I know there have been questions asked on this before (Can an incorporeal occupy the same space as a PC", and usually it boils down to "nothing says they are exempt from the rule about occupying the same space"....
But I ask because of a specific line on a monster....
"Wrap in Despair (Su) Any living creature that begins its turn occupying the same space as a caller in darkness........"
The specific attack doesn't really have much effect unless the victim is actually still up and active (oh no, my unconscious/dying character is depressed)... so my wonderment is how would this scenario come into play unless an incorporeal could occupy the same space as a corporeal?
It's a large creature, so it could be in the process of moving through a medium or large creature's space - hence occupying the same space during that span of time.
It's a large creature, so it could be in the process of moving through a medium or large creature's space - hence occupying the same space during that span of time.
That wouldn't account for a creature beginning its turn in the CoD's space, as described in the ability description.
I suppose it could work if the creature was helpless or pinned or the like, but that would seem to make the ability fairly useless. After all, what use is an ability that makes the victims unable to take actions if they already pretty much are.
It makes sense that because incorporeal creatures do not have a physical body, that they may occupy the same square as another creature regardless of size, the same way swarms are allowed to do so. However, I can't seem to find anything to support this.
The only thing I could find were statements that very small creatures are allowed to occupy the same square as other creatures and that if one creature is 3 size categories smaller than another they may move through each other's squares without penalty.
It's a large creature, so it could be in the process of moving through a medium or large creature's space - hence occupying the same space during that span of time.That wouldn't account for a creature beginning its turn in the CoD's space, as described in the ability description.
The implication is that the Caller in Darkness stopped it's movement from the previous turn in the same square as a PC or vice versa for some reason.
The implication is that the Caller in Darkness stopped it's movement from the previous turn in the same square as a PC or vice versa for some reason.It's a large creature, so it could be in the process of moving through a medium or large creature's space - hence occupying the same space during that span of time.That wouldn't account for a creature beginning its turn in the CoD's space, as described in the ability description.
That's exactly the situation that the rules do not allow--a creature ending its turn occupying the same space as another creature. There's even a rule to resolve what happens if this happens accidentally/for reasons outside the character's control--the offender is moved to the last/closest legal space.
Technically, even the rules for engulf don't actually state that a creature can end their turn in another creature's space--only that it can move over said space to do its thing--but it's strongly implied as the ability wouldn't really work otherwise. I would assume the same for the caller in darkness.
It's incorporeal though, which opens it to interpretation.
I was hoping that something had been added/faq'd/etc somewhere that such creatures gained something like the engulf ability or a similar function. Similar to the Hungry Fog.
It would make sense for things that are large mists/clouds/fogs/smoke/not physical...
It's incorporeal though, which opens it to interpretation.
Hence this thread. : )
Well, I would guess that if I were to use such a creature (with a similar ability/property) at some point I would just assume it has something like the hungry fog's ability to engulf without actually causing a pin or trapping them......
And for other incorporeal I would just apply the standard "can't occupy the same" rule.
Although it would be a heck of a combat if a wraith were sharing with a player and everyone else had to deal with "should I swing at Bob or not?" :D
But it would be nice if such things were clarified by an official source just for ease of use.
An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own.
The ability allows them to be occupy a wall of solid stone. Occupying a space with a body would therefore be easy.
/cevah