paizo.com Recent Posts in Bad Gorumpaizo.com Recent Posts in Bad Gorum2018-08-03T22:20:37Z2018-08-03T22:20:37ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumBjørn Røyrvikhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1492018-09-02T08:54:38Z2018-09-02T08:54:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Seventh Seal wrote:</div><blockquote> This isn't Mystara... </blockquote><p>No but the point is that there is precedent and lots of good in-universe reasons why gods would have restrictions on follower alignments.Seventh Seal wrote:This isn't Mystara...
No but the point is that there is precedent and lots of good in-universe reasons why gods would have restrictions on follower alignments.Bjørn Røyrvik2018-09-02T08:54:38ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumRyan Freirehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1482018-09-02T08:15:58Z2018-09-02T08:15:58Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Darth Bass wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">James Jacobs wrote:</div><blockquote> The tightening of the alignments is ABSOLUTELY story driven, and intended to curtail certain types of clerics who didn't make thematic sense with their deity. By abandoning general rules for allowed alignments and custom designing each deity's allowed alignments we have a lot more flexibility.</blockquote><p>"Flexibility?" That word you use, I don't think it means what you think it means.
<p>What I have read here, as many of my fellow players have already pointed it, is that the current alignments and restrictions put into place do the exact opposite of that.</p>
<p>You say it is not to stifle creativity but I am afraid that is exactly what it does, despite claims to the contrary. </blockquote><p>People should really stop confusing creativity with playing against theme.
<p>I'm sorry but the radically different from type backstory isn't creative, its just radically different from type. Moreover gorum's church is even in pf1 noted to lean CE. Removing CG is just removing the design philosophy of 1 step removed that was kept from 3rd edition. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Inner Sea Gods wrote:</div><blockquote>. His followers tend to be impulsive, violent, and prone to grabbing whatever they feel like owning; as a result, there are far more evil followers of Gorum than good</blockquote><p>This does not a CG friendly peer group make.Darth Bass wrote:James Jacobs wrote: The tightening of the alignments is ABSOLUTELY story driven, and intended to curtail certain types of clerics who didn't make thematic sense with their deity. By abandoning general rules for allowed alignments and custom designing each deity's allowed alignments we have a lot more flexibility.
"Flexibility?" That word you use, I don't think it means what you think it means. What I have read here, as many of my fellow players have already pointed it, is...Ryan Freire2018-09-02T08:15:58ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumSeventh Seal (alias of Psiphyre)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1472018-08-31T18:08:52Z2018-08-31T18:08:52Z<p>This isn't Mystara...</p>This isn't Mystara...Seventh Seal (alias of Psiphyre)2018-08-31T18:08:52ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumBjørn Røyrvikhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1462018-08-31T11:54:04Z2018-08-31T11:54:04Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">PossibleCabbage wrote:</div><blockquote><p> As far as I know there have never been alignment restrictions on people who worship gods, but do not receive power from those gods or serve as an official representative of those gods.
</p>
</blockquote><p>Mystara had follower alignment restrictions.PossibleCabbage wrote:As far as I know there have never been alignment restrictions on people who worship gods, but do not receive power from those gods or serve as an official representative of those gods.
Mystara had follower alignment restrictions.Bjørn Røyrvik2018-08-31T11:54:04ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumPossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1452018-08-30T04:24:03Z2018-08-30T04:24:03Z<p>As far as I know there have never been alignment restrictions on people who worship gods, but do not receive power from those gods or serve as an official representative of those gods.</p>
<p>Like you could have a Lawful Good fighter who worships Rovagug, by the rules; the reason not to play this sort of thing is "I can't make sense of who this person is and don't find it interesting" not "the rules prohibit it."</p>
<p>Like we've had multiple oracles in games whose power, it turned out, was granted by someone diametrically opposed along some axis to the alignment of the oracle who received the power (I mean, what good being is going to grant you access to the dark tapestry mystery exactly.)</p>As far as I know there have never been alignment restrictions on people who worship gods, but do not receive power from those gods or serve as an official representative of those gods.
