paizo.com Recent Posts in Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?paizo.com Recent Posts in Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?2018-08-03T21:39:16Z2018-08-03T21:39:16ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Tursichttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#212018-08-05T19:20:40Z2018-08-05T19:20:40Z<p>A lot of the class feats have copies in multiple classes. Move the copies to the feat chapter, with tags to so they can be picked a class feats. I think this will take about half of the class feats out of the classes. Add a half as many new and unique class feats back in as where move and the book stays about the same size and the class have more cool stuff.</p>A lot of the class feats have copies in multiple classes. Move the copies to the feat chapter, with tags to so they can be picked a class feats. I think this will take about half of the class feats out of the classes. Add a half as many new and unique class feats back in as where move and the book stays about the same size and the class have more cool stuff.Tursic2018-08-05T19:20:40ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?ChibiNyanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#202018-08-05T18:30:24Z2018-08-05T18:30:24Z<p>So like Pathfinder 1? I think just a lot of the class feats should become General feats but others stay in class to keep them distinct. Of course, i'm talking about the ones that don't make sense outside the class. Many of the Cleric/Wizard ones wouldn't fly for anyone else for example.</p>
<p>Problem is, Martials like Fighter would actually require a lot of creativity to design fighter-only feats. Granted, PF1 achieved this after a while.</p>So like Pathfinder 1? I think just a lot of the class feats should become General feats but others stay in class to keep them distinct. Of course, i'm talking about the ones that don't make sense outside the class. Many of the Cleric/Wizard ones wouldn't fly for anyone else for example.
Problem is, Martials like Fighter would actually require a lot of creativity to design fighter-only feats. Granted, PF1 achieved this after a while.ChibiNyan2018-08-05T18:30:24ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?WatersLethehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#192018-08-05T18:23:27Z2018-08-05T18:23:27Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">willuwontu wrote:</div><blockquote><p> This makes multiclassing archetypes much weaker overall.</p>
<p>By opening all class feats to be selected it makes the multiclass feats that let you grab feats at 1st, or 2nd level, or half your level, pretty pointless. </blockquote><p>Well, like I said, Multiclass Archetypes can instead focus on granting more class features and important class locked feats. I sincerely don't want to tell a player who is making a TWF rogue that they •have• to multiclass to make it worthwhile.
<p>The way Multiclassing is now, it's basically required for far more build concepts than it was for PF1e.</p>
<p>I am in favor of having the choice to Multiclass be more meaningful than "I want to use a shield".</p>willuwontu wrote:This makes multiclassing archetypes much weaker overall.
By opening all class feats to be selected it makes the multiclass feats that let you grab feats at 1st, or 2nd level, or half your level, pretty pointless.
Well, like I said, Multiclass Archetypes can instead focus on granting more class features and important class locked feats. I sincerely don't want to tell a player who is making a TWF rogue that they *have* to multiclass to make it worthwhile. The way...WatersLethe2018-08-05T18:23:27ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?willuwontuhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#182018-08-05T17:47:26Z2018-08-05T17:47:26Z<p>This makes multiclassing archetypes much weaker overall.</p>
<p>By opening all class feats to be selected it makes the multiclass feats that let you grab feats at 1st, or 2nd level, or half your level, pretty pointless.</p>This makes multiclassing archetypes much weaker overall.
