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It's official: Variety.com: "CW Orders ‘Batwoman’ Pilot Starring Ruby Rose"
YUESSS!!!!! *fist pump*
Great news^^
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It's not exactly a surprise, but now the pilot won't be alone:
Variety.com: "‘Batwoman,’ ‘Katy Keene,’ ‘Nancy Drew’ Ordered to Series at CW"
And here's an animated teaser (Twitter)
Well of those, I'm hoping Batwoman survived for like 8 seasons.
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Waaait wait wait wait, the Jane the Virgin spinoff isn't happening? G%% D~#MIT! That is absolutely one of the best, most intelligent shows on TV and it deserved its sequel. (To be very clear, I am not being sarcastic. I love that show, it is frickin' brilliant. It's one of those shows that looks dumb at a glance and then you watch it and it's an entirely different thing. It is an incredible family series, romance, deals with political issues with nuance and finesse, is one of the only shows since Maude where someone had an abortion that I am aware of and it was dealt with intelligently, deals with women's and LGBT issues brilliantly, has three amazing women at the core of it performed by incredible actresses, has some incredible satire, and yes on the surface it's a hilarious balls to the wall telenovela AND on top of all that it has Bridget Regan as an evil lesbian. Even if the sequel was more of a separate series inspired by Jane with no returning characters, F&%& the CW.) I am heartbroken.
F*%! Katy Keene, too.
Good news about Batwoman, I guess.
Yeah...I can't say I'm that impressed but again, I'm more hopeful about Batwoman since I loved her original run in Detective Comics.
Waaait wait wait wait, the Jane the Virgin spinoff isn't happening? G$* D#&MIT! That is absolutely one of the best, most intelligent shows on TV and it deserved its sequel. (To be very clear, I am not being sarcastic. I love that show, it is frickin' brilliant. It's one of those shows that looks dumb at a glance and then you watch it and it's an entirely different thing. It is an incredible family series, romance, deals with political issues with nuance and finesse, is one of the only shows since Maude where someone had an abortion that I am aware of and it was dealt with intelligently, deals with women's and LGBT issues brilliantly, has three amazing women at the core of it performed by incredible actresses, has some incredible satire, and yes on the surface it's a hilarious balls to the wall telenovela AND on top of all that it has Bridget Regan as an evil lesbian. Even if the sequel was more of a separate series inspired by Jane with no returning characters, F@&* the CW.) I am heartbroken.
F~!# Katy Keene, too.
Good news about Batwoman, I guess.
if my source is to be believed, like a lot of American takes on telenovelas, it got way too expensive to keep going.
Free,
Sounds accurate.
if my source is to be believed, like a lot of American takes on telenovelas, it got way too expensive to keep going.Waaait wait wait wait, the Jane the Virgin spinoff isn't happening? G$* D#&MIT! That is absolutely one of the best, most intelligent shows on TV and it deserved its sequel. (To be very clear, I am not being sarcastic. I love that show, it is frickin' brilliant. It's one of those shows that looks dumb at a glance and then you watch it and it's an entirely different thing. It is an incredible family series, romance, deals with political issues with nuance and finesse, is one of the only shows since Maude where someone had an abortion that I am aware of and it was dealt with intelligently, deals with women's and LGBT issues brilliantly, has three amazing women at the core of it performed by incredible actresses, has some incredible satire, and yes on the surface it's a hilarious balls to the wall telenovela AND on top of all that it has Bridget Regan as an evil lesbian. Even if the sequel was more of a separate series inspired by Jane with no returning characters, F@&* the CW.) I am heartbroken.
F~!# Katy Keene, too.
Good news about Batwoman, I guess.
Your source is not to be believed. Jane the Virgin was always designed to be 5 seasons and was planned to be ended this year from the get-go. Given the new series I don't think even had a pilot yet, I doubt it had a budget to be objected to yet. Even if they had filmed the pilot, I expect more of the thing is the CW decided to go back to its older formula of teen dramas, based on the success of Riverdale.
And what is this "like a lot of American takes on telenovelas" coming from? There's not exactly that many.
Further, Jane was a non-superhero show on the CW, same for the sequel. I doubt its budget was anywhere near as concerning as, say, the Flash or Legends of Tomorrow. It's not like Rose and Luisa formed an atomic superbeing whenever they kissed or anything. (Well, not literally, anyway.)