Like you could have a Lawful Good fighter who worships Rovagug, by the rules; the reason not to play this sort of thing is "I can't make sense of who this person is and don't find it interesting" not "the rules prohibit it."
Like we've had multiple oracles in games whose power, it turned out, was granted by...PossibleCabbage2018-08-30T04:24:03ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumNemisCassanderhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1442018-08-30T04:18:58Z2018-08-30T04:18:58Z<p>Y'know, I really like the idea upthread that a Deity could have Common and Uncommon alignments for Clerics. This would allow for mechanics that would allow you to be an Uncommon alignment as a cleric of that Deity.</p>
<p>Don't change the anathema at all. Just loosen the alignment a bit.</p>
<p>(As a side note, I am all for the idea that each character can, with GM approval, choose a single Uncommon thing—spell, item, choice, etc.—at character creation. This would slot RIGHT into that.)</p>
<p>Also, wouldn't it be interesting if multiclass Clerics would not be required to follow the alignment of the deity as closely? I mean, you're not getting as much power as a full Cleric, so the deity in question might let the alignment thing slide a bit...</p>
<p>Or... even more, to pull off the redemption/corruption thing, make the required alignment contingent on some (high-level spells) but not all (spellcasting in general) aspects of the class. </p>
<p>This would allow, for example, a Fighter/Cleric of Gorum to be CG, but not a Cleric of Gorum, because he's less affiliated with the hierarchy, NOT drawing as much power, and thus can be less focused?</p>Y'know, I really like the idea upthread that a Deity could have Common and Uncommon alignments for Clerics. This would allow for mechanics that would allow you to be an Uncommon alignment as a cleric of that Deity.
Don't change the anathema at all. Just loosen the alignment a bit.
(As a side note, I am all for the idea that each character can, with GM approval, choose a single Uncommon thing--spell, item, choice, etc.--at character creation. This would slot RIGHT into that.)
Also, wouldn't...NemisCassander2018-08-30T04:18:58ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumRocMeAsmodeushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1432018-08-30T07:39:03Z2018-08-30T03:34:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Knight Magenta wrote:</div><blockquote> I would like it if we just dropped deity alignment and used anathemas to control which clerics can worship whom. I think anathemas are much more clear role-play hooks then alignment, especially since no two people can agree on what Chaos and Law are. </blockquote><p>I second this idea. Concrete rules are better guides for behavior than alignments, which can be subjective. My characters who worship Gorum tend to act lawful good, despite being chaotic neutral on paper, and I’ve never been warned that I was close to violating Gorum’s tenets.Knight Magenta wrote:I would like it if we just dropped deity alignment and used anathemas to control which clerics can worship whom. I think anathemas are much more clear role-play hooks then alignment, especially since no two people can agree on what Chaos and Law are.
I second this idea. Concrete rules are better guides for behavior than alignments, which can be subjective. My characters who worship Gorum tend to act lawful good, despite being chaotic neutral on paper, and I’ve never been...RocMeAsmodeus2018-08-30T03:34:26ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumJason Shttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1422018-08-30T04:57:14Z2018-08-29T16:06:38Z<p>At first I thought the more strict cleric alignment restrictions would be good, but now I am not so sure (for myself personally). If it irritates several gamers, I'd say don't do it, keep it as it was in PF1.</p>At first I thought the more strict cleric alignment restrictions would be good, but now I am not so sure (for myself personally). If it irritates several gamers, I'd say don't do it, keep it as it was in PF1.Jason S2018-08-29T16:06:38ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumOverworkedDMhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1412018-08-29T12:30:25Z2018-08-29T12:30:25Z<p>Considering the desire to make the religions more themed however going into alignment discussions is going to never result in a consistent answer. We have as a society been inventing morality systems since the Greeks. As I think has been shown by this message board refining the same god into to several different alignments. </p>
<p>I would as a GM prefer a vow/commandment/tenant system. </p>
<p>Thou shall encourage free love,
<br />
Thou shall revere cats
<br />
Thou shall protect peoples home. </p>
<p>The above should make the clergy thematically consistent while avoiding the pitfall of alignment restrictions.</p>Considering the desire to make the religions more themed however going into alignment discussions is going to never result in a consistent answer. We have as a society been inventing morality systems since the Greeks. As I think has been shown by this message board refining the same god into to several different alignments.
