Crafting items over 100gp = character retirement?


Magic Items


So, under the crafting rules, you must spend at least 4 days crafting an item of your level, with a day less for every level you exceed the item's level.

IF you want to finish the item right away after those days, you need to spend the remaining half of the item's market price; making crafting it cost the SAME as buying it! (which kinda makes this option suck)

OR you can spend additional days crafting, reducing the remaining price by an SP value equal to what a character of your level and proficiency can do in a day. BUT... That means you're reducing a cost frequently measured in GP by SP, you know, 1/10th the value you're trying to reduce. Mind you that consumables don't quite have this issue, since they're usually priced in SP anyway.

BUT... If you're crafting pretty much anything over 100gp and you're level 15 or less, you'll be working on it for a while. Making it really undesirable to do this.

Particularly in the case of most of the formerly "Wondrous Items" which cost 1000s of gp, you've basically retired that character. What started as a simple crafting project has now become a doctorate degree level life's work (if you're trying to actually save any money by crafting).

Again, I feel the need to point out that many of these formerly "Wondrous Items" need a high LV to even be able to craft them, but aren't particularly useful by that point, let alone enticing to wait that long for them.

Yes, a 15th level character can make a 4000gp item in a month or less (if their craft proficiency is high), but does a 15th level character even need what they made by then? Meanwhile a 7th level character spends nearly a whole year making even a 1000gp item! And forget about doing anything so ambitious before lv7.

Again, you could just spend the remaining money to finish right away, but that really completely ruins the whole point of crafting if you're just going to end up paying market price anyway.


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Sorcerer Spider wrote:

So, under the crafting rules, you must spend at least 4 days crafting an item of your level, with a day less for every level you exceed the item's level.

IF you want to finish the item right away after those days, you need to spend the remaining half of the item's market price; making crafting it cost the SAME as buying it! (which kinda makes this option suck)

OR you can spend additional days crafting, reducing the remaining price by an SP value equal to what a character of your level and proficiency can do in a day. BUT... That means you're reducing a cost frequently measured in GP by SP, you know, 1/10th the value you're trying to reduce. Mind you that consumables don't quite have this issue, since they're usually priced in SP anyway.

BUT... If you're crafting pretty much anything over 100gp and you're level 15 or less, you'll be working on it for a while. Making it really undesirable to do this.

Particularly in the case of most of the formerly "Wondrous Items" which cost 1000s of gp, you've basically retired that character. What started as a simple crafting project has now become a doctorate degree level life's work (if you're trying to actually save any money by crafting).

Again, I feel the need to point out that many of these formerly "Wondrous Items" need a high LV to even be able to craft them, but aren't particularly useful by that point, let alone enticing to wait that long for them.

Yes, a 15th level character can make a 4000gp item in a month or less (if their craft proficiency is high), but does a 15th level character even need what they made by then? Meanwhile a 7th level character spends nearly a whole year making even a 1000gp item! And forget about doing anything so ambitious before lv7.

Again, you could just spend the remaining money to finish right away, but that really completely ruins the whole point of crafting if you're just going to end up paying market price anyway.

Is 1000gp project appropriate for a lvl 7 character though? Also the point of paying the same for an item to craft is to get an item not found at the marketplace. All seems to be in order to me.


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Seems like a good deal if they can craft an uncommon item at market price when an uncommon item is only rarely on the actual market for purchase, or even craft common items in a remote village or base camp, at sea, or during a siege.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"The point" of crafting in PF1 was usually to get items cheaper than market value. PF2 seems to be more careful about breaking WBL, so crafting looks like it's more about ensuring access to items you want that might not be available in the market than getting you items significantly cheaper.

This looks like less of a problem with the game, and more like the purpose of a mechanic changing between editions.


"Oh but Crafting is now to gain access to it when the market doesn't have it"

Err, don't we get into the problem of the market having the materials to make the item in question but also not being able to make it?

Now this does make sense to me to a degree but also doesn't depending on the item and town in question.

You mean to tell me the town sells all the materials to make a shield, has enough magic to supply the ingredients for the magical side of the effect, and seems to have proper means of making the magic shield you want.... but no one thought of it till now? And no one else but you can make it?

That seems a tad strange to me.

Edit: Also wowy wow, does that make it stink to be an Alchemist that actually WANTED to Craft stuff to keep as back ups rather than cheat them in with their Dailies. It's going to take me HOW LONG to make some Mutagens?


