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So we had a question come up tonight in our session. Can a familiar ready an action to toss a tarp over its master to break both line of effect and line of sight for single target spells such as feeblemind?
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Sure,but
1) What's the familiar's spellcraft ? Or is he just going to toss when any old spell is cast ?
2) Even if the fam can tell that guy is casting feeblemind, he might not be able to tell who the target will be/is until it's too late
3) A mere tarp is not going to cut it if simply draped over the target. Otherwise, my cloak can do the same !
How much water vapor needs to be between the caster and the target to break LoE? Would other sufficiently dense gases break it? What IS enough to break LoE?
1. you just have the thing do the thing when the thing happens. It doesn't need to know what the thing is to do the thing, like specifically, but just that the thing was a thing so it does the thing.
2. you just have the thing do the thing whenever a spell seems to be cast.
3. A tarp will block line of sight, and line of effect. It will work.
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Oh come on.
1) What's the familiar's spellcraft ? Or is he just going to toss when any old spell is cast ?
I (the caster) spellcraft to determine the spell. It's a free action to speak to my familiar to tell it to tarp me if needed. The readied action for the familiar will be to throw a tarp on me when I say "tarp me".
2) Even if the fam can tell that guy is casting feeblemind, he might not be able to tell who the target will be/is until it's too late
Correct it would not know who is the target, it's more a precaution to avoid single target spells.
3) A mere tarp is not going to cut it if simply draped over the target. Otherwise, my cloak can do the same !
I apologize but this seems incorrect as by the rules. As per the rules a line of effect is blocked by a solid barrier.
A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.
And line of sight you need to actually see the target. If you cannot see the target you cannot select them with a spell that specifically targets creatures such as feeblemind.
A line of sight is the same as a Line of Effect but with the additional restriction that that it is blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight (such as Concealment).
Oh come on.
I'm with blahpers! This is a really exciting tactic, and I'm glad you inspired us to use it in our games. Great post!
I am thinking of using an Unseen servant to close a shower curtain that I'll affix onto my character with a harness. So on my turn I'll open it, and do my stuff, and as soon as I'm done with my standard action, the Unseen servant will close the thing. This will make it impossible for anything to do line or sight and line of effect on me unless they do a ready action.
This also protects me from melee and ranged projectile attacks with my total concealment. They'd have to attack my curtain.
I would use a transparent curtain too, so I can see through it.
If someone didn't do an action on their turn, I would prob not open the curtain.
I can also be immune to provoking AoOs too.
I'm going to add this to my 20% concealment bush I attach to my character, so it'll be another layer of defense.
Anyone know how I can be submerged in a 5 ft square of water during combat? I can attack out of it, but anything outside of it not submerged will have total concealment to deal with. I want to add this to my shower curtain and bush.
<sigh> Silly human fighters! Good to eat, though, lots of muscle.
The familiar has your Spellcraft ranks, so it can do the ID itself, and you don't have to worry about taking your free action off-turn in the middle of someone else's turn. I'd worry about the familiar being able to physically throw the tarp, as they usually aren't very strong, but I assume you accounted for that already. Those things said, it should work fine. You'll have to spend an action to get the tarp out of the way when your turn comes around. And since the caster doesn't have to decide on the target until they finish casting (see Magic chapter), they can direct it at someone not covered by a tarp (like say your familiar that just drew attention to itself).
tarp wouldn't be heavy enough to matter I'd imagine.
Familiar would be invisible, and move action pick up tarp, and ready to cover you. Ready action from the familiar would be when you use a free action to say "Tarp me, little baby boi! I'm feeling lucky tonight, and I need your lovin' to get me through till tomorrow" and then it would standard toss it on you. Just repeat forever. And yes, you'd move action move the tarp off you on your turn.
I'm serious on the water question though-- a wall of ice blocks LoE, but if I disperse that same volume of water over a wider area, it suddenly doesn't block LoE? Seems suspicious.
You need to have the thing do things so it makes things be things. Like things to make them things like total concealment, or total cover. If the things you do with the things make those things be things, then the things won't do things to you.
Hope that helps, Frak
I'm serious on the water question though-- a wall of ice blocks LoE, but if I disperse that same volume of water over a wider area, it suddenly doesn't block LoE? Seems suspicious.
Water isn't solid. Unless it's ice.
So only solid things break LoE, huh? Good, I was wanting to fire this scorching ray through this gelatinous cube, that belker, or that legion of Shadows. Neat!
Water is ice
Is glass solid? I heard it was some weird thing where it was and wasn't. What about glass?
Glass is silica substrate suspended in a fluid. Where does blahpers draw the line?