By opening all class feats to be selected it makes the multiclass feats that let you grab feats at 1st, or 2nd level, or half your level, pretty pointless.willuwontu2018-08-05T17:47:26ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Shane LeRosehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#172018-08-05T17:28:50Z2018-08-05T17:28:50Z<p>Oddly, I liken this class system to Hearthstone. </p>
<p>In Hearthstone you make a deck based on one of 9 classes. Paladin, Rogue, Shaman, etc. You have a pool of class cards and then a LARGE selection of "neutral" cards to pick from to build your deck. The best neutral cards, which would be arguably overpowered, would appear in most decks regardless of class. The most flexible neutral cards, arguably best for the game itself, could be used in a variety of decks in a variety of ways. </p>
<p>Right now, P2 has a very shallow pool of cards to play with, but you HAVE to use these cards (feats). Which greatly restricts what characters you can play. </p>
<p>Playing a dwarf? You have to pick one of your dwarf feats to use even though they're all pretty bad. Same with any other race except human. </p>
<p>Backgrounds? As an optimizer it greatly annoys me that Acrobat (getting the steady balance feat) and Warrior (getting the quick repair feat, thus creating the trope of the fighter that spends ten minutes after every fight repairing their shield) are the only options that look like they're worth as dang. </p>
<p>That being said, you could just ignore the backgrounds and not have a skill feat or bonus "lore" skill and just put a +2 in two stats to finish building the character, but that feels bad having an option that isn't used. </p>
<p>We need to get back to races having a wide variety of minor abilities. Have the heritage feats be worth a dang. Give dwarves "stone sense" and then let them take stonecutting as a feat, that they can then branch out into stone magic or stonework combat or something other than the disappointing feats that have been presented. </p>
<p>I don't think it's unreasonable to want a dwarven bard with a criminal background to feel very different from an elven bard raised in the circus. Other than a one-point difference on attacks both characters are almost the same.</p>Oddly, I liken this class system to Hearthstone.
In Hearthstone you make a deck based on one of 9 classes. Paladin, Rogue, Shaman, etc. You have a pool of class cards and then a LARGE selection of "neutral" cards to pick from to build your deck. The best neutral cards, which would be arguably overpowered, would appear in most decks regardless of class. The most flexible neutral cards, arguably best for the game itself, could be used in a variety of decks in a variety of ways.
Right now, P2...Shane LeRose2018-08-05T17:28:50ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?WatersLethehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#162018-08-05T17:27:53Z2018-08-05T17:27:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote>I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.</blockquote>Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current size? Thrice the current size? Or is any size insufficient as long as there's class gating? </blockquote><p>I am having a hard time using the mobile site to respond, so hopefully this goes through.
<p>I will feel not boxed in if there are relevant options for just about any combat style for any class. If every class list has archery, twf, shield and 2hand combat options it would go a long way.</blockquote><p>IMO if <i>every</i> class is to have such options, that's better done by expanding the general feats list. Tag the additions with a 'combat feat' trait and let thematic classes also take them as class feats if desired, i.e. imitate PF1. What do you think?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote>But it'd also be preferrable to have feat options for enhancing other spells and actions in a sensible way: for example a divine sorcerer can get heal but doesn't have access to feats to boost it even a fraction of how a cleric can making you boxed into Cleric if you want to expand heal use. </blockquote>Hmm. I do want divine sorcerers to have such options, and letting them take them from the cleric class feats would certainly work... but I just don't like declaring open season on class feats in general. It means that when it's time to take a class feat you suddenly have a much longer list of things to look through, most of which are scattered around the rulebook. A big complication over the current system. </blockquote><p>Personally, I would be in favor of bringing in a bigger general/combat feat least. My suggestion of being able to freely raid other class feats is based on the assumption that Paizo wants to keep things organized for new players.
<p>The default class list could be a curated list of build choices, and a GM could say "We're doing beginner mode, no cross class feat selections". Then a more experienced group can say "Alright, we're using normal mode, all class feat lists are open."</p>
<p>Then when they add new classes, they don't need to update the general list if the new class introduces some new feats lots of people would be interested in.</p>
<p>I also think it's reasonable to arbitrarily lock some class feats if they're too class specifically flavored, or too powerful without more investment.</p>
<p>This would allow the Mulitclass Archetypes to focus on getting class features and class locked feats, rather than requiring people to multiclass if they want to be a dual wielding rogue, for example.</p>Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:WatersLethe wrote: Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote: WatersLethe wrote:I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.
Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current...WatersLethe2018-08-05T17:27:53ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Fuzzy-Wuzzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#152018-08-05T17:03:38Z2018-08-05T17:03:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote>I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.</blockquote>Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current size? Thrice the current size? Or is any size insufficient as long as there's class gating? </blockquote><p>I am having a hard time using the mobile site to respond, so hopefully this goes through.
