I am a bit (but only a bit) baffled as to why suddenly a bunch of folks are up in arms about rights that were lost decades ago--many of whom weren't even born when all this stuff happened. Fawcett's Captain Marvel goes back to 1939, and ceased publication in 1953 due, in part, to the copyright strike. It was mostly forgotten when Marvel began publishing comics with Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell) in 1967 (Carol Danvers as a character appeared in 1968, but didn't get her powers until later and of course didn't take on the mantle until the 21st Century, but there have been many Captain Marvels before her in Marvel comics). DC Comics didn't acquire the license to the Fawcett Captain Marvel and the Shazam family until a few years later in 1972; and they published his stories in a comic book called "Shazam!" They didn't get the full rights until 1991. And so for many fans of the Shazam family, they never were even introduced to them or heard of them until after Marvel's Captain Marvel was well established. It's a shame it gets so confusing, but it's an issue that is literally older than I am and probably most people in this forum. Was there huge "that's not Billy Batson!" fallout when Monica Rambeau became Marvel's Captain Marvel in 1982?
The rights issues were dealt with and juggled for decades just fine though.
DC can't use the name "Captain Marvel" in their advertising... that's fine. The book was called "Power of Shazam" or "with one magic word... SHAZAM!" or something of that nature... but the CHARACTER was still always referred to as Captain Marvel in the book. It's only since Infinite Crisis that DC just gave up and scuttled decades worth of history to change the name of the core character in his franchise.
Even the old Super Powers toy listed him as 'Shazam' on the cover... but on the file card on the back it calls him Captain Marvel. So 'legally' they can pretty much do what they want. There have always been loopholes to jump through and they used to do it just fine. Now they've given up and it annoys a lot of people.
Personally, I think the best compromise would have been to drop or distance themselves from the 'Marvel' part, but kept calling him 'Captain' any way. That's how most of his buddies would refer to him in the story.
It's only since Infinite Crisis that DC just gave up and scuttled decades worth of history to change the name of the core character in his franchise.
Considering how DC has often floundered in its use of Captain Marvel (and the surrounding mythology), I honestly wasn't that shocked.
Case in point- Anyone remember the Final Night miniseries? Where they dusted off the Sun-Eater from an old Legion of Superheroes story and made it into a contemporary threat?
Superman's gonna fly a bomb into the Sun-Eater's heart, even though he's losing his powers and will therefore most likely die, blah blah blah.
The person they have point this out?
Captain friggin' Marvel, or, you know, the guy who could totally do the same thing and whose powers aren't sun-dependent.
Their efforts to give the Marvel family their own books to hang out in have been laughably uneven... because, on some level, the DC bigwigs are still welded to Superman, and the two characters are built too similarly in basic powers and execution.
They don't stick any of the Marvel/Shazam family on merch if they can possibly avoid it (don't believe me? DC Bombshells- you can get a friggin' Stargirl or Mera window decal, but Miriam Marvel? Nope!)
It's not hard to figure a character the powers that be never seemed to particularly like or have a handle on can just get binned- especially since they're no longer licensing someone else's IP but own it outright.
I really think to make Captain Marvel work, you've got to embrace the silly of the old concept, at least to some extent. Don't try to go all gritty. Bring in the Marvel Family and Talky Tawny and use the weird villains and all.
I want them fighting a talking caterpillar, damn it.
Bingo.
The central appeal of the character is that Billy Batson is a good kid with a magic word.
The makes him a bad fit for "edge for edge's sake" stories (looking at YOU, Identity Crisis), but GREAT for stories about, you know... fun. That thing we used to have. And hope. (Also makes him good for musings on lost innocence like "Kingdom Come")
"Holy Moley."
Mister Mind.
Doctor Sivana.
It's no accident that in the modern era, the Marvel family related character who's seen the most consistent use and application has been Black Adam- he's the one best suited to the grim and gritty- and what do you know, he had a stint as a good guy because of it.
I really think to make Captain Marvel work, you've got to embrace the silly of the old concept, at least to some extent. Don't try to go all gritty. Bring in the Marvel Family and Talky Tawny and use the weird villains and all.
I want them fighting a talking caterpillar, damn it.
I'm a firm believer that this applies to most if not all comics :P
Captain Marvel may have a core of fun silly stories.. but so does Superman vs. Giant gorillas from space and Batman fighting Crazy Quilt... the more serious and gritty you make a character who dresses like a Bat and has a kid sidekick... the more the properties start to crack under the scrutiny.
While I'm not fond of the way the stories are going in DC, the new Shazam comic DOES give us some things that have been missing since Final Crisis.
