Sorcerer Class Feats


Classes


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Am I the only one surprised and disappointed that Sorcerers only get 6 class feats? Especially when Wizards get 8? I was under the impression that all classes got 10 class feats, with the exception of fighters who get more. I wanted to recreate an Arcanist by taking the Wizard archetype, but doing so leaves me with virtually no sorcerer feats. In fact, with only 6 class feats, Sorcerers are severely discouraged from partaking in any archetype. Is this an oversight, or by design?


I think the rationale was that you get to pick Bloodline Powers instead.

I don't think they had archetypes in mind when they put it together, though.


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Geminus wrote:
Am I the only one surprised and disappointed that Sorcerers only get 6 class feats? Especially when Wizards get 8? I was under the impression that all classes got 10 class feats, with the exception of fighters who get more. I wanted to recreate an Arcanist by taking the Wizard archetype, but doing so leaves me with virtually no sorcerer feats. In fact, with only 6 class feats, Sorcerers are severely discouraged from partaking in any archetype. Is this an oversight, or by design?

I was surprised as well, but then I really looked at it, and I have come to believe that it's by design. At levels 6 & 10, instead of getting a feat as the other caster classes do, they get a bloodline power, and more spell points, which is roughly equivalent.


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Secret Wizard wrote:

I think the rationale was that you get to pick Bloodline Powers instead.

I don't think they had archetypes in mind when they put it together, though.

I suppose I get the bloodline power argument, but I personally don't feel as if bloodline powers are adequate substitutes for class feats. Its not as if you get to pick from multiple bloodline powers. You select your bloodline at level 1, and from then on out, all other choices (bloodline spells, powers, skills, etc.) are dictated for you. And I for one don't think the bloodline powers are compelling enough to make them the deciding factor in bloodline selection. I chose the Fey bloodline because of the spell list and the flavor. The fact that the bloodline powers were cool was just a bonus. I also don't think bloodline powers make up for the problems this creates with the archetype system.


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Geminus wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

I think the rationale was that you get to pick Bloodline Powers instead.

I don't think they had archetypes in mind when they put it together, though.

I suppose I get the bloodline power argument, but I personally don't feel as if bloodline powers are adequate substitutes for class feats. Its not as if you get to pick from multiple bloodline powers. You select your bloodline at level 1, and from then on out, all other choices (bloodline spells, powers, skills, etc.) are dictated for you. And I for one don't think the bloodline powers are compelling enough to make them the deciding factor in bloodline selection. I chose the Fey bloodline because of the spell list and the flavor. The fact that the bloodline powers were cool was just a bonus. I also don't think bloodline powers make up for the problems this creates with the archetype system.

Yeah, I think the easiest solution is to fold Bloodline Powers into Class Feats, and then you can choose to pick them or not.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Geminus wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

I think the rationale was that you get to pick Bloodline Powers instead.

I don't think they had archetypes in mind when they put it together, though.

I suppose I get the bloodline power argument, but I personally don't feel as if bloodline powers are adequate substitutes for class feats. Its not as if you get to pick from multiple bloodline powers. You select your bloodline at level 1, and from then on out, all other choices (bloodline spells, powers, skills, etc.) are dictated for you. And I for one don't think the bloodline powers are compelling enough to make them the deciding factor in bloodline selection. I chose the Fey bloodline because of the spell list and the flavor. The fact that the bloodline powers were cool was just a bonus. I also don't think bloodline powers make up for the problems this creates with the archetype system.
Yeah, I think the easiest solution is to fold Bloodline Powers into Class Feats, and then you can choose to pick them or not.

I agree. The current setup seems counter to their previously stated design goals. I thought the whole point of standardizing how the classes progress was to ensure all classes felt fully customizable, and all classes could interact fairly equally with other systems, such as archetypes. Of course there were stated exceptions, like fighters with class feats, and rogues with skill feats. I just wish they had been more upfront about the Sorcerer.


Eh, I think the system is great, this is just a minor thing that needs to be tweaked.