<p>I will feel not boxed in if there are relevant options for just about any combat style for any class. If every class list has archery, twf, shield and 2hand combat options it would go a long way.</blockquote><p>IMO if <i>every</i> class is to have such options, that's better done by expanding the general feats list. Tag the additions with a 'combat feat' trait and let thematic classes also take them as class feats if desired, i.e. imitate PF1. What do you think?
<div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote>But it'd also be preferrable to have feat options for enhancing other spells and actions in a sensible way: for example a divine sorcerer can get heal but doesn't have access to feats to boost it even a fraction of how a cleric can making you boxed into Cleric if you want to expand heal use. </blockquote><p>Hmm. I do want divine sorcerers to have such options, and letting them take them from the cleric class feats would certainly work... but I just don't like declaring open season on class feats in general. It means that when it's time to take a class feat you suddenly have a much longer list of things to look through, most of which are scattered around the rulebook. A big complication over the current system.WatersLethe wrote:Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote: WatersLethe wrote:I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.
Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current size? Thrice the...Fuzzy-Wuzzy2018-08-05T17:03:38ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?WatersLethehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#142018-08-05T14:43:12Z2018-08-05T14:43:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote>I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.</blockquote>Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current size? Thrice the current size? Or is any size insufficient as long as there's class gating? </blockquote><p>I am having a hard time using the mobile site to respond, so hopefully this goes through.
<p>I will feel not boxed in if there are relevant options for just about any combat style for any class. If every class list has archery, twf, shield and 2hand combat options it would go a long way. But it'd also be preferrable to have feat options for enhancing other spells and actions in a sensible way: for example a divine sorcerer can get heal but doesn't have access to feats to boost it even a fraction of how a cleric can making you boxed into Cleric if you want to expand heal use.</p>Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:WatersLethe wrote:I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.
Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current size? Thrice the current size? Or is...WatersLethe2018-08-05T14:43:12ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Grimcleaverhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#132018-08-05T10:36:05Z2018-08-05T10:36:05Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Corwin Icewolf wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Grimcleaver wrote:</div><blockquote> Humans can literally do this with their Ambition Ancestry Feat...well once anyway. It seems pretty great. We were looking at it. </blockquote><p>I don't think they can.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Natural Ambition wrote:</div><blockquote>You were raised to be ambitious and always reach for the stars, causing you to progress quickly in your chosen field. You gain a 1st-level class feat <b>for your class</b></blockquote></blockquote><p>That is a huge bummer. I really liked that. But I see your point and retract mine. Thanks for the catch!Corwin Icewolf wrote:Grimcleaver wrote: Humans can literally do this with their Ambition Ancestry Feat...well once anyway. It seems pretty great. We were looking at it.
I don't think they can. Natural Ambition wrote:You were raised to be ambitious and always reach for the stars, causing you to progress quickly in your chosen field. You gain a 1st-level class feat for your class
That is a huge bummer. I really liked that. But I see your point and retract mine. Thanks for the catch!Grimcleaver2018-08-05T10:36:05ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Alchemaichttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#122018-08-04T20:44:42Z2018-08-04T19:02:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PossibleCabbage wrote:</div><blockquote>It feels genuinely odd to make "punching well" exclusively a monk thing, "competent with crossbows" exclusively a ranger thing, etc. Like these are things that the class in question seems like they should perhaps be better at than anyone else, but not things that have historically been specific to that class. </blockquote><p>So design by buffing instead of design by nerfing.PossibleCabbage wrote:It feels genuinely odd to make "punching well" exclusively a monk thing, "competent with crossbows" exclusively a ranger thing, etc. Like these are things that the class in question seems like they should perhaps be better at than anyone else, but not things that have historically been specific to that class.
