Some Genuine Ancestry Suggestions


Ancestries & Backgrounds


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The writing is more or less on the wall when it comes to Ancestries; people do not like having most of their Ancestry's formerly innate traits taken out and being made into Ancestry feats, meaning it takes until around level 17 to get what in PF1e you had from the start. That much is fairly obvious even though the playtest hasn't been out for 48 hours (of the full year before the completed rulebook is released in August 2019); my suggestion is we take that immediate feedback and develop it a little further, rather than beat a dead horse. Because while negative feedback is still helpful if it's constructive, too much of it becomes redundant and easy to tune out.

Before that though, I want to offer a little theory.

My Theory:
Paizo has made no secret of the fact that they're trying some very extreme changes, none of which they're unwilling to walk back on or change if needed. But as we see of the Sorcerer having only eight bloodlines and multiclassing only having four class options (never mind the limited archetypes overall), we know that in spite of this extreme testing Paizo is exhibiting a certain level of caution. My theory is that Ancestry feats are much the same; starting with what the classes are by and large already known for, what people are already familiar and comfortable with, in order to test the new feat system. If you try and look at it that way, it makes a good bit of sense that Paizo has mostly kept to the tried and true options for now, doesn't it?

Now, the ideal of these Ancestry feats, like most aspects of the new system, is uniqueness and customization. How your character stands out, unique among the crowd, and how that translates into gameplay. A good example of this in my opinion? Goblin bite. A particularly angry, feral, or just plain cooky Goblin would have no problems chomping down on people- I could especially see a Barbarian Goblin loving that option. And it's something you can integrate into your build and work with, even if on its own it's lackluster. Which is a good thing; ancestry feats should not outshine or overtake your training and fighting style as far as I'm concerned, but rather complement it. So let's run with that.

My suggestion:
Every Ancestry should have default traits that are innately part of the Ancestry, such as Elven immunity to sleep, Dwarves having an easy time brushing off poison. Things that are part of the Ancestry's innate physiology and biology, not simply part of their culture. From there, I propose an option of two directions: "double down" or "divert". Take Dwarven poison resistance for example; you could "double down" by becoming even more resistant to poison, maybe outright immune to certain kinds of it too.

Or maybe you're a Dwarf who somehow didn't inherit their Ancestry's natural-born hardiness. So you'd pick a feat that replaces the poison resistance with say a heightened ability to detect or perceive poisonous substances, born out of that necessary extra caution. But having to take a feat simply to replace an innate trait and customize your character might feel pretty bad, so the feat would pull double-duty; not only replacing the default trait, but also building upon the alternate trait. Perhaps in learning how to spot and avoid poisons, you've become more aware of your surroundings in some manner- maybe you're more familiar with nature than the average Dwarf, or maybe you're simply more perceptive.

Things like knowledge of stonecutting and weapon familiarity, on the other hand? Those are, for me personally, a bit less cut and dry. Maybe you're an Elf who spent more time focusing on his books or his spells than the art of the weapon. Maybe you're a Dwarf who focused more on battle and combat than learning how to work stone. I think those should remain as optional feats you can pick at first level, then double-down on based on how you progress. Or just take the one and done if that suits your character, up to you.

A second suggestion running through my head is following through on the common suggestion of two Ancestry/Heritage feats, but two feats on top of innate traits? That seems like taking a few too many treats from the candy bowl. Maybe simply being able to take more Ancestry feats earlier on? Maybe being able to take Ancestry feats in place of a General feat? I dunno.

So how's about you guys? I made this thread so people could come up with their own suggestions to find a solution, so what does everyone else have to add?


I would like to be allowed to choose 4 or 5 ancestry traits/feats at character creation. It would function similarly to subbing out racial traits or abilities in PF1 with the ones you wanted.

Having to wait to have darkvision as a dwarf, for example, is silly. Frontloading would be much better here.


I still favour making Ancestry purely an aesthetic and RP consideration with no associated game mechanics, but it doesn't seem to be a popular one...


I would like to see biological traits like low-light or dark vision be automatic for all that could have it.

I'm also a fan of the idea of receiving two ancestry feats at level 1. This would help define and differentiate beginning characters. You could then tack vision into the half-breed feats, or turn them into heritage feats.


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More than one ancestry feat at the start is definitely what I would prefer
The ancestries are not unique enough as it stands and as others have pointed out gaining some of the things later doesn’t really make logical sense

But how can this feedback be made in the form of actual feedback from playing? Paizo seem like they want to hear that kind rather than concept based feedback from only reading the book

But this falls completely into the latter - unless everyone has players who also turn around and say “wait I only get that at level one”.

It is a tricky one


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The Racial Feats in PF1 would have been cool Ancestry feats. They didn't replace what the Race already got, but improved them in awesome ways. These would be used to be true Paragons of the race. This is how I thought Ancestry Feats were gonna work, but I was sadly mistaken.


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ChibiNyan wrote:
The Racial Feats in PF1 would have been cool Ancestry feats. They didn't replace what the Race already got, but improved them in awesome ways. These would be used to be true Paragons of the race. This is how I thought Ancestry Feats were gonna work, but I was sadly mistaken.

+1

This is exactly what I thought as well

I thought they would be like the new skill feats in that the new game would open up those feats that people hardly ever took because they needed a certain combat feat chain (or class based one)

That is what I interpreted “the dwarfiest dwarf to ever dwarf “ to mean
Because right now as many have said a PF1 level 1 dwarf is far more dwarfy then a level 20 PF2 one. I don’t think that was the intention and if it was then it shouldn’t be

I guess they want to make it quicker and simpler at first level but at the moment uniqueness is lost. It should be an easy fix though. More “level 1” feats at first level and more higher level ancestry feats to choose from

I honestly believe the latter is coming - in the main book or later releases

It is the former - more ancestry feats at creation (minimum 2 but ideally something like 4) that should be the key feedback here


I agree as well.

My gut reaction when I read how the ancestry feats work and what they actually give, was that this needs front-loading asap.

After thinking on it and seeing some other reactions to this from seasoned players I propose this:

1) Like other have said, and my initial reaction, all biologically based feats should be freely given as Special Abilities like Low-light Vision, Darkvision and, Unburdened are.

Anyone else find it fishy that dwarfs get to be a bit dwarfier then gnomes get to gnomier or elves get to be elfier?

2) Each ancestry should have a good variety of alternate special abilities much like the alternate racial traits in 1e.

3) Ancestry feats should only include things based on culture and special training including special training to improve Ancestry Special Abilities. Naturally, this could include version of 1e Racial Feats.

4) Front-load!! At level 1 you get 3 Ancestry Feats, then at level 5 you can take an Advanced Ancestry Feat that builds upon one of your previously selected Ancestry Feats. And that is all. I can't imagine most creatures take the equivalent of 5 levels of life experience to learn how to be part of their culture.

Speaking of which since Ancestry Feats in this context are more like Cultural Feats, there should be a set of Alternate Special Abilities that allow access to the Ancestry Feats of another ancestry if your character was raised by members of another ancestry. The only caveat would be that you cannot gain an Ancestry Feat that relies on another ancestry's biology.

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