Speaking of the superhero shows, I _am_ truly interested in Batwoman... sort of. I want to like Ruby Rose but I found her performance in the Crisis crossover a little stilted. Hopefully that was just due to the limitations of that particular crossover.
if my source is to be believed, like a lot of American takes on telenovelas, it got way too expensive to keep going.Waaait wait wait wait, the Jane the Virgin spinoff isn't happening? G$* D#&MIT! That is absolutely one of the best, most intelligent shows on TV and it deserved its sequel. (To be very clear, I am not being sarcastic. I love that show, it is frickin' brilliant. It's one of those shows that looks dumb at a glance and then you watch it and it's an entirely different thing. It is an incredible family series, romance, deals with political issues with nuance and finesse, is one of the only shows since Maude where someone had an abortion that I am aware of and it was dealt with intelligently, deals with women's and LGBT issues brilliantly, has three amazing women at the core of it performed by incredible actresses, has some incredible satire, and yes on the surface it's a hilarious balls to the wall telenovela AND on top of all that it has Bridget Regan as an evil lesbian. Even if the sequel was more of a separate series inspired by Jane with no returning characters, F@&* the CW.) I am heartbroken.
F~!# Katy Keene, too.
Good news about Batwoman, I guess.
Your source is not to be believed. Jane the Virgin was always designed to be 5 seasons and was planned to be ended this year from the get-go. Given the new series I don't think even had a pilot yet, I doubt it had a budget to be objected to yet. Even if they had filmed the pilot, I expect more of the thing is the CW decided to go back to its older formula of teen dramas, based on the success of Riverdale.
And what is this "like a lot of American takes on telenovelas" coming from? There's not exactly that many.
Further, Jane was a non-superhero show on the CW, same for the sequel. I doubt its budget was anywhere near as concerning as, say, the Flash or Legends of Tomorrow. It's not like Rose and Luisa formed an atomic superbeing whenever they kissed or anything. (Well, not...
I'll bring this up when I see them again. Thanks.
And there were scheduled to be at least a few more ugly Betty-esque shows meant to compete when the show was at the height of its popularity. But the one I know about was supposed to rely upon having super famous guest star appearances, and that got too expensive too quickly and so it was dropped before it got past some early planning stages.
Re: the bold, I REALLY want to see that comic...
Ah. I think the "Jane the Novela" concept was supposed to be different stories Jane wrote, and while I think that could be a budget challenge (lots of different sets and the like) I can't imagine it would be anywhere close to Legends of Tomorrow where they go through different time periods and now hellscapes every episode, with superpowers to boot. (COme to think of it Legends of Tomorrow is sort of a superhero telenovela that somehow doesn't have any Latinos in it.)
I would like also to see that comic. And the movie that is made from it. And the ongoing series....
As a consolation to the fact that will likely never happen, maybe the Tick can hire Bridget Regan to play a character who romances Ms. Lint. Sparks will fly!
DQ,
I'm still hopeful that Ruby Rose can do better with a) an actual script for her character and b) more practice on her American accent.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Looks pretty good. They've said for a while that the show will start before where Batwoman was in the Elseworlds crossover, but I'm wondering if that will be only the pilot, then time jump to after Elseworlds to be chronologically in sync with the other Arrowverse shows for the Crisis in the fall, or will the entire first season be prior to then?
The dialogue is a little heavy handed with the "girl power" (And when _I'm_ saying that that's saying something) and they stole Captain Marvel's "her a hero" ("A hero is her?" Seriously?). Bbbbbuuuuuuuut I'd rather this than nothing, and Ruby Rose looks waaaaaaaay more comfortable in the role than she seemed in the crossover. I like the dystopic future feel... it looks a LOT like the old Birds of Prey TV show but with (moments of clunky dialogue aside) way better production values, worldbuild and writing.
And speaking of the old Birds of Prey TV show, the evil blonde lady you see in the trailer is a villain called Alice (of the "Alice in Wonderland" gang, so I wonder if she is a successor to Mad Hatter) and is played by Rachel Skarsten, who played Dinah in the old BoP show.
I am super jazzed about having our first out lesbian superhero solo lead on TV!
It'll air on Sundays, so I wonder if this is going to be paired with Supergirl on Sunday and Charmed will get moved to another night (Charmed would pair well with Riverdale IMO).
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Looks pretty good. They've said for a while that the show will start before where Batwoman was in the Elseworlds crossover, but I'm wondering if that will be only the pilot, then time jump to after Elseworlds to be chronologically in sync with the other Arrowverse shows for the Crisis in the fall, or will the entire first season be prior to then?
