paizo.com Recent Posts in Breaking Line of Effect and Line of Sightpaizo.com Recent Posts in Breaking Line of Effect and Line of Sight2018-07-27T21:12:06Z2018-07-27T21:12:06ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightMister Sockshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#332018-07-29T19:22:23Z2018-07-29T19:22:23Z<p>Thank you for the replies. We went with the familiar using a readied action to hold the tarp in front of the player to break line of sight and line of effect so it can't be considered an attended item. This appeared to be the answer most in line with the rules as written and in the spirit of the game.</p>Thank you for the replies. We went with the familiar using a readied action to hold the tarp in front of the player to break line of sight and line of effect so it can't be considered an attended item. This appeared to be the answer most in line with the rules as written and in the spirit of the game.Mister Socks2018-07-29T19:22:23ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightAzothathhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#322018-07-29T00:28:50Z2018-07-28T09:45:49Z<p>LoL... a silly thread.
<br />
Has anyone bothered to unfold the tarp? •thunk•</p>
<p>Will the tarp be worn? If so then it is a personal item like clothes and targeting it targets the 'wearer' as clothes and armor do not prevent targeting the wearer (tower shields do not prevent targeting the holder). It's the oddball idea of posessions in the game.</p>
<p>To be effective, the covering has to seal to the ground. Tarps are well known to wrinkle and not seal to the ground when <b>casually</b> draped over objects (BBQ grills, furniture, piles of lumber, tents). Normally tarps need to be staked or weighted down.</p>
<p>Still, you have stepped into the GMs gray area as this application is not covered by RAW.</p>
<p><i>new Alignment tarp-aligned.</i> Probably a kalistocrat thing as it deals with troubled asset relief.</p>LoL... a silly thread.
Has anyone bothered to unfold the tarp? *thunk*
Will the tarp be worn? If so then it is a personal item like clothes and targeting it targets the 'wearer' as clothes and armor do not prevent targeting the wearer (tower shields do not prevent targeting the holder). It's the oddball idea of posessions in the game.
To be effective, the covering has to seal to the ground. Tarps are well known to wrinkle and not seal to the ground when casually draped over objects (BBQ...Azothath2018-07-28T09:45:49ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightGeorgeTheFoolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#312018-07-28T06:39:12Z2018-07-28T06:39:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Undead Catgirl wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Physics talk?</p>
<p>I RIIIIIIISE...... </blockquote><p>Real physics memes hours? Sign me up!Undead Catgirl wrote:Physics talk?
I RIIIIIIISE......
Real physics memes hours? Sign me up!GeorgeTheFool2018-07-28T06:39:12ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightUndead Catgirl (alias of blahpers)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#302018-07-27T18:52:11Z2018-07-27T18:52:11Z<p>Physics talk?</p>
<p>I RIIIIIIISE......</p>Physics talk?
I RIIIIIIISE......Undead Catgirl (alias of blahpers)2018-07-27T18:52:11ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightJava Manhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#292018-07-27T02:24:50Z2018-07-27T02:24:50Z<p>As far as RAW definition on glass, I don't know of one, so I default to the default from Science, it is a solid, an amorphous one, but still a solid. I don't want to side track this thread, so before you argue, trust me, please?</p>As far as RAW definition on glass, I don't know of one, so I default to the default from Science, it is a solid, an amorphous one, but still a solid. I don't want to side track this thread, so before you argue, trust me, please?Java Man2018-07-27T02:24:50ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightHuman Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#282018-07-27T02:11:54Z2018-07-27T02:11:54Z<p>If the familiar dropped a tarp on an enemy, would the tarp be considered part of the enemy?</p>If the familiar dropped a tarp on an enemy, would the tarp be considered part of the enemy?Human Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)2018-07-27T02:11:54ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of Sightthorin001https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#272018-07-30T14:29:28Z2018-07-27T01:28:29Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mister Socks wrote:</div><blockquote> So we had a question come up tonight in our session. Can a familiar ready an action to toss a tarp over its master to break both line of effect and line of sight for single target spells such as feeblemind? </blockquote><p>Action wise, yes.
</p>
But it will not work because unless the tarp is held up by something it will fall to the floor and not block anything. If it is over the master then it is considered part of the master and line of sight/effect to the tarp is line of sight/effect to the master, just like a shield.</p>Mister Socks wrote:So we had a question come up tonight in our session. Can a familiar ready an action to toss a tarp over its master to break both line of effect and line of sight for single target spells such as feeblemind?
Action wise, yes.
