Incomplete spell schools


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


There are 8 schools of magic for a wizard to pick from at character creation.

There are not 8 schools of magic worth of spells for a wizard to pick from.

Why is this OK?

If a brand new player sits down and starts building a character and reads the 8 schools of magic, thinks divination sounds cool and loved the character Alex Verus who is a really awesome combat diviner and picks that as their school of magic... well they'd realize they'd been snookered because there is a shameful lack of divination spells.

Some schools are more equal than others, and shamefully so.

4x8 = 32. That is a very similar number to the number of spells per level for the first 3x levels.

3x8 = 24. That is a very similar number to the number of mid-level spells per level.

Is there any good reason why a 1st level diviner (or wizard from any other school) doesn't have a decent choice of spells that could be used to fill their damage/support/utility needs?

How many people over the decades have wanted to play a diviner... only to 'nope' out after looking at the diviner spell list?

Even more populated spell lists are not internally rounded with a good ratio of damage, support/control, and utility choices.

Yes, a wizard can go out of school, but in terms of building a character, how is needing to go out of school to get even the most basic of basics done a strong platform to feel like their school selection was a meaningful choice of their magic style and not just a bid to get an extra cast of a cherry picked power spell?

Especially if each school had 1 uncommon spell per level, and picking a school granted default access to uncommon spells of that school. That would really mix up building a wizard and provide the GM with reward options for the wizard to seek out.


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Different schools are good at different things. If they will had damage, utility and defense, them your choice of school does not matter.


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The schools would be good at different things, because each school is one type of magical mechanic. However, over time wizards from those schools would have figured out how to leverage that mechanic in such a way as to apply to the general sorts of needs that they would run into. Like evolution usually produces many strategies for solving essentially a similar problem.

Right now the 1st level diviner choice is literally an offensive spell. Divination gives you *offense* at level 1. Not a buff, not utility, not control, and absolutely not *information* gathering at level 1.

Each school should be different, giving each school a feeling that you've got a unique set of tools to skin a cat. Just like cheetahs and crocodiles both eat zebras despite one being a reptile and the other being a mammal leveraging completely different mechanics.

Also, if you want picking a school to not matter... Just not having spells in that school seems like the ultimate way to do that. I'd bet that there is a huge correlation between the number of spells in a school and the number of wizards of that school that players have created.


It's a playtest with a limited spell selection. The core book will probably include more utility stuff that they didn't feel needed to be playtested and wouldn't be that useful to most players at this stage.

But yes, specialists probably need to prepare heightened versions of lower level spells to get the best use of their bonus slots.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Can't see the reason for wining. Played diviners for years in previous addition, worked great as long as you actually use spells to solve problems and let your fighters dps. Nothing seems to actually change.


Not Animate Dead equivalent is what is really bothering me. I wanted to build a Necromancer, but have no way of making my horde of the undead...


Necromancer wizards have lost most of their spells. Finger of death, wail of the banshee and soulbind have been shunted to divine and occult lists, and for some reason implosion is on the arcane list.

The logic here is bizarre; necromancer wizards have almost no higher level spells except horrid wilting, and their spells have been given to divine casters. Finger of death and wail of the banshee have always been arcane spells, with wail shared with Death domain clerics.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Necromancers can’t animate dead and this is a crime.


LordofBones wrote:

Necromancer wizards have lost most of their spells. Finger of death, wail of the banshee and soulbind have been shunted to divine and occult lists, and for some reason implosion is on the arcane list.

The logic here is bizarre; necromancer wizards have almost no higher level spells except horrid wilting, and their spells have been given to divine casters. Finger of death and wail of the banshee have always been arcane spells, with wail shared with Death domain clerics.

They're rebalancing the lists, while also introducing a background lore explanation of two essences (physical, material, spiritual, or primal) driving the spell inclusion of each list. Arcane is material and mental, so I figured most of the necromancy would drop off as animating the dead or stealing their soul isn't really a physical or mental change.


Xenocrat wrote:
LordofBones wrote:

Necromancer wizards have lost most of their spells. Finger of death, wail of the banshee and soulbind have been shunted to divine and occult lists, and for some reason implosion is on the arcane list.

The logic here is bizarre; necromancer wizards have almost no higher level spells except horrid wilting, and their spells have been given to divine casters. Finger of death and wail of the banshee have always been arcane spells, with wail shared with Death domain clerics.

They're rebalancing the lists, while also introducing a background lore explanation of two essences (physical, material, spiritual, or primal) driving the spell inclusion of each list. Arcane is material and mental, so I figured most of the necromancy would drop off as animating the dead or stealing their soul isn't really a physical or mental change.

Then enervation, false life and ray of enfeeblement have no business being on the arcane spell list. Bards are now better necromancers than necromancers.

What's the point of having necromancy as a school of magic, when the wizard spell list has almost no support for necromancers? Even diviners got wish, of all things.

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