I would as a GM prefer a vow/commandment/tenant system.
Thou shall encourage free love,
Thou shall revere cats
Thou shall protect peoples home.
The above should make...OverworkedDM2018-08-29T12:30:25ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumMidsouthGuyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1402018-08-30T04:57:09Z2018-08-25T10:28:10Z<p>As someone who has been playing the same CN Cleric of Lamashtu for years, I absolutely loathe the newer, more restrictive rules for Cleric alignment. The explanation as to why it was done has taken some sting off of it, but I'm still hoping those rules for Heretics and splinter faiths previously mentioned are among the earliest supplements released for PF2, or my group will be sticking to first edition.</p>As someone who has been playing the same CN Cleric of Lamashtu for years, I absolutely loathe the newer, more restrictive rules for Cleric alignment. The explanation as to why it was done has taken some sting off of it, but I'm still hoping those rules for Heretics and splinter faiths previously mentioned are among the earliest supplements released for PF2, or my group will be sticking to first edition.MidsouthGuy2018-08-25T10:28:10ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad Gorumj b 200https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1392018-08-17T22:08:20Z2018-08-17T22:08:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> It's okay really. I am used to seeing CN used as CE-lite. Seeing it used as CG-lite will be a novelty but nothing unbearable ;-)</p>
<p>Sidenote : if PFS still enforces the no Evil PC rule, what will happen of the previously-LN PFS Clerics of Asmodeus ? </blockquote><p>Switch to LN for Abadar or Zon-Kuthon?
<p>Looking at the Deity list, out of 6 Evil deities, only 2 allow non-evil alignments. Zon-Kuthon allows LN and Norgorber allows N, but only if you worship the Reaper of Reputation aspect. Seems like a concerted effort to reduce the number of "I worship evil, but <i>I'm</i> not evil" PCs. I would imagine once we get full anathema for each deity it would become more clear. As someone stated above, it's hard to be capital G Good if you insist on beating everyone to a bloody pulp that sneers in your general direction. </p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> It just strikes me that Gorum and Iomedae will gift their Clerics with very similar domains despite near-opposite alignment restrictions while those who meet the Goodness of Iomedae and the Chaos of Gorum cannot in any way get these domains</p>
<p>What makes Zeal and Confidence antithetical to CG but not to LG, NG, CN or CE ?</blockquote><p>With the number of Demigods, lesser deities, "other" pantheons, and spell-granting empyrial/demon/etc lords, it is unlikely that any one alignment will be locked out of all but the most opposed domains. Just looking at CG gods, Marishi and Milani could have either or both of those domains. That's before going into CN or NG that allow CG clerics.The Raven Black wrote:It's okay really. I am used to seeing CN used as CE-lite. Seeing it used as CG-lite will be a novelty but nothing unbearable ;-)
Sidenote : if PFS still enforces the no Evil PC rule, what will happen of the previously-LN PFS Clerics of Asmodeus ?