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Just noticed this issue and was really frustrated by it. Sorcerer seemed like a good candidate for a Magus type, what with the various bloodline powers that grant melee attacks and the feats to make it easier to cast in melee - but they have so few feats, there's not a lot of room to go into Fighter MC.

I guess the whole "bloodline power = feat" thing makes sense... but it's a bizarre design decision given that the other full casters all have similar abilities tied to a level 1 choice (cleric domain, druid order, wizard school), but they're given the freedom of whether or not to take them. Maybe they're going off the idea that it's inborn and inescapable, but it's an odd direction given how much PF2 has done to get rid of prepackaged suites of abilities.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

It seems like Sorcerer got the short end of the stick here. Almost like it never got a revamp that other classes got in regards to class feats.

Clerics have domains, and each one has an advanced domain power. They're optional. You take the "Advanced Domain" class feat to acquire them. You can ignore your domain/s advanced options for other Cleric feats or to make room for multiclassing.

Barbarians have totem specific options such as "Dragon Totem Breath" and "Giant's Stature" as class feats. Again, take as many or as few as you like.

A bard's muse doesn't even lock them into or out of a path. They can grab other muses' class feats if they wish. Or not. Hell, a human bard can effectively start with two muses using Natural Ambition and choosing a specific spell.

Sorcerers are forced into their bloodline powers. In place of those levels' class feats. The end.

It's the odd class out in regards to class feats. All the non-spellcasters get a class feat every even level. Every OTHER spellcaster gets a class feat every even level save 12 and 16, when their spell proficiency goes up. The only feat sorcerer has with a choice-related prerequisite is the "Evolution" line, which technically isn't even about their bloodline (only the bloodline's spell-list, which might not even be unique to the bloodline).

It's such a shame. I love the direction they went with the spell-list-bloodline connection, but the class looks ultimately crippled and railroaded while the rest are much more dynamic.


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I was just about to post on this. I"m going to follow up with a post and suggest, basically, that all classes get 10 (or 11, if they don't want to make 1st level stuff mandatory) feats, period.

It's pretty much impossible to test Sorcerer multiclassing, because you are using literally all your feats before level 14 if you do it full-up.


Also note that there's all of THREE bloodlines that don't give you a melee attack.

Angelic (Protection from Evil, cough, I mean Angelic Halo)
Fey (Sleep, I mean Faerie Dust)
Imperial (Ancestral Surge, a +1 conditional bonus to spell rolls and spell DCs.)

One of these three is not like the others


I am all for the 6th and 10th level bloodline powers becoming sorcerer feats instead and gaining feats at those levels instead. Really, it is no increase in power and a great increase in versatility. Heck I'd be ok with all the bloodline powers being feats.


Would love to see sorc bloodlines become optional feats and greater feat access. As they stand sorcerers have fairly weak bloodline powers that they can't customize.

Archetype dedication feats are all consuming for a sorcerer and are still worth considering to support their lackluster bloodlines (fighter dedication to armor non arcane casters, cleric or wizard dedication to complement limited spell access)


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I feel like spell proficiency bumps shouldn't count against class feats. Classes with weapon proficiency bumps don't work that way.


I guess I disagree. I like that the sorcerer is so distinct and has completely different mechanics that the other spellcasting classes, and that the bloodline is very integral for the class. the better solution would be maybe archtype the bloodline isn't so developed and thus more class feats could would available. but that can come down the line


sherlock1701 wrote:
I feel like spell proficiency bumps shouldn't count against class feats. Classes with weapon proficiency bumps don't work that way.

Classes with weapon/save proficiency bumps at odd levels are getting them in lieu of new spell levels. The best you can hope for is making expert/master proficiency an optional class feat at 12/16, with 19th still giving a free proficiency bump on top of whatever you have at that level.

But you'd be crazy not to take the proficiency bumps, so they won't make the change.


I'm leaning towards a thorough revamp of class feat allocations (like 11 / class, and each class having great choices for each feat)

See http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2vaxp?Suggestion-All-classes-get-10-class-feats


I believe you'd appreciate some elements of my Sorcerer thread. I'd love some feedback :)

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