So we had a question come up tonight in our session. Can a familiar ready an action to toss a tarp over its master to break both line of effect and line of sight for single target spells such as feeblemind?
From the line of sight's glossary entry: "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier."
From the 6-7 range of Intelligence: "Dull-witted or slow, often misuses and mispronounces words".
Now, if we cross-reference this with the empathic link a familiar has: "The master has an empathic link with his familiar to a 1 mile distance. The master can communicate empathically with the familiar, but cannot see through its eyes. Because of the link’s limited nature, only general emotions can be shared. The master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does."
That said, it seems perfectly legitimate for a familiar to ready its standard action drop a tarp on its master. And if it's already holding it, it possibly could drop it as a free action, if it's sharing a square with its master per: "Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action."
With all of these tings in mind, let's hope the player being tarped is prepared to also be considered to have and deal with at least some concealment from both allies and enemies, but I'd rather not distract from the point of this thread too much.
I'd put in quotes to the pfsrd for what I quoted, but I don't know how to make it look not poorly formatted.
Edit*: Knew I'd forget this part. As we know, a familiar's Int will scale (unless you're a blockhead mauler), so that lends more credence to allowing this interaction, albeit with possible consequences a sadistic GM might exploit
I've been working hard to get my local pfs off the ground, and players have said that I should spice things up. I will start adding some of these ideas at our full weekend pfs event tomorrow.
Could I have things like shadows and wraiths carry around tarps on them, or have bushes be connected to them? Bushes are just normal concealment, right?
What is the RAW on glass. Is it a liquid or a solid substance in pathfinder? Is there a pfs ruling on this? Can characters be submerged in glass?
I have an idea. Have a familiar be invisible or an unseen servant hold the tarp to cover line of sight, and you 5ft and do what you need to, and then your familiar or servant 5 ft steps to block the line again. You don't need to worry about allies buffing you, assuming they can see you at an angle.
I've been working hard to get my local pfs off the ground, and players have said that I should spice things up. I will start adding some of these ideas at our full weekend pfs event tomorrow.
Could I have things like shadows and wraiths carry around tarps on them, or have bushes be connected to them? Bushes are just normal concealment, right?
What is the RAW on glass. Is it a liquid or a solid substance in pathfinder? Is there a pfs ruling on this? Can characters be submerged in glass?
Assuming usual conditions This is pathfinder, aka pedantfinder, I'm gonna assign values. With an expected pressure of 1 atmosphere and Temperature of 70 Fahreinheit, or 25 Celsius for those of you without freedom, You can expect glass to be in a solid state; technically, it's an amorphous solid.
If you somehow are submerged in glass, you're gonna need a few things. At least fire resistance 15, to not have to breath, and hopefully, some ability to generate temperatures in excess of 500 Fahreinheit minimum around yourself, as solidfiying glass can get in some dark places. I say this with a couple years' experience in glassblowing
I have an idea. Have a familiar be invisible or an unseen servant hold the tarp to cover line of sight, and you 5ft and do what you need to, and then your familiar or servant 5 ft steps to block the line again. You don't need to worry about allies buffing you, assuming they can see you at an angle.
Having the unseen servant do it could work, but you'd have to tell it to do so immediately following that free action Spellcraft check, so wording the servant to ready an action to follow your next command could be a viable means to have it drop your stinky blanket on your cowardly rear.
For the familiar, you'd have even less to worry about.
This is the definition of cheese. Most familiars wouldn't have the intellect to do this.
This is the definition of cheese. Most familiars wouldn't have the intellect to do this.
A familiar's Int will always be greater than or equal to 6 per its progression, could you explain how they lack the intellect to do this?
You can train a dog with 2 Int to drop a blanket with a verbal command, with something like the Deliver trick
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So we had a question come up tonight in our session. Can a familiar ready an action to toss a tarp over its master to break both line of effect and line of sight for single target spells such as feeblemind?
Action wise, yes.
But it will not work because unless the tarp is held up by something it will fall to the floor and not block anything. If it is over the master then it is considered part of the master and line of sight/effect to the tarp is line of sight/effect to the master, just like a shield.
If the familiar dropped a tarp on an enemy, would the tarp be considered part of the enemy?
As far as RAW definition on glass, I don't know of one, so I default to the default from Science, it is a solid, an amorphous one, but still a solid. I don't want to side track this thread, so before you argue, trust me, please?
Physics talk?
I RIIIIIIISE......
Physics talk?
I RIIIIIIISE......
Real physics memes hours? Sign me up!
Thank you for the replies. We went with the familiar using a readied action to hold the tarp in front of the player to break line of sight and line of effect so it can't be considered an attended item. This appeared to be the answer most in line with the rules as written and in the spirit of the game.