New Shazam trailer 2 with Batman cameo, sorta
I really hope they do realize the connection to the heroes of myth in the film. That was one of the aspects I always thought was cool about the character
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New Shazam trailer 2 with Batman cameo, sorta
Tonally, it's an improvement- especially for Freddie.
Grey,
Well we'll see. I dunno about the myth part BUT it might be connected to "wizard gets their power from mythic figures" kind of deal...
I really think to make Captain Marvel work, you've got to embrace the silly of the old concept, at least to some extent. Don't try to go all gritty. Bring in the Marvel Family and Talky Tawny and use the weird villains and all.
I want them fighting a talking caterpillar, damn it.
I'm a firm believer that this applies to most if not all comics :P
Captain Marvel may have a core of fun silly stories.. but so does Superman vs. Giant gorillas from space and Batman fighting Crazy Quilt... the more serious and gritty you make a character who dresses like a Bat and has a kid sidekick... the more the properties start to crack under the scrutiny.
Egg-Fu!
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My question is: Why a muscle suit? They couldn't get someone already jacked?
Hmm so its more so a costume thing that and the insane proportions that Shazam is depicted with.
Funny trailer, but I was already sold on seeing this movie from the first trailer.
Whenever they break out black Adam the rock may be the first actor that goes into it as a perfect fit no extra bulk required.
Yeah it just looks odd. Like I guess the padding is more obvious.
^unless your The Rock.
I do think you are right about the cloth thing.
The Rock is a beast. And yes, he's pretty much going to NOT need any padding for Black Adam.
I know they did some for Superman and Batman...but honestly it didn't seem that noticeable compared to Shazam/Captain Marvel.
I am trying to figure out if I can take my dad to this movie.
He loved Foster's Captain Marvel as a little boy (actually his favorite was Freddy, but it looks like he has a major role even if he doesn't get his powers yet). He really likes mythology themes--his favorite comics were Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman growing up because of all the ties to Greek mythology.
He's also, bless him, a little stuffy sometimes and doesn't like "bathroom humor" much (though I don't either, for that matter), nor is he hugely into action films or sci-fi (fantasy is okay, depending; he fell asleep watching Lord of the Rings because it was "too long"). He liked the Wonder Woman movie pretty well--he liked the mythological tie ins and the historical setting (he is a retired history teacher) and thought the casting and performances were good, but glazed over during the big end fight sequences (though a lot of people did; that was one of the weaker points of that movie). But it looks like the tone is going to be very different, even if both DC movies.
He likes comedy, just not so much the bathroom humor stuff or slapstick--but silliness is fine. The trailers look to me like the comedy is possibly not his cup of tea, but the reviews are so positive it sounds like they balance it better than the trailers imply.
I'm thinking if it would be a fun nostalgia trip for him it would be fun to take him to, but if it's just OOT goofballery that isn't really going to evoke what he remembers of the characters I wouldn't want him to be disappointed.
What do y'all think?
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Been a while since I read this thread, so I am commenting on things posted weeks ago.
The name:
I checked IMDb, and they are calling him Captain Shazam. That is stupid.
His name is Captain Marvel. He won't be able to say his name without turning back into Billy. The only one who has that problem is Captain Marvel Jr. (aka Freddie Freeman).
As for not using the name Captain Marvel, it is perfectly legal to use it as the name of the character. The only thing DC can't do is publish any book (or movie) as Captain Marvel.
Also, many DC and Marvel characters have the same name. It is allowable.
From the previews, it looks like Billy/Captain Marvel is an idiot. I don't like that. He is supposed to have:
S - The wisdom of Solomon
H - The strength of Hercules
A - The stamina of Atlas
Z - The power of Zeus
A - The courage of Achilles
M - The speed of Mercury.
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They officially changed his name to Shazam a few years ago in the comics because, to quote DC (Geoff Johns maybe)? "That's what everyone calls him anyway." (And I'm sure also just to avoid any borderline trademark issues.) So it doesn't matter if it was perfectly legal to call him Captain Marvel inside the comics, it is not actually his name anymore, officially. You can take your issues with that up with DC.
As for the rest, the issues were covered pretty thoroughly above.
He I believe has to say the same with the intent of transformation; he does not transform everytime he just says the word. Otherwise he'd be transforming back and forth everytime he had a conversation with the wizard.
They officially changed his name to Shazam a few years ago in the comics because, to quote DC (Geoff Johns maybe)? "That's what everyone calls him anyway." (And I'm sure also just to avoid any borderline trademark issues.) So it doesn't matter if it was perfectly legal to call him Captain Marvel inside the comics, it is not actually his name anymore, officially. You can take your issues with that up with DC.
