Cursing Party members.


Hey everyone. So I have a very weird question to ask, but first let me explain the situation.
We are playing an evil campaign and trying to gain wealth and power to take over Golarion. We are LVL 5, and we have a dancing dervish bard, that steals everything and dances, and sells herself for money. next we have antipaladin spear weilder, who wants to be the very best at what he does, who has a really good perception check and sees the bard steal everything. Finally there is me, a wizard necromancer that misses out on 98% of the theft and can't get a cut. When we find loot we don't share and the antipaladin, and bard are the the richest people.

The player of the bard and the GM suggested something that I would have NEVER thought of and is to use my magic to either force them to give me a cut (bestow curse) or to at least find out about the the theft (low perception).

So here is my question. How do I form a curse to force the bard to share her haul or to always know about her sleight of hands?

Maybe the curse of Fevered Dreams? With the variation that it only affects her if she doesn't share her loot?

The 1st level cleric spells Fairness could work as a curse. If your GM is ok with it maybe applying this with the duration of permanent could be done with Bestow Curse. Just the threat of this may be enough to get you your fair share. In your campaign this would almost shut down the other party members. If they know it they may give you your fair share out of fear.

You could also do something similar to Life Pact except targeting wealth instead of HP. If one party member does not share the wealth they could take a penalty similar to Geas. This would probably require researching a new spell.

Another way to handle the situation is to use spells to read or alter their thoughts. Detect Thoughts can read surface thoughts so may allow you to know when you are being cheated. Sow thoughts could plant the idea that if they don’t give you your fair share they will be punished. You could use Sow thought to achieve an effect similar to what I suggested earlier.

One down side about using your magic is that both of the other characters have good Will saves. In most cases a Will save is going to be allowed. The AntiPaladin is going to be particularly difficult to affect.

Perfect! I was going to put in charm person and a few other lower spells to help with the fairness. Then as time progresses I will probably just cast geas or the lesser version to just force the issue.

How about appealing to what is in their best interests rather than trying to influence them with a curse or spell? It may seem like having more than their fair share serves their best interests at first blush but, in actuality, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. By robbing you of your fair share, they are weakening the strength of your entire team and thereby hampering their own best interests. A wizard is a very powerful character; a well-equipped wizard is only more powerful.

Even in real life, most evil people and criminals recognize that allying with a competent team helps to advance their goals quicker and further than trying to go it alone while taking advantage of everyone and everything at every possible opportunity. To advance to truly great heights of evil or criminality while going it completely alone is a rarity whereas organized crime groups that cooperate internally generally accomplish much, much more. the dancer is risking his\her life stealing (risking getting cought) and sell him\herself for cash.. and you want a cut of it? frankly even if you do spot it -why the hell should you get a share? (same for the antipaaldin for spotting it). if it's for not telling on the dancer. same could be about not telling on the anti-paladin's choice of work.

i would adivce you to instead use that arsanal of spells and get a job (or get cash illiguly from it ) ether from selling 'magical items' (magic aura treated items) to suckers, casting sleep and rubbing them blind or any other way of thusands that casters can use to get rich fast (no im not going to list them all or the best ones. one i don't want my players getting any. second i don't want my GM in on it ether ;)

Casting spells on the other players probably isn't a good idea. That should cause the other players to mistrust you. Right now the other 2 characters are just playing you for a fool, and taking advantage of you. And right now they are gaining money faster than you are.

But if you wait you'll become more powerful far faster than they will. Wizards just get more powerful with levels at a rate other classes can't keep up with.

So bide your time. Start a 'book of grudges'. Have the wizard always be insincere with the other two. Always compliment them on every new item they get. Say how you're amazed at how they can afford such luxuries. If they ever ask you to do something for them (like make an item, or cast teleport or some comfort spell. Something outside of basic adventuring), charge them for it. Let them know that you haven't seen what they are doing but its obvious that they aren't sharing wealth with you. If you aren't being treated like a partner, why should you help them for free?