Switch to LN for Abadar or Zon-Kuthon? Looking at the Deity list, out of 6 Evil deities, only 2 allow non-evil alignments. Zon-Kuthon allows LN and Norgorber allows N, but only if you worship the Reaper of Reputation aspect....j b 2002018-08-17T22:08:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumThe Raven Blackhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1382018-08-17T20:55:49Z2018-08-17T20:55:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">j b 200 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I see Cayden as a god of the tavern brawl, not of the battlefield so it is still a problem to me </p>
<p>On a purely mechanic point, if you are looking to get the Confidence or Zeal domains, both Gorum and Iomedae will provide. But not Cayden nor Calistria. In fact as CG you just cannot get those two domains </blockquote>What is wrong with some domains not being accessible to all Alignments? </blockquote><p>It just strikes me that Gorum and Iomedae will gift their Clerics with very similar domains despite near-opposite alignment restrictions while those who meet the Goodness of Iomedae and the Chaos of Gorum cannot in any way get these domains
<p>What makes Zeal and Confidence antithetical to CG but not to LG, NG, CN or CE ?</p>j b 200 wrote:The Raven Black wrote:I see Cayden as a god of the tavern brawl, not of the battlefield so it is still a problem to me
On a purely mechanic point, if you are looking to get the Confidence or Zeal domains, both Gorum and Iomedae will provide. But not Cayden nor Calistria. In fact as CG you just cannot get those two domains
What is wrong with some domains not being accessible to all Alignments? It just strikes me that Gorum and Iomedae will gift their Clerics with very similar...The Raven Black2018-08-17T20:55:49ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumKnight Magentahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1372018-09-01T07:19:24Z2018-08-17T20:48:30Z<p>I would like it if we just dropped deity alignment and used anathemas to control which clerics can worship whom. I think anathemas are much more clear role-play hooks then alignment, especially since no two people can agree on what Chaos and Law are.</p>I would like it if we just dropped deity alignment and used anathemas to control which clerics can worship whom. I think anathemas are much more clear role-play hooks then alignment, especially since no two people can agree on what Chaos and Law are.Knight Magenta2018-08-17T20:48:30ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumThe Raven Blackhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1362018-08-17T20:47:28Z2018-08-17T20:47:28Z<p>It's okay really. I am used to seeing CN used as CE-lite. Seeing it used as CG-lite will be a novelty but nothing unbearable ;-)</p>
<p>Sidenote : if PFS still enforces the no Evil PC rule, what will happen of the previously-LN PFS Clerics of Asmodeus ?</p>It's okay really. I am used to seeing CN used as CE-lite. Seeing it used as CG-lite will be a novelty but nothing unbearable ;-)
Sidenote : if PFS still enforces the no Evil PC rule, what will happen of the previously-LN PFS Clerics of Asmodeus ?The Raven Black2018-08-17T20:47:28ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad Gorumj b 200https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1352018-08-17T20:47:15Z2018-08-17T20:47:15Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I see Cayden as a god of the tavern brawl, not of the battlefield so it is still a problem to me </p>
<p>On a purely mechanic point, if you are looking to get the Confidence or Zeal domains, both Gorum and Iomedae will provide. But not Cayden nor Calistria. In fact as CG you just cannot get those two domains </blockquote><p>What is wrong with some domains not being accessible to all Alignments?The Raven Black wrote:I see Cayden as a god of the tavern brawl, not of the battlefield so it is still a problem to me
On a purely mechanic point, if you are looking to get the Confidence or Zeal domains, both Gorum and Iomedae will provide. But not Cayden nor Calistria. In fact as CG you just cannot get those two domains
What is wrong with some domains not being accessible to all Alignments?j b 2002018-08-17T20:47:15ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumPossibleCabbagehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1342018-08-17T19:57:45Z2018-08-17T17:09:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd </p>
<p>Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course </p>
<p>That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god </p>
<p>Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if you are CG. Feels most arbitrary to me </blockquote><p>Looking through the list of PF1 deities, having the "War" domain available to a CG character was honestly pretty rare. Aside from Gorum, your options were Besmara; the ancient Osironion deities Neith,Sehkmet, and Sobek; and the Halfling Deity Chaldira. It's not like the War domain is especially rare since 60-some deities get it.