As for the rest, the issues were covered pretty thoroughly above.
He I believe has to say the same with the intent of transformation; he does not transform everytime he just says the word. Otherwise he'd be transforming back and forth everytime he had a conversation with the wizard.
much like the actual name of the character, they have gone back and forth on that last one for years and years. I remember when Billy tricked Black Adam out of access to the word Shazam and switched it to something truly silly that he would never think of, much less say, it does seem anyone powered by that source just has to say the word. Iirc, Shazam(the wizard) kind of stops people from transforming in front of him by saying his name conversation as an act of will to keep stupidity from happening.
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They officially changed his name to Shazam a few years ago in the comics because, to quote DC (Geoff Johns maybe)? "That's what everyone calls him anyway." (And I'm sure also just to avoid any borderline trademark issues.) So it doesn't matter if it was perfectly legal to call him Captain Marvel inside the comics, it is not actually his name anymore, officially. You can take your issues with that up with DC.
Must have happened during the Nu52. :P
Charles,
Yes. Yes it did.
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much like the actual name of the character, they have gone back and forth on that last one for years and years. I remember when Billy tricked Black Adam out of access to the word Shazam and switched it to something truly silly that he would never think of, much less say, it does seem anyone powered by that source just has to say the word. Iirc, Shazam(the wizard) kind of stops people from transforming in front of him by saying his name conversation as an act of will to keep stupidity from happening.They officially changed his name to Shazam a few years ago in the comics because, to quote DC (Geoff Johns maybe)? "That's what everyone calls him anyway." (And I'm sure also just to avoid any borderline trademark issues.) So it doesn't matter if it was perfectly legal to call him Captain Marvel inside the comics, it is not actually his name anymore, officially. You can take your issues with that up with DC.
As for the rest, the issues were covered pretty thoroughly above.
He I believe has to say the same with the intent of transformation; he does not transform everytime he just says the word. Otherwise he'd be transforming back and forth everytime he had a conversation with the wizard.
Thanks, Well Actually Man!
Clarification: I believe in the movie that they are going the route that he has to say it with intention. I haven't seen it yet, so I could be wrong (maybe they'll do it for laughs), but I expect that to be the case. MOREOVER, my point was I really don't think that's an issue we need to worry about/is going to be exploited in the wrong way. The extremely well-reviewed movie seems to be working with whatever internal rules it has just fine.
Now, can I actually get some advice about my dad in this thread or are we only supposed to be constantly nitpicking each other and whining about his name (and yes, I fell into the trap too, I'm sorry). Jesus Christ, people.
much like the actual name of the character, they have gone back and forth on that last one for years and years. I remember when Billy tricked Black Adam out of access to the word Shazam and switched it to something truly silly that he would never think of, much less say, it does seem anyone powered by that source just has to say the word. Iirc, Shazam(the wizard) kind of stops people from transforming in front of him by saying his name conversation as an act of will to keep stupidity from happening.They officially changed his name to Shazam a few years ago in the comics because, to quote DC (Geoff Johns maybe)? "That's what everyone calls him anyway." (And I'm sure also just to avoid any borderline trademark issues.) So it doesn't matter if it was perfectly legal to call him Captain Marvel inside the comics, it is not actually his name anymore, officially. You can take your issues with that up with DC.
As for the rest, the issues were covered pretty thoroughly above.
He I believe has to say the same with the intent of transformation; he does not transform everytime he just says the word. Otherwise he'd be transforming back and forth everytime he had a conversation with the wizard.
Thanks, Well Actually Man!
Clarification: I believe in the movie that they are going the route that he has to say it with intention. I haven't seen it yet, so I could be wrong (maybe they'll do it for laughs), but I expect that to be the case. MOREOVER, my point was I really don't think that's an issue we need to worry about/is going to be exploited in the wrong way. The extremely well-reviewed movie seems to be working with whatever internal rules it has just fine.
Now, can I actually get some advice about my dad in this thread or are we only supposed to be constantly nitpicking each other and whining about his name (and yes, I fell into the trap too, I'm sorry). Jesus Christ, people.
shush. Noone is supposed to know that's me.
More seriously, your dad SHOULD like it. He doesn't seem to have a stick up his nethers from what you described, is just a stoic sort, so he will probably be ok. I plan to watch both shazam and captain marvel in the same sitting as a dark joke. I can hear your eyes rolling from here.
Now if you will excuse me, someone is being slightly inaccurate somewhere on the internet.
