Armor should have no speed and skill penalties

[Colette Brunel]

Does anyone else think that the speed penalty and skill check penalty for armor are arbitrary and unfair? Let us have a look at the speed penalty, first. Most races have speed 25, or speed 20 for a gnome or a halfling.

Most characters have speed 20 in medium armor, and gnomes and halflings have speed 15 in medium armor.

Most characters have a worrying speed 15 in heavy armor, and gnomes and halflings have a totally pathetic and nigh-unplayable speed 10 in heavy armor.

Add to this that the ones in heavy armor are the melee heavy-hitters, and anyone in full plate (or that maximum Dexterity modifier +0 Gray Maiden plate) is going to have considerable trouble with battlefield mobility. This could only really work out in the kind of tight and cramped dungeons Paizo seems to love in its playtest adventures.

Given that Constitution does not add that much more durability, why would a melee fighter settle for Dexterity modifier +1 and full plate (300 sp is not even affordable at 1st level), when they could try Dexterity modifier +3 and a breastplate (80 sp) with 5 more speed instead? They would have higher touch AC that way, too.

The skill penalty for armor is less cumbersome, yet still a great annoyance that I think should be removed. Strength-based characters have a hard enough time contributing to skill-oriented challenges, and I do not see a reason to slap them with a hefty penalty for daring to use physically-oriented skills. It is bad enough that full plate takes a -5 skill check penalty, but breastplates suffering a -4 skill check penalty is ludicrous and unduly restricting. Those penalties should just be removed in their entirety. Yes, higher-level armor lowers check penalties, so legendary plate armor takes only a -2 penalty and a legendary breastplate suffers only -1, but it takes time to get there, and it would be far more convenient for there to be no penalties in the first place.

Speaking of magic armor, heavy armor upgrades arbitrarily cost more than light and medium armor upgrades, so anyone who wants to play a full-plated character is arbitrarily money-taxed even further.

God help anyone who dares to wear full plate, let alone Gray Maiden plate. Pathfinder seems to be buying into the idea that a fighter in full harness is less of a shining knight and more of a clumsy oaf.

[Joana]

I don't see that it's that different than P1e armor being slowing and having armor check penalties. Heavy armor has always subtracted 10 from base speed and applied a penalty to Dex- and Str-based skills.

[Colette Brunel]

Joana wrote:

I don't see that it's that different than P1e armor being slowing and having armor check penalties. Heavy armor has always subtracted 10 from base speed and applied a penalty to Dex- and Str-based skills.

It is actually a little more inconvenient in 2e, since humans have speed 25, and given the lack of attacks of opportunity, movement is more important overall. This is Paizo's opportunity to discard that heavy inconvenience.

[Rysky]

Colette Brunel wrote:

Given that Constitution does not add that much more durability, why would a melee fighter settle for Dexterity modifier +1 and full plate (300 sp is not even affordable at 1st level), when they could try Dexterity modifier +3 and a breastplate (80 sp) with 5 more speed instead? They would have higher touch AC that way, too.

That's a question that answers itself. For mechanical diversity.

If you didn't have the drawbacks you wouldn't have much reason for everyone not to wear Platemail.

[Colette Brunel]

Could this thread please be moved to the equipment subforum?

As for "much reason for everyone not to wear Platemail," I would say that removing the skill and speed penalties would still give an incentive to wear medium armor for the higher maximum Dexterity and the more economical magic armor prices.

[Rysky]

Colette Brunel wrote:

As for "much reason for everyone not to wear Platemail," I would say that removing the skill and speed penalties would still give an incentive to wear medium armor for the higher maximum Dexterity and the more economical magic armor prices.

Eh, not enough I would say on cursory glancing.

And economical magic prices? The only price difference I saw was was for the +1 Potency Runes, not anything higher or any of the Properties, and it was a 25g difference. I will admit that is very odd to have even that difference though.

[Colette Brunel]

I would like to add that Constitution really does not confer that much more durability in 2e, which makes it all the more puzzling why people would bother with heavy armor.

The heavy armor proficiency increases for fighters and paladins are a clumsy patch.

[Colette Brunel]

I would like to add that magic heavy armor is 1 item level higher than magic light or medium armor, so simply daring to prefer heavy armor could very well undermine a character's starting wealth and later wealth.