<p>So this might be a deliberate choice. "War" as a concept exists with the purview of "collective effort to accomplish societal goals" (which is lawful) or "carnage for its own sake" (which is not good.)</p>
<p>So it might be that Chaotic Good battle-oriented clerics should consider first and foremost what they are fighting for and focus on that. So Kurgess or Milani or Cayden would be fine choices.</p>The Raven Black wrote:TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd
Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course
That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god
Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if you are CG. Feels...PossibleCabbage2018-08-17T17:09:36ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumThe Raven Blackhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1332018-08-17T16:51:16Z2018-08-17T16:51:16Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mechagamera wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd </p>
<p>Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course </p>
<p>That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god </p>
<p>Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if you are CG. Feels most arbitrary to me </blockquote>If you define war as a legal concept (which it is in the real world), then there is no actual need for any chaos-related god to have it as a domain. A battle domain on the other hand....but Cayden handles that pretty well, so no real problem. </blockquote><p>I see Cayden as a god of the tavern brawl, not of the battlefield so it is still a problem to me
<p>On a purely mechanic point, if you are looking to get the Confidence or Zeal domains, both Gorum and Iomedae will provide. But not Cayden nor Calistria. In fact as CG you just cannot get those two domains</p>Mechagamera wrote:The Raven Black wrote:TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd
Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course
That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god
Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if...The Raven Black2018-08-17T16:51:16ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumMechagamerahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1322018-08-17T14:13:35Z2018-08-17T14:13:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Raven Black wrote:</div><blockquote><p> TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd </p>
<p>Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course </p>
<p>That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god </p>
<p>Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if you are CG. Feels most arbitrary to me </blockquote><p>If you define war as a legal concept (which it is in the real world), then there is no actual need for any chaos-related god to have it as a domain. A battle domain on the other hand....but Cayden handles that pretty well, so no real problem.The Raven Black wrote:TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd
Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course
That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god
Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if you are CG. Feels...Mechagamera2018-08-17T14:13:35ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumZardnaarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1312018-08-17T12:49:18Z2018-08-17T12:49:18Z<p>So Gorum is basically Garagos from FR now?</p>So Gorum is basically Garagos from FR now?Zardnaar2018-08-17T12:49:18ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumTarik Blackhands (alias of ItsTheName)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1302018-08-17T11:40:49Z2018-08-17T11:40:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">FormerFiend wrote:</div><blockquote> I feel that Calistria being allowed CG clerics while Gorum isn't is part of James Jacobs' pro-elf agenda. Can't have the top elven god(even if Jacobs insists that Desna best represents the elves, she's still not part of that pantheon) not allow good worshipers. </blockquote><p>Calistria may be on the iffier end of the scale too but I'd sooner accept CG clerics of her ethos than Gorumite ones. There's nothing wrong (by default anyway) with rolls in the hay and at the very least the premise of "seek retribution over slights done to you" can be done with a degree of proportionality and doesn't de facto go around ruining the lives of bystanders.FormerFiend wrote:I feel that Calistria being allowed CG clerics while Gorum isn't is part of James Jacobs' pro-elf agenda. Can't have the top elven god(even if Jacobs insists that Desna best represents the elves, she's still not part of that pantheon) not allow good worshipers.
Calistria may be on the iffier end of the scale too but I'd sooner accept CG clerics of her ethos than Gorumite ones. There's nothing wrong (by default anyway) with rolls in the hay and at the very least the premise...Tarik Blackhands (alias of ItsTheName)2018-08-17T11:40:49ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumShaheer-El-Khatib (alias of Bastien Beau)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1292018-08-17T09:47:06Z2018-08-17T09:47:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arachnofiend wrote:</div><blockquote> Gorum blesses those who fight for any reason. Whether it be the conquering commander with a greatsword seeking to make his mark on the world or an abused wife with a kitchen knife who has decided enough is enough, any battle of any morality is honored by Gorum. This idea that he prefers evil is, quite frankly, slander perpetuated by those who favor more "civilized" gods. I see no reason why he would dismiss the valor of a wandering chevalier stamping out evil. </blockquote><p>And then in a tavern someone talks about your mom because he don't like you face. Since Diplomacy is not an option you now have to break his nose. Then you fight his friends. Then anyone trying to stop you. When everyone is defeated you order and pay a new beer before you walk home.