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Careful you don't get tangled up in Gail Simone's Twitter! ;)
And thank you.:)
Also helped to prove my point about Captain Marvel of Fawcett fame name change happened in Nu 52.
There was a HILARIOUS spoof Teen titans go that starred Captain Thunder and made fun of the name thing. It also had a painful jab at why comic book and comic book movies have become so dark and grim that makes for good debate.
They also made Captain Thunder speak like elvis which was a hilarious and AWESOME nod.
Cape,
Well yeah...he's going to be Black Adam.
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I thought there were some parts that maybe too scary for younger kids.
I find this slightly encouraging. Captain Marvel/Shazam is the very last character who should ever get the grim 'n gritty treatment, but at the same time I read hardly any of his comics because they struck me as too silly (Tawky Tawny, Uncle Marvel, Marvel Lieutenants, I'm looking at you.)
Based only on the trailers, I was afraid the movie would be silly all the way through (though not full-on cartoonishly so); honestly it looks like the old wizard made a bad choice. But if Billy does get his act together at some point and stop playing with the powers he's been granted, I may actually go see the movie.
Dwayne Johnson is listed as a executive producer.
Is Dwayne Johnson now "The Rock of Eternity?"
I thought there were some parts that maybe too scary for younger kids.I find this slightly encouraging. Captain Marvel/Shazam is the very last character who should ever get the grim 'n gritty treatment, but at the same time I read hardly any of his comics because they struck me as too silly (Tawky Tawny, Uncle Marvel, Marvel Lieutenants, I'm looking at you.)
Based only on the trailers, I was afraid the movie would be silly all the way through (though not full-on cartoonishly so); honestly it looks like the old wizard made a bad choice. But if Billy does get his act together at some point and stop playing with the powers he's been granted, I may actually go see the movie.
Dwayne Johnson is listed as a executive producer.Is Dwayne Johnson now "The Rock of Eternity?"
Now and always has been. That's the big secret.
I saw the movie Thursday, I really enjoyed it. I will have to say it can be a lot darker then I thought it was going to be, not that was a bad thing.
The director's background is in horror movies, and it definitely shows in parts...
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Well, I just thoroughly enjoyed that.
Freddy gets his blue suit, which was damned nifty.
Like the three "new" entries- certainly, I like them more than the Replacement Marvels. Darla, in particular, amuses in a good way.
Mister Mind as the villain stinger in the mid-credits? Glorious.
Sivana crossing with IBAC was... not something I would have come up with, but it worked- especially since "classic" Sivana would be (UNFAIRLY, DAMMIT!) seen as a Lex Luthor ripoff. Giving him a mystical focus and powerset worked.
All told, few surprises in the film as such, but I thoroughly enjoyed the ride.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I liked the movie but didn't love it. I wish they hadn't front-loaded the movie with Sivana's origin, and put pieces of it later on instead. I felt that the movie didn't really start until almost 30 minutes in. I also wish there had been a bit more time for Shazam/Billy to learn about his powers and adjust to them before meeting with Sivana. A scene or two in between the bus scene and their meeting would have been appreciated.
This link goes to rpg.net topic about a picture of various incarnations of Marvel/Shazam
Plus, as others have pointed out. The Wizard did it wrong. Running a yes/no test with instant dismissal just reinforced Sivana's attitude.
This link goes to rpg.net topic about a picture of various incarnations of Marvel/Shazam
I like the painting, though I'm not sure what parameters Alex Ross self-imposed on it. It's not just variants of Captain Marvel/Shazam; someone on the linked forum suggested it was everyone who had a similar gimmick of replacing one entity with another.
Okay, that explains Ultraman but not The Gentleman from Astro City (the Fred MacMurray clone in the bottom left corner) -- how does he fit in?
Or Adam Warlock? Can't just be due to the lightning bolt on his chest; I don't see a Flash anywhere. Then again, I see Mage (the Hero Denied) and Madman -- do they transform?
Including Gomer Pyle is, I admit, hilarious...but also kind of stretches reasonable parameters. Likewise, the genie Shazzan seems out of bounds...though it's true he is summoned by invoking his name.
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There is also he MAD magazine parody SHAZOOM! (Dollar sign on chest)
This link goes to rpg.net topic about a picture of various incarnations of Marvel/Shazam
Plus, as others have pointed out. The Wizard did it wrong. Running a yes/no test with instant dismissal just reinforced Sivana's attitude.
So, uh.... you're gonna give it to the one guy who hasn't even faced the stuff that apparently disqualified literally everyone else?