So design by buffing instead of design by nerfing.Alchemaic2018-08-04T19:02:12ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?PossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#112018-08-04T21:02:27Z2018-08-04T18:29:09Z<p>It does seem like it's odd that it's genuinely hard to build certain things in certain classes. Like in PF1 you could build virtually anything into an archer as long as it has at least 3/4 BAB (and preferably an accuracy enhancer), nowadays bows are for fighters.</p>
<p>It feels genuinely odd to make "punching well" exclusively a monk thing, "competent with crossbows" exclusively a ranger thing, etc. Like these are things that the class in question seems like they should perhaps be better at than anyone else, but not things that have historically been specific to that class.</p>It does seem like it's odd that it's genuinely hard to build certain things in certain classes. Like in PF1 you could build virtually anything into an archer as long as it has at least 3/4 BAB (and preferably an accuracy enhancer), nowadays bows are for fighters.
It feels genuinely odd to make "punching well" exclusively a monk thing, "competent with crossbows" exclusively a ranger thing, etc. Like these are things that the class in question seems like they should perhaps be better at than...PossibleCabbage2018-08-04T18:29:09ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Fuzzy-Wuzzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#102018-08-04T18:21:19Z2018-08-04T18:21:19Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote>I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.</blockquote><p>Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current size? Thrice the current size? Or is any size insufficient as long as there's class gating?WatersLethe wrote:I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.
Assuming class feats are not un-class-gated, do you have a feel for how much the class feat lists would have to be expanded for you to not feel boxed in like that? Twice the current size? Thrice the current size? Or is any size...Fuzzy-Wuzzy2018-08-04T18:21:19ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Darkorinhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#92018-08-04T16:30:13Z2018-08-04T16:30:13Z<p>The biggest problem I see with that is that the fighter feats will get cannibalized by the other martial characters, which I do not like at all. The fighter is currently in a good place and feel special because of these exclusive feats.</p>
<p>But I do agree that some general class feats that everyone can take would be a nice addition.</p>The biggest problem I see with that is that the fighter feats will get cannibalized by the other martial characters, which I do not like at all. The fighter is currently in a good place and feel special because of these exclusive feats.
But I do agree that some general class feats that everyone can take would be a nice addition.Darkorin2018-08-04T16:30:13ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?WatersLethehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#82018-08-04T20:43:59Z2018-08-04T15:37:14Z<p>So, I think the Class Feats which key off of Class Features would remain distinct enough that opening up the rest would not necessitate the removal of the whole class system.</p>
<p>I don't think a Cleric picking up power attack is a serious breach of class boundaries.</p>
<p>What the silo'd Class Feats do is make it easy to pick up the game as a new player. A more experienced player could say "Yeah, those build paths are nice, but I want to do this other more niche thing, so I'll just pop over to this list and grab this and that."</p>
<p>We've got limited number of actions and reactions gating a lot of the maybe OP combinations (like Nimble Dodge and Quick Shield compete for the same resource)</p>
<p>If anything is overpowered when mixed together, it's likely already going to be a problem with Multiclassing as it stands. </p>
<p>You could add a general rule that says "You can only take Class Feats from a class in which you have X in one of its key ability scores".</p>
<p>I want this because right now, I feel incredibly boxed in when building characters. Far, far more than I was lead to believe I would be. I sincerely believe the health of the game is going to require opening up options one way or another.</p>So, I think the Class Feats which key off of Class Features would remain distinct enough that opening up the rest would not necessitate the removal of the whole class system.
I don't think a Cleric picking up power attack is a serious breach of class boundaries.
What the silo'd Class Feats do is make it easy to pick up the game as a new player. A more experienced player could say "Yeah, those build paths are nice, but I want to do this other more niche thing, so I'll just pop over to this...WatersLethe2018-08-04T15:37:14ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Corwin Icewolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#72018-08-04T13:05:39Z2018-08-04T13:05:39Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Grimcleaver wrote:</div><blockquote> Humans can literally do this with their Ambition Ancestry Feat...well once anyway. It seems pretty great. We were looking at it. </blockquote><p>I don't think they can.
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Natural Ambition wrote:</div><blockquote>You were raised to be ambitious and always reach for the stars, causing you to progress quickly in your chosen field. You gain a 1st-level class feat <b>for your class</b></blockquote><p>Grimcleaver wrote:Humans can literally do this with their Ambition Ancestry Feat...well once anyway. It seems pretty great. We were looking at it.
