogue umbrella. Now, even a mediocre Intelligence bonus gives most classes enough Trained Skills to cover all their Signature Skills, and since cooler abilities are locked behind Signature Skill barriers (e.g. requiring master or legendary proficiency) I can't see many people choosing skills outside the signature list unless they have high enough Intelligence to get bonus skill proficiencies. I'm holding out hope that higher level integration of Skill Feats will restore the customization among favored skills, but it's definitely concerning that I've never seen a player pick any skill outside the signature list unless it was a surplus skill rank from high Intelligence.

DraegerMD wrote:

3rd thought: The 3 actions per round felt sleek and interesting, and it's different in an exciting way. I actually enjoyed it a lot, especially because it adds a different dimension to tactical thinking beyond the standard "move and attack or full attack?"

Edit: Also the Shield rules caused a lot of confusion, such as in regards to the Centipede poison, and the Denting rules.

Amen to that. The 3 actions really made each turn come alive for us. Definitely pumped to see if that excitement carries into the higher levels.

We loved the shield rules, but that was mainly because our paladin is a history teacher who was thrilled to see shields get the limelight they deserve. He mastered the shield rules quickly and leaned on his shield a lot, to great effect.

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