But it will not work because unless the tarp is held up by something it will fall to the floor and not block anything. If it is over the master then it is considered part of the master and line of sight/effect to the tarp is line of sight/effect to...thorin0012018-07-27T01:28:29ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightGeorgeTheFoolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#262018-07-27T01:02:20Z2018-07-27T01:02:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Brother Fen wrote:</div><blockquote> This is the definition of cheese. Most familiars wouldn't have the intellect to do this. </blockquote><p>A familiar's Int will always be greater than or equal to 6 per its progression, could you explain how they lack the intellect to do this?
<p>You can train a dog with 2 Int to drop a blanket with a verbal command, with something like the <a href="https://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/handle-animal" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Deliver trick</a></p>Brother Fen wrote:This is the definition of cheese. Most familiars wouldn't have the intellect to do this.
A familiar's Int will always be greater than or equal to 6 per its progression, could you explain how they lack the intellect to do this? You can train a dog with 2 Int to drop a blanket with a verbal command, with something like the Deliver trickGeorgeTheFool2018-07-27T01:02:20ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightBrother Fenhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#252018-07-27T00:54:25Z2018-07-27T00:54:25Z<p>This is the definition of cheese. Most familiars wouldn't have the intellect to do this.</p>This is the definition of cheese. Most familiars wouldn't have the intellect to do this.Brother Fen2018-07-27T00:54:25ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightGeorgeTheFoolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#242018-07-27T00:30:10Z2018-07-27T00:28:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Air Bud wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I've been working hard to get my local pfs off the ground, and players have said that I should spice things up. I will start adding some of these ideas at our full weekend pfs event tomorrow.</p>
<p>Could I have things like shadows and wraiths carry around tarps on them, or have bushes be connected to them? Bushes are just normal concealment, right?</p>
<p>What is the RAW on glass. Is it a liquid or a solid substance in pathfinder? Is there a pfs ruling on this? Can characters be submerged in glass? </blockquote><p><s>Assuming usual conditions</s> This is pathfinder, aka pedantfinder, I'm gonna assign values. With an expected pressure of 1 atmosphere and Temperature of 70 Fahreinheit, or 25 Celsius for those of you without freedom, You can expect glass to be in a solid state; technically, it's an amorphous solid.
<p>If you somehow are submerged in glass, you're gonna need a few things. At least fire resistance 15, to not have to breath, and hopefully, some ability to generate temperatures in excess of 500 Fahreinheit minimum around yourself, as solidfiying glass can get in some dark places. I say this with a couple years' experience in glassblowing</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Air Bud wrote:</div><blockquote> I have an idea. Have a familiar be invisible or an unseen servant hold the tarp to cover line of sight, and you 5ft and do what you need to, and then your familiar or servant 5 ft steps to block the line again. You don't need to worry about allies buffing you, assuming they can see you at an angle. </blockquote><p>Having the unseen servant do it could work, but you'd have to tell it to do so immediately following that free action Spellcraft check, so wording the servant to ready an action to follow your next command could be a viable means to have it drop your stinky blanket on your cowardly rear.
<p>For the familiar, you'd have even less to worry about.</p>Air Bud wrote:I've been working hard to get my local pfs off the ground, and players have said that I should spice things up. I will start adding some of these ideas at our full weekend pfs event tomorrow.
Could I have things like shadows and wraiths carry around tarps on them, or have bushes be connected to them? Bushes are just normal concealment, right?
What is the RAW on glass. Is it a liquid or a solid substance in pathfinder? Is there a pfs ruling on this? Can characters be submerged...GeorgeTheFool2018-07-27T00:28:28ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightAir Budhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#232018-07-27T00:12:15Z2018-07-27T00:12:15Z<p>I have an idea. Have a familiar be invisible or an unseen servant hold the tarp to cover line of sight, and you 5ft and do what you need to, and then your familiar or servant 5 ft steps to block the line again. You don't need to worry about allies buffing you, assuming they can see you at an angle.</p>I have an idea. Have a familiar be invisible or an unseen servant hold the tarp to cover line of sight, and you 5ft and do what you need to, and then your familiar or servant 5 ft steps to block the line again. You don't need to worry about allies buffing you, assuming they can see you at an angle.Air Bud2018-07-27T00:12:15ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightAir Budhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#222018-07-27T00:08:20Z2018-07-27T00:08:20Z<p>I've been working hard to get my local pfs off the ground, and players have said that I should spice things up. I will start adding some of these ideas at our full weekend pfs event tomorrow.</p>
<p>Could I have things like shadows and wraiths carry around tarps on them, or have bushes be connected to them? Bushes are just normal concealment, right?</p>
<p>What is the RAW on glass. Is it a liquid or a solid substance in pathfinder? Is there a pfs ruling on this? Can characters be submerged in glass?</p>I've been working hard to get my local pfs off the ground, and players have said that I should spice things up. I will start adding some of these ideas at our full weekend pfs event tomorrow.