Aim yourself at acquiring an army. Preserve the corpses of monsters. Bring them back as undead later. Pick up item crafting feats. Use the discount for yourself. If they want items made, charge them 70% of the item market price. Pick up Fabricate as soon as possible. Use it to create wealth for yourself.

Eventually get Simulacrum, start creating some powerful but absolutely loyal subordinates. A coven of Hags is a low hanging fruit, cheap to make for what they can do. Start offering to control the weather for villages in return for tribute. Sour the weather for those that refuse. Just a dry spell. They'll come around when they notice everybody but them gets rain. Don't ask for too much, its all free after all.

Make sure your magical guardians are as strong as you can make them. Only use them to defend yourself. Someday they will turn on you, be ready for it. And when that day comes revile in it. Pull out your book of grudges and read everything they've ever done against you. Everything you blame that one for. Then animate their corpse. Add it to your undead horde. If you didn't kill both of them smile at the survivor and decide if you want to finish it all now or not. It would probably be a lot cleaner to just kill them both and end the campaign with both of them as your undead servants with no free will.

The spells I picked are not in the get rich categories... I am a necromancer, opposition schools are enchantment, and transmutation. I have scribe scroll and did not pick abjuration spells other than what a specific spellbook came with. The antipaladin is my twin brother but is hedonistic and selfish and will not share out of the kindness of my heart. The bard is a "friend" and I know she has sticky fingers and is super greedy (gets minuses if she does not get 10% more than everyone else)... In my case desperate times call for desperate measures

Oh, and if they give you a hard time about charging for magic item creation (like to the point they threaten you), relent. Then spend some extra money on their item and curse it. Make the item do exactly what they paid for, but a hidden curse that makes the wielder vulnerable to your magic (-6 to save vs you). Don't tell the players, just pass a note to the GM.

Then learn a spell to make them forget. Plenty of them exist. Charm them when they are asleep. Give a note to the GM where you ask them to loan you money and then cast the spell to make them forget the loan. Make sure there are other NPCs around that could of 'stolen' from them. Let them figure out what happened to their money. Claim some of yours went missing as well. Make sure there is always someone else to blame for anything sneaky you attempt like this. Only do this sort of thing when the others are charmed and don't know it so they won't resist your spells. Make sure the GM is on board with your treachery. Make sure the scapegoat has enough cash to cover up what you stole.

This is also a good way to make sure the other players never develop NPC allies. Frame them and make sure the other players get rid of them.

Garion Beckett wrote:
The spells I picked are not in the get rich categories... I am a necromancer, opposition schools are enchantment, and transmutation. I have scribe scroll and did not pick abjuration spells other than what a specific spellbook came with. The antipaladin is my twin brother but is hedonistic and selfish and will not share out of the kindness of my heart. The bard is a "friend" and I know she has sticky fingers and is super greedy (gets minuses if she does not get 10% more than everyone else)... In my case desperate times call for desperate measures

So go full necromancer. Start casting your 2nd level spells to make soul stones, then use the stones to create undead. Also look into using Blood Money to cast spells that cost gold. Find a method to recover your strength damage!

Fabricate is out, but everything else you can still do. Wizards have lots of options, you just need to plot.

We are trying to take over the world so we have to build allies, it is a really weird situation. All I need out of it is more gold, and be a part of the scheme, because I am far below the average party gold, by like 4000.

4000 gp?
spend 1200 gp to buy 4 masterwork weapons (better something easy to move around like daggers. or sought out like longsowrds).
cast magic aura on them. make sure to buff urself before hand to have max dc. makem look like +2 weapons. go sell them for half price like any other gained loot.
paid 1200 gp for masterwork = base price thik dagger is +2 gp per one?)
sold each for 4150+1 half base weapon price (weapon +2 is worth 8000 for magic 300 for masterwork and base price, say 2 for dagger).
get around 16,000+ gp and tease your dancer 'friend'.

anyone checking to see if the item is legit or not need to baypass your save dc (if he uses identify that take a lot of time to cast. simple detect magic would be fooled). just don't go overboad caliming they are +5,keen,holy bane and flaming (so +10) since not a lot can buy them and the higher it cost the more carefull the buyer will be.