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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
MerlinCross wrote:
You mean to tell me the town sells all the materials to make a shield, has enough magic to supply the ingredients for the magical side of the effect, and seems to have proper means of making the magic shield you want.... but no one thought of it till now? And no one else but you can make it?

You mean the local grocery store sells all these separate ingredients, but no one thought to make banana cream pies?

You mean the local hardware store sells all this lumber, tools, and fasteners, but no one thought to make a table that's the exact size, shape, style, and color I wanted?

Anyway, like Brew Bird said, the purpose of the mechanic has changed pretty substantially. The modeling of the opportunity cost of your downtime creating a discount doesn't kick in until it's competing with your other options for earning money during downtime (which is what the discount is balanced against). It does, however, add the hassle of needing the formula for the item, which ... I dunno. It seems worth it if you're going to have a good amount of downtime and want a bunch of some specific items.


RicoTheBold wrote:
MerlinCross wrote:
You mean to tell me the town sells all the materials to make a shield, has enough magic to supply the ingredients for the magical side of the effect, and seems to have proper means of making the magic shield you want.... but no one thought of it till now? And no one else but you can make it?

You mean the local grocery store sells all these separate ingredients, but no one thought to make banana cream pies?

You mean the local hardware store sells all this lumber, tools, and fasteners, but no one thought to make a table that's the exact size, shape, style, and color I wanted?

Anyway, like Brew Bird said, the purpose of the mechanic has changed pretty substantially. The modeling of the opportunity cost of your downtime creating a discount doesn't kick in until it's competing with your other options for earning money during downtime (which is what the discount is balanced against). It does, however, add the hassle of needing the formula for the item, which ... I dunno. It seems worth it if you're going to have a good amount of downtime and want a bunch of some specific items.

If you want to continue that.

What do you mean the Pie Maker never thought to make Banana Cream Pie even though the local grocery store sells all the ingredients? That's a bit strange considering Banana Cream Pie is a common item.

What do you mean the local carpenter can't make me the table I want even though he knows how to work wood, make tables and I can supply the wood and paint? But he can make a chair out of some drift wood he pulled up? Huh...,

"Good amount of downtime" is never something to be counted on. I'm sorry, I don't want to spend 2 weeks on just 1 Mutagen. And I doubt the team will be willing to let me get away with taking that time from them unless they also have their own projects.


I can accept I could but steel in a town where I couldn't find someone who knows how to fold it to forge a katana, yeah. I definitely wouldn't expect the people at my local chemist or garden centre to know how to make bombs, certainly not reliably or safely.


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there is ONE issue i have with this transition.

i actually like the fact that crafting doesnt break WBL but just gives you access... only it doesn't actually gives you ANY access.

Due to requiring "formula" to craft stuff, a)it means you're actually LOSING money when you craft something (formulas are pretty expensive)

and more importantly: you have to get the formula.

so the whole "it's there to give access to items you dont find in the market" kinda breaks down when you actuaolly need to find an (equally rare) formula to even begin with!

as an example:

you want that sweet +4 potency armor rune for your 15th level character.

that costs, market price, around 5100gp

you either find a big town that has that and buy it.

or... find a big town to buy it's formula, for 350gp, and then craft it. Let's say he's a master crafter. Because he's 15level, he needs "just" 10 days of crafting to break even for the formula cost.

so:

crafting not only requires the exact same access to "rare" items (the item in question vs the formula to make the item in question), but for a few skill feats and skill increases, you get to ADD 10 days to the procurement of the item (still no profit)

even getting the feat only gives you 4 lvl 2 and lower formulas "for free".

At this point, the only reason to actually even try to craft stuff, is to ALSO pick up the inventor feat, so that you can spend money and downtime to invent formulas, and then you catually gain access to COMMON items to craft.

so, in order to have the "availability" (for common items, mind you) perk, you need to spend 3 skill increases (to master) 2 feat skills (magical crafting and inventor) and some extra gp (to actually craft the formula)

that seems... excessive.

IMO:

let basic crafting feats (magical crafting, alchemical crafting, etc) feats not only give access to 4 lvl2- recipes when you pick them up, but also give something like 1 formula of your level each time you level up.

and add uncommon items (with gm discretion) to inventor feat to make up for it.

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