Could I have things like shadows and wraiths carry around tarps on them, or have bushes be connected to them? Bushes are just normal concealment, right?
What is the RAW on glass. Is it a liquid or a solid substance in pathfinder? Is there a pfs ruling on this? Can characters be submerged in glass?Air Bud2018-07-27T00:08:20ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightGeorgeTheFoolhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#212018-07-27T00:04:06Z2018-07-27T00:04:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Mister Socks wrote:</div><blockquote> So we had a question come up tonight in our session. Can a familiar ready an action to toss a tarp over its master to break both line of effect and line of sight for single target spells such as feeblemind? </blockquote><p>From the line of sight's glossary entry: "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier."
<p>From the 6-7 range of Intelligence: "Dull-witted or slow, often misuses and mispronounces words".</p>
<p>Now, if we cross-reference this with the empathic link a familiar has: "The master has an empathic link with his familiar to a 1 mile distance. The master can communicate empathically with the familiar, but cannot see through its eyes. Because of the link’s limited nature, only general emotions can be shared. The master has the same connection to an item or place that his familiar does." </p>
<p>That said, it seems perfectly legitimate for a familiar to ready its standard action drop a tarp on its master. And if it's already holding it, it possibly could drop it as a free action, if it's sharing a square with its master per: "Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square is a free action."</p>
<p>With all of these tings in mind, let's hope the player being tarped is prepared to also be considered to have and deal with at least some concealment from both allies and enemies, but I'd rather not distract from the point of this thread too much.</p>
<p>I'd put in quotes to the pfsrd for what I quoted, but I don't know how to make it look not poorly formatted.</p>
<p>Edit•: Knew I'd forget this part. As we know, a familiar's Int will scale (unless you're a blockhead mauler), so that lends more credence to allowing this interaction, albeit with possible consequences a sadistic GM might exploit</p>Mister Socks wrote:So we had a question come up tonight in our session. Can a familiar ready an action to toss a tarp over its master to break both line of effect and line of sight for single target spells such as feeblemind?
From the line of sight's glossary entry: "A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier." From the 6-7 range of Intelligence: "Dull-witted or slow, often misuses and mispronounces...GeorgeTheFool2018-07-27T00:04:06ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightLeesusFreakhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#202018-07-26T23:54:03Z2018-07-26T23:54:03Z<p>Glass is silica substrate suspended in a fluid. Where does blahpers draw the line?</p>Glass is silica substrate suspended in a fluid. Where does blahpers draw the line?LeesusFreak2018-07-26T23:54:03ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightAir Budhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#192018-07-26T23:55:46Z2018-07-26T23:51:44Z<p>Is glass solid? I heard it was some weird thing where it was and wasn't. What about glass?</p>Is glass solid? I heard it was some weird thing where it was and wasn't. What about glass?Air Bud2018-07-26T23:51:44ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightAir Budhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#182018-07-26T23:50:07Z2018-07-26T23:50:07Z<p>Water is ice</p>Water is iceAir Bud2018-07-26T23:50:07ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightLeesusFreakhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#172018-07-26T23:49:38Z2018-07-26T23:49:38Z<p>So only solid things break LoE, huh? Good, I was wanting to fire this scorching ray through this gelatinous cube, that belker, or that legion of Shadows. Neat!</p>So only solid things break LoE, huh? Good, I was wanting to fire this scorching ray through this gelatinous cube, that belker, or that legion of Shadows. Neat!LeesusFreak2018-07-26T23:49:38ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of Sightblahpershttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#162018-07-26T23:33:12Z2018-07-26T23:32:55Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">LeesusFreak wrote:</div><blockquote> I'm serious on the water question though— a wall of ice blocks LoE, but if I disperse that same volume of water over a wider area, it suddenly doesn't block LoE? Seems suspicious. </blockquote><p>Water isn't solid. Unless it's ice.LeesusFreak wrote:I'm serious on the water question though-- a wall of ice blocks LoE, but if I disperse that same volume of water over a wider area, it suddenly doesn't block LoE? Seems suspicious.
Water isn't solid. Unless it's ice.blahpers2018-07-26T23:32:55ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightHuman Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#152018-07-26T22:35:30Z2018-07-26T22:35:30Z<p>You need to have the thing do things so it makes things be things. Like things to make them things like total concealment, or total cover. If the things you do with the things make those things be things, then the things won't do things to you.
<br />
Hope that helps, Frak</p>You need to have the thing do things so it makes things be things. Like things to make them things like total concealment, or total cover. If the things you do with the things make those things be things, then the things won't do things to you.