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sounds like you need to post in the advice forum.

The curse idea came from the bard player. It was either a curse that makes her share without her character's knowledge or a way for me to know 100% of the time that she in fact stole from people and then it would be up to my character to negotiate the amount shared.

still can't get why she need to share her off work profit with you.
if you didn't do anything to help gain it in the 1st place. it's not like you went and distracted the target or debuffed it so the stealing would go smother. it's like asking a part time waiter to share with you his other work salary since in the part time you share tips.

In character there is no reason to share with the other party members. Out of character the reason to share is game balance and to keep the game fun for everyone. Obviously the other player realize this and are looking for a way to correct the situation that makes sense in character.

One of the problems with an “Evil” campaign is that there is little justification for sharing resources. In a “Good” campaign the characters are more interested in cooperation. Cooperation often leads to a stronger party so that everyone benefits.

One solution could be to make some sort of unbreakable oath. This is a fairly common plot device in many stories. A group of evil wizards decided to cooperate to attain some goal that none of them are individually able to achieve. Since none of them can really trust the other they take some sort of unbreakable oath of loyalty to each other. If they break the terms of the oath something terrible happens to them like death or losing all their power. You could use the rules for Occult Rituals for this. I don’t use occult rituals that much so I am not sure if there is a ritual for this, but if there is not it should not be too hard to create.

Evil people and criminals cooperate all the time. Real life examples of this abound. Has no one ever heard of the mafia? Has no one ever heard the phrase “honour among thieves”? Humans are social creatures. We are virtually always more successful when we cooperate. You know who doesn’t cooperate? Foolish people. Unintelligent people. Unsuccessful people.

Your group-mates aren’t playing evil characters, they are playing foolish, unintelligent characters who are bound to be less successful than if they help properly equip the wizard they are travelling with. A powerful wizard ally should be incentive enough to anyone with a lick of sense.

Meirrill has a pretty good description of what is most likely to happen to the dummies if they piss off rather than respect the wizard. I do hope that they both have low int and low wis scores to reflect their incredibly poor decision making skills otherwise they are just people playing characters as counter-productive, unrealistic and undesirable as those who stomp all over games with the chaotic stupid alignment.

took an oath to share no matter what > the three of us got a gold coin from the Kobold's loot!!! > #$%@!!!

but yea. ooc, a plot-hook bonding device is usually needed in evil or 'colorfully pragmatic' groups.

Haha, discussing this with husband...he points out I’ve only used half the phrase and that its entirety is “there is no honour among thieves”. So yea, that’s a terrible point but I feel the rest of what I said still stands. We do best when we cooperate, even evil people and criminals, and it is foolish not to ensure the wizard grows his power through wealth.

Lawful evil cooperates fairly well, but in that case there is usually a hierarchy with a definite chain of command. Chaotic Evil usually only cooperates when one person is strong enough to force the issue.

Since one of the players is an Antipaladin, more than likely he is chaotic evil, not lawful evil.

You could go the opposite route: use your spells to aid their theft. Earn a share.


Liberty's Edge

I get the impression from the Initial Post, that the Dervish/Bard is skimming from the party loot, and that she is sharing it with the anti-paladin because he knows it's going on. In this case curse her to be -12(?) when skimming party loot. I.E., she's cursed to be unable to skim party loot without being blaringly obvious about it. Then demand your fair share.

If she's stealing on her own, then that's her business & not yours. If she's light-fingering while you are talking to someone on party-business, then it is your business, as her actions risk a failed meet.

BTW, is the anti-pal providing her with _Cure Disease_? Otherwise she's going to pick up something grungy fairly quickly...

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