I don't think they can. Natural Ambition wrote:You were raised to be ambitious and always reach for the stars, causing you to progress quickly in your chosen field. You gain a 1st-level class feat for your classCorwin Icewolf2018-08-04T13:05:39ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Grimcleaverhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#62018-08-04T12:14:08Z2018-08-04T12:14:08Z<p>Humans can literally do this with their Ambition Ancestry Feat...well once anyway. It seems pretty great. We were looking at it.</p>Humans can literally do this with their Ambition Ancestry Feat...well once anyway. It seems pretty great. We were looking at it.Grimcleaver2018-08-04T12:14:08ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Ral' Yarethhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#52018-08-04T08:09:40Z2018-08-04T08:09:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">WatersLethe wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Hear me out. Lots of Class Feats have built-in prerequisites, like Rage, Spells, Spell Points, or other class features.</p>
<p>The Class Feats that don't so far look to be pretty reasonable choices for other classes to take. At least, based on my browsing.</p>
<p>If Class Feats were unlocked, what would that mean? Keeping in mind, if something is too class specific or powerful it could be locked back up with an arbitrary prerequisite or trait.</p>
<p>Here are some examples of pre-requisiteless Class Feats that would be opened up:</p>
<p>Alchemist:
<br />
Alchemical Familiar - Get a familiar
<br />
Alchemical Savant (Trained in Arcana) - Identify alchemical items
<br />
Far Lobber - Throw bombs better
<br />
Quick Bomber - Throw bombs faster
<br />
Calculated Splash - Use int to throw bombs better
<br />
Poison Resistance - Resist poison</p>
<p>Barbarian:
<br />
Sudden Charge - charge better
<br />
Internal Fortitude - Recover from sickness better</p>
<p>Bard:
<br />
Bardic Lore - recall knowledge on any topic
<br />
Steady Spellcasting - lessen spell disruption</p>
<p>Cleric:
<br />
Communal Healing - bonus to casting Heal spell
<br />
Emblazon Symbol - make an item a divine focus
<br />
Healing Hands - boost Heal spell
<br />
Holy Castigation - use Heal to damage devils and demons
<br />
Life Sapping - casting harm heals you
<br />
Turn Undead - Heal can cause undead to flee on a crit
<br />
Irresistible Energy - Remove some heal resistance from target</p>
<p>Druid:
<br />
Animal Companion - get a pet (might need to be class locked)
<br />
Leshy Familiar - gain a familiar
<br />
Reach Spell - increase spell range
<br />
Storm Born - reduce weather penalties
<br />
Widen Spell - Increase spell area
<br />
Wild Shape - use Pest Form 1/day (might need to be locked)
<br />
Poison Resistance - Resist poison
<br />
Savage Slice - Add a die of damage to second attack
<br />
Steady Spellcasting - lessen spell disruption</p>
<p>Fighter:
<br />
[The majority are PF1e Combat Feats or similar]</p>
<p>Monk:
<br />
[Basically all stances]
<br />
Ki Strike - gain ki spell points (might need to be locked)
<br />
Monastic Weaponry - proficiency with monk weapons based on your unarmed proficiency
<br />
Stunning Fist - stun with an unarmed strike... </blockquote><p>At that point, wouldn't it be just easier to do away with classes?WatersLethe wrote:Hear me out. Lots of Class Feats have built-in prerequisites, like Rage, Spells, Spell Points, or other class features.
The Class Feats that don't so far look to be pretty reasonable choices for other classes to take. At least, based on my browsing.
If Class Feats were unlocked, what would that mean? Keeping in mind, if something is too class specific or powerful it could be locked back up with an arbitrary prerequisite or trait.
Here are some examples of...Ral' Yareth2018-08-04T08:09:40ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Yun E. Bearshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#42018-08-04T17:20:58Z2018-08-04T02:24:10Z<p>I'm not sure. How about this, maybe we keep feats gated through class, but we create "weaker" dedication feats that have stronger prerreqs that give a simpler benefit and access to the feats if you are already close to the class in class features. For example </p>
<p>Alternate Fighter Dedication: Prerrequisites: Trained in simple and martial armors, trained in light, medium and heavy armor.