<p>I don't see any good character being able to pull that off and still sleep well.</p>Arachnofiend wrote:Gorum blesses those who fight for any reason. Whether it be the conquering commander with a greatsword seeking to make his mark on the world or an abused wife with a kitchen knife who has decided enough is enough, any battle of any morality is honored by Gorum. This idea that he prefers evil is, quite frankly, slander perpetuated by those who favor more "civilized" gods. I see no reason why he would dismiss the valor of a wandering chevalier stamping out evil.
And then in...Shaheer-El-Khatib (alias of Bastien Beau)2018-08-17T09:47:06ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumFormerFiendhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1282018-08-17T09:44:26Z2018-08-17T09:44:26Z<p>I feel that Calistria being allowed CG clerics while Gorum isn't is part of James Jacobs' pro-elf agenda. Can't have the top elven god(even if Jacobs insists that Desna best represents the elves, she's still not part of that pantheon) not allow good worshipers.</p>I feel that Calistria being allowed CG clerics while Gorum isn't is part of James Jacobs' pro-elf agenda. Can't have the top elven god(even if Jacobs insists that Desna best represents the elves, she's still not part of that pantheon) not allow good worshipers.FormerFiend2018-08-17T09:44:26ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumNeriathalehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1272018-08-17T18:39:47Z2018-08-17T08:32:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">The Norv wrote:</div><blockquote> (Someday I'll write up the thirty-page rant in my head about how Abadar is LN but Erastil is LG and the Tolkien-esque fantasy biases that are baked into what are essentially two different gods of community/civilization. But I was also really happy to see the Vault and Chain in War for the Crown!) </blockquote><p>If you do I'll stick it next to my "Abadar is LE - A Britsh perspective" rant.The Norv wrote:(Someday I'll write up the thirty-page rant in my head about how Abadar is LN but Erastil is LG and the Tolkien-esque fantasy biases that are baked into what are essentially two different gods of community/civilization. But I was also really happy to see the Vault and Chain in War for the Crown!)
If you do I'll stick it next to my "Abadar is LE - A Britsh perspective" rant.Neriathale2018-08-17T08:32:56ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumThe Raven Blackhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1262018-08-17T07:52:46Z2018-08-17T07:52:46Z<p>TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd </p>
<p>Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course </p>
<p>That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god </p>
<p>Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if you are CG. Feels most arbitrary to me</p>TBH the idea that Gorum will not grant powers to someone who is just as eager for a fight as the next one just because one fights to protect while the other fights to destroy strikes me as odd
Obviously the first one could turn to Iomedae, except if they are CG of course
That leaves CG fighting Clerics with Cayden Cailean or Calistria but none of them are a war god
Seems that War is something you can worship if you are LG or NG or CN or CE but not if you are CG. Feels most arbitrary to meThe Raven Black2018-08-17T07:52:46ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Playtest General Discussion: Bad GorumFormerFiendhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9qi&page=3?Bad-Gorum#1252018-09-02T13:13:13Z2018-08-16T08:17:25Z<p>Khorne's never been my touch stone for Gorum - I've never been a big Warhammer fan - so I've never looked at Gorum as the "blood for the blood god" god. I see the parallels but I do tend to look at him more as indifferent in a way that he's not going to give you a lot of help, but he will challenge you to do for yourself and be your best, strongest self, and whether that strongest self is good or bad is up to you.</p>
<p>We've got three prominent... okay, two prominent demigods devoted to the evils of war in Szuriel and Moloch, plus the somewhat less prominent Nurgal, plus the entirety of the orc pantheon, a few members of the giant pantheon, Rovagug & Susumu, and several other archfiends representing the evil side of war. </p>
<p>You don't need to push Gorum in that direction. It's covered.</p>Khorne's never been my touch stone for Gorum - I've never been a big Warhammer fan - so I've never looked at Gorum as the "blood for the blood god" god. I see the parallels but I do tend to look at him more as indifferent in a way that he's not going to give you a lot of help, but he will challenge you to do for yourself and be your best, strongest self, and whether that strongest self is good or bad is up to you.
We've got three prominent... okay, two prominent demigods devoted to the evils...FormerFiend2018-08-16T08:17:25Z