Please help me! On the surface, this spell seems totally useless, but I'm sure its not!
Pathfinder has no Concentration skill, so casters need not worry about loosing their casting spell, and no damage is listed, nor any mention of any negative effects the swarm might have on characters within the swarm, such as lack of vision, -attack rate, -movement, anything...
Also, the Area of Effect is a Swarm... what does that mean? How big is a Swarm on the battlefield? one 5'-square? If there is no limit, why can't a wizard make it 100' and keep concentrating to summon more critters until the cloud of vermin is enormous in size?
This spell seems very poorly worded to me and in its current state, is very confusing.
Follow the links from here:
Bat Swarm
Rat Swarm
Spider Swarm
I've found the bat swarm to be the most useful, since the others require really easy fort saves to resist their special abilities, but the rat swarm has the most health and the spider swarm is weapon-proof.
Also: Swarm traits
Looking at the text for the various swarms, a related question occured to me.
The individual swarms has an entry of distraction (dc 11), but the swarm trait rules state that the caster level check is DC 20 + spell level.
Swarms possess the distraction universal monster rule. Spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of a swarm requires a caster level check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a DC 20 Will save.
So, anyone know which one is right?
Looking at the text for the various swarms, a related question occured to me.
The individual swarms has an entry of distraction (dc 11), but the swarm trait rules state that the caster level check is DC 20 + spell level.Swarms possess the distraction universal monster rule. Spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of a swarm requires a caster level check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a DC 20 Will save.So, anyone know which one is right?
The DC is for the distraction ability, which is separate from the additional rules for swarms (although they're confusingly joined).
The DC is for the distraction ability, which is separate from the additional rules for swarms (although they're confusingly joined).Looking at the text for the various swarms, a related question occured to me.
The individual swarms has an entry of distraction (dc 11), but the swarm trait rules state that the caster level check is DC 20 + spell level.Swarms possess the distraction universal monster rule. Spellcasting or concentrating on spells within the area of a swarm requires a caster level check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a DC 20 Will save.So, anyone know which one is right?
Thank you, that clears that one up:)
I have seen the ups and downs of the swarms/swarm spells in my CotCT campaign. And I am still not sure whether to dread them or shrug them off.
Batswarm cast on flying(hovering) halfling necromancer: Necro passed his checks and flew out of range, much to the chagrin of the party's fighter.
Ratswarm cast on Tiefling sorcerer: tiefling had no aoe spell and died screaming behind the counter.
Ratswarm swarms party caster: misses on save and fries the rats in next round, torching himself with burning hands in the process.
Makes me wonder, how actually DO you get rid of a swarm?
Rules say (PRD) that [sic]:
A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms) if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.
So would you rule that someone casting e.g. burning hands on the swarm they are in will take spell damage without save? I mean, they actually are dowsing themselves in flames.
I am sure to see a lot of summoning action going on in my campaign since both the sorcerer as well as the oracle specialise in summoning.
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The biggest headache, as a GM, regarding swarms, is the continuation of the 3.5 rules that each is a 4-square entity.
This creates so many metagame issues, it's not true.
Remembering which squares belong to which swarm, and the wildly variable effects resulting from flaming four squares of one swarm, or one square each from four swarms...(which is somehow 4x as effective)...burning one visible square, and having that kill the vermin on an ally out of sight, ugh, the list goes on.
Is there a good historical reason for the 'four-square swarm', rather than giving stats for one squares worth of creatures, and having each summoning bring four squares worth?
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The biggest headache, as a GM, regarding swarms, is the continuation of the 3.5 rules that each is a 4-square entity.
Perhaps for pen&paper games. I play with a VTT so all of the tracking is done for me. No muss, no fuss. :)
The biggest headache, as a GM, regarding swarms, is the continuation of the 3.5 rules that each is a 4-square entity.Perhaps for pen&paper games. I play with a VTT so all of the tracking is done for me. No muss, no fuss. :)
That has got to be one of the coolest programs I have seen to date!
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I was reading summon swarm spell and noticed that is states,
"If no living creatures are within its area, the swarm attacks or pursues the nearest creature as best it can."
Does this also include undead? I know undead are not living creatures, but they are also not really dead. Has there been any clarification on this?