<br />
Benefit: You gain a first level fighter feat. This feat counts as Fighter Dedication for the purpose of meeting feat prerrequisites. </p>
<p>Just like that, as it is Paladins and Rangers gain nothing out of the standard fighter dedication, yet have to pay the full cost.</p>I'm not sure. How about this, maybe we keep feats gated through class, but we create "weaker" dedication feats that have stronger prerreqs that give a simpler benefit and access to the feats if you are already close to the class in class features. For example
Alternate Fighter Dedication: Prerrequisites: Trained in simple and martial armors, trained in light, medium and heavy armor.
Benefit: You gain a first level fighter feat. This feat counts as Fighter Dedication for the purpose of...Yun E. Bears2018-08-04T02:24:10ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?WatersLethehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#32018-08-05T18:28:38Z2018-08-04T02:06:49Z<p>I'd be all for it if it increases my build options. I shouldn't necessarily have to multiclass to power attack as a Cleric for example. </p>
<p>If it's important to limit them •somehow• they could add an ability score requirement that unlocks a class's list.</p>I'd be all for it if it increases my build options. I shouldn't necessarily have to multiclass to power attack as a Cleric for example.
If it's important to limit them *somehow* they could add an ability score requirement that unlocks a class's list.WatersLethe2018-08-04T02:06:49ZRe: Forums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?Malckuss76https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#22018-08-03T22:58:34Z2018-08-03T22:58:34Z<p>Would be a more freeform approach to multiclassing. Ironically, the second iteration of multiclassing that was introduced in 4e essentially did this, while keeping interaction to a minimum, which was odd...</p>Would be a more freeform approach to multiclassing. Ironically, the second iteration of multiclassing that was introduced in 4e essentially did this, while keeping interaction to a minimum, which was odd...Malckuss762018-08-03T22:58:34ZForums: Classes: Should a character be able to select Class Feats from any class without restriction?WatersLethehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2va0j?Should-a-character-be-able-to-select-Class#12018-08-03T21:39:16Z2018-08-03T15:11:56Z<p>Hear me out. Lots of Class Feats have built-in prerequisites, like Rage, Spells, Spell Points, or other class features.</p>
<p>The Class Feats that don't so far look to be pretty reasonable choices for other classes to take. At least, based on my browsing.</p>
<p>If Class Feats were unlocked, what would that mean? Keeping in mind, if something is too class specific or powerful it could be locked back up with an arbitrary prerequisite or trait.</p>
<p>Here are some examples of pre-requisiteless Class Feats that would be opened up:</p>
<p>Alchemist:
<br />
Alchemical Familiar - Get a familiar
<br />
Alchemical Savant (Trained in Arcana) - Identify alchemical items
<br />
Far Lobber - Throw bombs better
<br />
Quick Bomber - Throw bombs faster
<br />
Calculated Splash - Use int to throw bombs better
<br />
Poison Resistance - Resist poison</p>
<p>Barbarian:
<br />
Sudden Charge - charge better
<br />
Internal Fortitude - Recover from sickness better</p>
<p>Bard:
<br />
Bardic Lore - recall knowledge on any topic
<br />
Steady Spellcasting - lessen spell disruption</p>
<p>Cleric:
<br />
Communal Healing - bonus to casting Heal spell
<br />
Emblazon Symbol - make an item a divine focus
<br />
Healing Hands - boost Heal spell
<br />
Holy Castigation - use Heal to damage devils and demons
<br />
Life Sapping - casting harm heals you
<br />
Turn Undead - Heal can cause undead to flee on a crit
<br />
Irresistible Energy - Remove some heal resistance from target</p>
<p>Druid:
<br />
Animal Companion - get a pet (might need to be class locked)
<br />
Leshy Familiar - gain a familiar
<br />