From what I understand Crisis will play out sometime after Batwoman premieres.
Crisis On Infinite Earths Crossover Event Will Air Over 5 Hours
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And speaking of the old Birds of Prey TV show, the evil blonde lady you see in the trailer is a villain called Alice (of the "Alice in Wonderland" gang, so I wonder if she is a successor to Mad Hatter) and is played by Rachel Skarsten, who played Dinah in the old BoP show.
I thought she might be White Rabbit from the comics.
And speaking of the old Birds of Prey TV show, the evil blonde lady you see in the trailer is a villain called Alice (of the "Alice in Wonderland" gang, so I wonder if she is a successor to Mad Hatter) and is played by Rachel Skarsten, who played Dinah in the old BoP show.I thought she might be White Rabbit from the comics.
She identifies herself as "Alice" in the trailer, and she is referred to that in the article where you linked the trailer. But they might be pulling from White Rabbit as a possible resource. Or she might be one of the Mad Hatter's sources of obsession who has turned criminal (a la Harley to Joker, as indeed she has a little bit of a Harley vibe).
If it is following the Batwoman comic, in the Elegy story the main antagonist is a character named Alice who is not connected to the Hatter, and looks a lot like this Alice. I am a little reluctant to post spoilers but I will in the spoiler tags.
I strongly suspect this is who Alice is.
little diegito is correct in his spoilers about the comic identity of Alice.
I dunno if that's the route the show will go...I do think though we know that a) Luke will be kind of an Alfred meets Morgan Freeman's Lucius Fox. and b) They might spend a little time on getting Kate up to speed time wise with the story. We'll see especially since the Crisis cross over isn't exactly slated for a specific time frame in the schedule. I mean it will happen but it might be like...episode 9 or 10 before we see Kate in the cross over mix on her show.
I could be wrong.
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It'll air on Sundays, so I wonder if this is going to be paired with Supergirl on Sunday and Charmed will get moved to another night (Charmed would pair well with Riverdale IMO).
SUN - Batwoman/Supergirl
MON - All American/Black LightningTUE - Flash/Arrow
WED - Riverdale/Nancy Drew
THU - Supernatural/Legacies
FRI - Charmed/Dynasty
On a side note, I wasn't too thrilled with Charmed season finale. But I do think having it paired with something OTHER than Supergirl is fine.
Charmed's season finale was ok. Which sort of meshes with the whole season. It had some good and bad, mostly balanced out to be fine... but at the same time not terribly compelling. It's odd... I would say overall it is better written and performed than the original Charmed, but the original had this campy OTT charm (ha!) that made it good guilty-pleasure/so-bad-it's-good watching. The new show tries but lacks in that sort of "charisma," for lack of a better word, and its better writing isn't good enough writing to make it compelling on its own. But it got overall better as the season went on, so hopefully the next season will be better.
Pairing it with Dynasty is weird; but eh. Not many other good pairings.
But Batwoman/Supergirl makes perfect sense.
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The dialogue is a little heavy handed with the "girl power" (And when _I'm_ saying that that's saying something) and they stole Captain Marvel's "her a hero" ("A hero is her?" Seriously?). Bbbbbuuuuuuuut I'd rather this than nothing...
T-the readings I'm getting...girl power is reaching Amby-ent levels...
[Grizzled Sergeant, chomping cigar]- Stay loose, Freehold.
- Uh, Sarge, we're approaching DeathQuaker levels.
[Grizzled Sergeant, chomping cigar]- Stay cool, kid.
Sarge, we are exceeding, I repeat, EXCEEDING DeathQuaker levels!
[Flustered, Grizzled Sergeant, fiddling with cigar]- That's impossible. You're either reading it wrong or your scanner is broken.
SARGE, GIRL POWER WAVE INCOMING!
[Panicked Sergeant, dropping cigar]- Get that shield up!
Controls aren't responding!
[Sergeant] TAKE COVER! TAKE CO-
And speaking of the old Birds of Prey TV show, the evil blonde lady you see in the trailer is a villain called Alice (of the "Alice in Wonderland" gang, so I wonder if she is a successor to Mad Hatter) and is played by Rachel Skarsten, who played Dinah in the old BoP show.
Oooh I hope we are getting white rabbit.
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DQ,
I agree Supergirl and Batwoman pairing (the show, not the characters!) makes sense.
