Mutagen in use and making a new Mutagen

[Diego Rossi]

I have a doubt about the Alchemist Mutagen:

AeO wrote:

An alchemist can only maintain one dose of mutagen at a time—if he brews a second dose, any existing mutagen becomes inert.

...
an alchemist can gain the effects of another alchemist’s mutagen if he drinks it. (Although if the other alchemist creates a different mutagen, the effects of the “stolen” mutagen immediately cease.)

What happens if an Alchemist above level six under the effect of his own mutagen brews a new dose?

Strictly RAW, the past does become inert, but it has already been used and its effect doesn't stop as he isn't "another alchemist".
RAI seems to be that the Mutagen effect stops.

Someone know if it has been cleared somewhere?

[Pizza Lord]

I agree that the RAI seem to indicate that the alchemist's imbibed mutagen seems to cease functioning if they brew another. Since the 'other' alchemist's mutagen would cease working when they brew it, logically and in any associated relationship or situation, 'the' alchemist's mutagen would do the same (whether imbibed themselves or by another alchemist.)

[Trokarr]

I do not believe the intent here is for the effects of an alchemists own mutagen to end on brewing a new mutagen. If that was the intent they could have just stated “When an alchemist brews a mutagen the effects of any previously ingested mutagen end immediately.” This would have covered ending any mutagen ingested by the Alchemist AND any “stolen” mutagens at the same time. Instead they singled out only the “stolen” mutagen’s effects to end on brewing a new mutagen. That’s my take on it anyway. Others may see it differently.

[AwesomenessDog]

I don't think the RAI was ever intended to exist, because it's basically implied that brewing a mutagen requires you to be at your (portable) alchemy lab to even make the thing, i.e. not in the middle of combat or anything where your stats are at all pertinent.

[Diego Rossi]

AwesomenessDog wrote:

I don't think the RAI was ever intended to exist, because it's basically implied that brewing a mutagen requires you to be at your (portable) alchemy lab to even make the thing, i.e. not in the middle of combat or anything where your stats are at all pertinent.

It is mostly for the guy in another thread who wants to weaponize the mutagen, using it to make someone sick.

[AwesomenessDog]

Oh well then how are they getting around the time to create it, doesn't matter if they're sickened, the time to create the thing will mean one way or another, the combat is over 1 hour later.

[Diego Rossi]

AwesomenessDog wrote:

Oh well then how are they getting around the time to create it, doesn't matter if they're sickened, the time to create the thing will mean one way or another, the combat is over 1 hour later.

When the alchemist reaches level 7 the Mutagen effect lasts 70 minutes (and more with more levels), so they could have one use of the Mutagen as a sickening agent during a 10-minute speed run.

I wouldn't be particularly interested in that, as the benefit is limited, but some players see the time spent preparing for an encounter (or crafting, or training an animal companion) as a "training montage" and inconsequential for the story.

Alternatively, it is possible that the guy floating that idea simply hadn't noticed that you can't have multiple doses of Mutagen prepared at the same time.

[AwesomenessDog]

Diego Rossi wrote:

AwesomenessDog wrote:

Oh well then how are they getting around the time to create it, doesn't matter if they're sickened, the time to create the thing will mean one way or another, the combat is over 1 hour later.

When the alchemist reaches level 7 the Mutagen effect lasts 70 minutes (and more with more levels), so they could have one use of the Mutagen as a sickening agent during a 10-minute speed run.

Okay, but the order of operations is still spend 1 hour to make mutagen 1, inject the mutagen into a creature, spend another hour with the mutagen in effect nauseating the enemy (assuming failed save) and also making another mutagen, but then somehow after an hour of the creature not being dead, you can stick them again.

I'd assume the drunk mutagen likewise becomes inert when you make the second, thus undoing your bonuses and making that speedrun non-existent.

[Joesi]

Game rules don't specify so its up to you.

However I will say that if something becomes inert, so should it's effects. So both from a logical guess of intent and just logical mechanics would be for its effects to end once the other mutagen is finished.

Overall it seems inconsequential though since nauseating a single enemy at level 7 if it fails a fort save doesn't seem like an issue when it also would require using some costly ability Like Poisoners Gloves or Touch Injection to deliver the Mutagen.

To me it feels like allowing a player to do this is like allowing them to self-sabotage themselves and/or the party due to it's costs of time and abilities to pull off for such a weak effect.