Reach Spell - increase spell range
<br />
Storm Born - reduce weather penalties
<br />
Widen Spell - Increase spell area
<br />
Wild Shape - use Pest Form 1/day (might need to be locked)
<br />
Poison Resistance - Resist poison
<br />
Savage Slice - Add a die of damage to second attack
<br />
Steady Spellcasting - lessen spell disruption</p>
<p>Fighter:
<br />
[The majority are PF1e Combat Feats or similar]</p>
<p>Monk:
<br />
[Basically all stances]
<br />
Ki Strike - gain ki spell points (might need to be locked)
<br />
Monastic Weaponry - proficiency with monk weapons based on your unarmed proficiency
<br />
Stunning Fist - stun with an unarmed strike
<br />
Brawling Focus - critical specialization with brawling weapons
<br />
Crushing Grab - str damage while grappling
<br />
Dancing Leaf - increase jump distance, reduce damage from falling near wall
<br />
Deflect Arrow - bonus to ac against ranged attack
<br />
Flying kick - jump and make an attack</p>
<p>Paladin:
<br />
Hospice Knight - medicine training
<br />
Divine Grace - reaction bonus to a saving throw (might need to be locked)
<br />
Aura of Courage - reduce fear effects for you and allies (might need to be locked)
<br />
Divine Health - resistant to diseases
<br />
Attack of Opportunity - you know</p>
<p>Ranger:
<br />
Animal Companion - get a pet (might need to be locked)
<br />
Double Slice - combine two attacks into one
<br />
Monster Hunter - bonuses to attack for identifying monster
<br />
Quickdraw - interact and strike at once
<br />
Running Reload - reload during movement
<br />
Scout's Warning - give bonus to team's initiative rolls
<br />
Twin Parry - Bonus to ac with two weapons
<br />
Skirmish Strike - move and attack, or attack and move
<br />
Wild Empathy - Diplomacy animals</p>
<p>Rogue:
<br />
Nimble Dodge - Reaction to gain bonus to AC
<br />
Trap Finder - bonuses to dealing with traps
<br />
You're next - Use reaction to intimidate after killing
<br />
Footpad's Focus - critical specialization effect for certain weapons
<br />
Mobility - half speed movement does not trigger reactions
<br />
Quickdraw - same
<br />
Sniper's Aim - Ignore concealment for the rest of your turn
<br />
Battle Assessment - learn about an enemy
<br />
Dread Striker - feared enemies are flat footed for you
<br />
Poison Weapon - add poison to a weapon for a turn
<br />
Reactive Pursuit - chase an enemy as a reaction
<br />
Running Reload - reload during movement
<br />
Sabotage - attempt to break an item with a thievery check</p>
<p>Sorcerer:
<br />
Counterspell - Reaction to spend a slot to attempt a dispel
<br />
Dangerous Sorcery - add bonus to spell damage
<br />
Familiar - gain a familiar
<br />
Reach Spell - metamagic
<br />
Widen Spell - metamagic
<br />
Conceal Spell - metamagic
<br />
Magical Striker - cast a spell and gain a bonus to nonmagical weapon
<br />
Resilient Concentration - give bonuses to spells on allies that you're concentrating on
<br />
Steady Spellcasting - less chance to be disrupted
<br />
Vicious Concentration - add damage to concentrate spell</p>
<p>Wizard:
<br />
Counterspell - same
<br />
Eschew Materials - replace material component with somatic
<br />
Familiar - gain a familiar
<br />
Reach Spell - metamagic
<br />
Widen Spell - metamagic
<br />
Conceal Spell - metamagic
<br />
Magical Striker - same
<br />
Quick Preparation - if you use a spellbook, you can swap spells in 10 minutes
<br />
Steady Spellcasting - same</p>Hear me out. Lots of Class Feats have built-in prerequisites, like Rage, Spells, Spell Points, or other class features.
The Class Feats that don't so far look to be pretty reasonable choices for other classes to take. At least, based on my browsing.
If Class Feats were unlocked, what would that mean? Keeping in mind, if something is too class specific or powerful it could be locked back up with an arbitrary prerequisite or trait.
Here are some examples of pre-requisiteless Class Feats that...WatersLethe2018-08-03T15:11:56Z