But I kept waiting for Charmed to do something a little more...outside the box. Which they didn't. So yeah, the "charm" and Charisma wasn't there...but I did like their Whitelighter more...
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Good origin story. The reason for her advanced combat training and estrangement from her father makes perfect sense. The twist on who Alice is was a great plot twist.
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I was already pretty sure about who Alice was since it's in the comics.
This was a good start to Kate's origin story. I look forward to seeing more as this evolves and then meshes into Crisis.
I didn't know Alice from comics so I didn't realize who she was until she was talking to Cmdr. Kane at movie night. It was, however, painfully clear that she had an inside man (more to the point, exactly who that was) by the time the Crows reached the orphanage.
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Decent pilot. I am not deeply familiar with the comics but from what I'm aware of there's a lot they've pulled from her comic origin. Some of the dialogue was a bit clunky but hopefully they hit their stride. And yes, that twist (which I also was not aware of from the comics) is great and has ensured I'll watch again next week.
I like this version of Gotham. The factions are well set up, the challenges clear, the ambience is exactly what it should be. This is indeed very much conceptually/setting-wise a lot like the 2000 Birds of Prey series (Batman disappeared, the Birds rose up as the new vigilantes in a chaotic Gotham, with a relative of Bruce Wayne's in particular trying to become the new hero [in that show's case, it was Helena Wayne]) but it is way better written. Much as I love the idea of the Birds, Kate is a much better character to use with this setting.
(And at this point I have accepted the reality that the best version of the Birds, which was what Gail Simone built on Dixon/Gorf's foundation, will NEVER be properly seen in live action. In live action it will always be not quite the right team with not quite the right lead character--I mean, seriously, Harley?--and not quite the right focus. (Which should be a crack task force of heroes, with Black Canary and Oracle as the requisite core, dealing with issues bigger than them and always somehow succeeding due to the power of friendship and sheer badassery.)
Though if this show introduces Oracle eventually, I will love it forever. It would make perfect sense to have Oracle in a post-Batman world, and there was an episode of Arrow forever ago that briefly namedropped her.
I agree with DQ that so far any Birds of Prey...anything that was from Gail Simone's run seems...remote right now. Which is sad but Oh well.
Wow, things are moving quick! Really was expecting the big reveal (in the world, not to the audience) about Alice's identity to be dragged out longer.
So who rescued Beth? In the pilot, there's a shot of a newspaper indicating it was the Joker who hijacked the bus. Did he save her for his own nefarious purposes?
Did Mr. Kane make up the story about the bone fragments to get Kate to give up? (Also that whole thread kept making me think of the Tick Amazon series -- "But they found his teeth!") Or did someone create false evidence to make the trail go cold.
Luke is really f@$%ing annoying and one-note. If he's going to be the Guy In The Chair, he needs something to do other than nag a grown woman about what she should be doing with her possibly dead relative's stuff.
Batwoman is going down the same path as Smallville, it is not going to be too long before everybody knows who she is. She needs to be smarter about protecting her identity Her costume needs lens, I am sure Luke could whip up some pretty high tech ones. She also needs to change or remove her makeup, someone is going to notice Batwoman and Ms. Kane both put on their makeup the same way.
Overall, I like the show. It is a refreshing contrast from Supergirl.
Her costume is going to be upgraded to the actual Batwoman costume which will help, especially with the red wig. Yes, that can fool some people because it changes your overall physical profile.
I don't know about lenses because it may affect the actor's/stunt double's ability to see. That may just require a willing suspension of disbelief.
Her lipstick actually looks different to me in and out of costume. She wears a darker lippy as Kate. She could do the black around the eyes thing, but that takes time to apply.
I'm actually wondering if it will just plotwise become an open secret and her father will find out, which will put them at odds.
DQ,
I doubt it. At least not until Jacob figures out his current wife MIGHT be double dealing/doing some things he might not approve of.
Also he's more of a civilian in this show than his comic book counterpart who was clearly VERY military. So I doubt he'll be the new Alfred.
Did Mr. Kane make up the story about the bone fragments to get Kate to give up? Or did someone create false evidence to make the trail go cold.
Catherine's investigators "found" the bone fragments in a place Kate had methodically searched multiple times. And Catherine was revealed as the one behind the attack at Crows HQ to recover the DNA covered knife. I'd say Catherine planted false evidence.
Luke is really f%@$ing annoying and one-note. If he's going to be the Guy In The Chair, he needs something to do other than nag a grown woman about what she should be doing with her possibly dead relative's stuff.