Hope that helps, FrakHuman Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)2018-07-26T22:35:30ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightLeesusFreakhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#142018-07-26T22:27:43Z2018-07-26T22:27:43Z<p>I'm serious on the water question though— a wall of ice blocks LoE, but if I disperse that same volume of water over a wider area, it suddenly doesn't block LoE? Seems suspicious.</p>I'm serious on the water question though-- a wall of ice blocks LoE, but if I disperse that same volume of water over a wider area, it suddenly doesn't block LoE? Seems suspicious.LeesusFreak2018-07-26T22:27:43ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightHuman Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#132018-07-26T22:24:09Z2018-07-26T22:24:09Z<p>tarp wouldn't be heavy enough to matter I'd imagine.</p>
<p>Familiar would be invisible, and move action pick up tarp, and ready to cover you. Ready action from the familiar would be when you use a free action to say "Tarp me, little baby boi! I'm feeling lucky tonight, and I need your lovin' to get me through till tomorrow" and then it would standard toss it on you. Just repeat forever. And yes, you'd move action move the tarp off you on your turn.</p>tarp wouldn't be heavy enough to matter I'd imagine.
Familiar would be invisible, and move action pick up tarp, and ready to cover you. Ready action from the familiar would be when you use a free action to say "Tarp me, little baby boi! I'm feeling lucky tonight, and I need your lovin' to get me through till tomorrow" and then it would standard toss it on you. Just repeat forever. And yes, you'd move action move the tarp off you on your turn.Human Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)2018-07-26T22:24:09ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightFuzzy-Wuzzyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#122018-07-26T22:11:02Z2018-07-26T22:11:02Z<p><sigh> Silly human fighters! Good to eat, though, lots of muscle.</p>
<p>The familiar has your Spellcraft ranks, so it can do the ID itself, and you don't have to worry about taking your free action off-turn in the middle of someone else's turn. I'd worry about the familiar being able to physically throw the tarp, as they usually aren't very strong, but I assume you accounted for that already. Those things said, it should work fine. You'll have to spend an action to get the tarp out of the way when your turn comes around. And since the caster doesn't have to decide on the target until they finish casting (see Magic chapter), they can direct it at someone not covered by a tarp (like say your familiar that just drew attention to itself).</p>Silly human fighters! Good to eat, though, lots of muscle.
The familiar has your Spellcraft ranks, so it can do the ID itself, and you don't have to worry about taking your free action off-turn in the middle of someone else's turn. I'd worry about the familiar being able to physically throw the tarp, as they usually aren't very strong, but I assume you accounted for that already. Those things said, it should work fine. You'll have to spend an action to get the tarp out of the way when your...Fuzzy-Wuzzy2018-07-26T22:11:02ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightHuman Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#112018-07-26T21:44:02Z2018-07-26T21:44:02Z<p>Anyone know how I can be submerged in a 5 ft square of water during combat? I can attack out of it, but anything outside of it not submerged will have total concealment to deal with. I want to add this to my shower curtain and bush.</p>Anyone know how I can be submerged in a 5 ft square of water during combat? I can attack out of it, but anything outside of it not submerged will have total concealment to deal with. I want to add this to my shower curtain and bush.Human Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)2018-07-26T21:44:02ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightHuman Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#102018-07-26T21:42:24Z2018-07-26T21:42:24Z<p>I'm going to add this to my 20% concealment bush I attach to my character, so it'll be another layer of defense.</p>I'm going to add this to my 20% concealment bush I attach to my character, so it'll be another layer of defense.Human Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)2018-07-26T21:42:24ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Breaking Line of Effect and Line of SightHuman Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v9aa?Breaking-Line-of-Effect-and-Line-of-Sight#92018-07-26T21:41:11Z2018-07-26T21:41:11Z<p>I am thinking of using an Unseen servant to close a shower curtain that I'll affix onto my character with a harness. So on my turn I'll open it, and do my stuff, and as soon as I'm done with my standard action, the Unseen servant will close the thing. This will make it impossible for anything to do line or sight and line of effect on me unless they do a ready action.</p>
<p>This also protects me from melee and ranged projectile attacks with my total concealment. They'd have to attack my curtain.</p>
<p>I would use a transparent curtain too, so I can see through it.</p>
<p>If someone didn't do an action on their turn, I would prob not open the curtain.</p>
<p>I can also be immune to provoking AoOs too.</p>I am thinking of using an Unseen servant to close a shower curtain that I'll affix onto my character with a harness. So on my turn I'll open it, and do my stuff, and as soon as I'm done with my standard action, the Unseen servant will close the thing. This will make it impossible for anything to do line or sight and line of effect on me unless they do a ready action.
This also protects me from melee and ranged projectile attacks with my total concealment. They'd have to attack my curtain.
I...Human Fighter (alias of Rapanuii)2018-07-26T21:41:11Z