He's not his dad and he's not Alfred. Given that he doesn't know how to operate the bat computer, it seems clear he was never Bruce's Man in the Chair. Give him a few episodes to grow into the role.
Unless we want Dad to be the man in the chair...I dunno.
Catherine's investigators "found" the bone fragments in a place Kate had methodically searched multiple times. And Catherine was revealed as the one behind the attack at Crows HQ to recover the DNA covered knife. I'd say Catherine planted false evidence.Did Mr. Kane make up the story about the bone fragments to get Kate to give up? Or did someone create false evidence to make the trail go cold.
Oh, okay. Is Catherine her stepmother? I had walked out of the room briefly and came back to see she was on camera with a doom-music sting but missed what it was about. Apparently a bigger deal than I thought at the time!
How the Wonderland Gang knew about the knife was a mystery to me so that explains it. Hmmm. So is she the villain behind the shadows responsible for the birth of Alice so to speak, or is she doing sketchy things just to help Kate let go of the idea of Beth, on behalf of dad? Really could go either way. That would be the tie between both events, to make Kate give up on searching for her sister.
As for Luke, I certainly hope time helps him grow; my problem isn't that he's incapable, just that he is extraordinarily one dimensional.
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I thought the flashback suggested that Kate's dad made up the skull fragments to stop her obsession with searching, and that no such skull fragments existed.
It was a bit vague though, so it could have been that Catherine planted them and was in fact the one who created modern day Alice (probably to get rid of her mom and marry into the Wayne/Kane family fortune).
Yeah, there's definitely room for multiple interpretations in the backstories. Hopefully this will come into sharper focus over more episodes.
For now, I don't think we have enough of Beth/Alice's backstory to make educated guesses about a connection to Catherine; evil stepmom may have only faked the skull fragment DNA results to facilitate closure for Kane so he'd marry her, or she may have rescued Beth from the river and spent 15 years molding her psyche into Alice, or anything in between.
My impression from the flashback was that dad only gave up on the search for Beth once the skull fragments were found. I think that was Catherine's goal; I doubt it mattered much to her what a 12 year old believed or didn't.
As for the skull fragments, many things are possible. Perhaps the most interesting possibility for me would be that Beth was badly injured in the fall, the skull fragments actually are hers, and that Alice has whatever passes for a steel plate in modern surgery. That way, they'd pass anyone's DNA test. Or they could be skull fragments from her mom who died in the crash...in which case they'd only pass the sloppiest of DNA tests, so Catherine's own people would have to run them. In any case I believe Catherine planted them in that field after Kate had already searched there multiple times.
I'm with Damon, it seems likely that either a) Catherine got a hold of some skull fragments that Beth might have lost in the crash or b) faked the results.
I do think she was trying to marry into the Kane family mostly because it's close to the Wayne family. And remember, Bruce had the best toys.
The show isn't great yet, but has potential. Reports about ratings aren't promising, but at the same time it is on Sunday night against some stiff competition. I imagine streaming matters to the CW as much as ratings.
I think the potential is there. Right now we're just seeing Kate's growing pains before Crisis takes us in a different direction. (I assume.)
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I"m not concerned about the ratings - not only is there Sunday night football competition, but it's normal for most shows to have a drop after their premiere. Lots tune in to check it out and not all stay. Plus, you have to look at the +7 day ratings now a days, since so many people DVR shows and watch later.
Hey friends... I tried watching this but my eyes are just hurting. Does it get better or should I delete this from my DVR?
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I think the second episode was better than the first...
Hey friends... I tried watching this but my eyes are just hurting. Does it get better or should I delete this from my DVR?
Personally, I always use the 4 episode rule if I think a series has potential, but the pilot is rough (after all, pilots often are). Usually watching the four episodes are enough to see how they are developing the characters and plot. Less than that isn't enough, IMO, to castigate an entire series (note the word "usually" and not "always"), especially ones like these where it takes some time to establish origin stories, etc.
So my advice is to watch it for yourself and make your own informed opinion, rather than interrupt an ongoing conversation with a question no one can answer yet, given we are only two episodes in.
For whatever it's worth, the general sense of the Internet is that the second episode is much better than the pilot (which is often the case for most tv shows). I hope it continues its upward trend, but it's too early to be certain.
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The show isn't great yet, but has potential. Reports about ratings aren't promising, but at the same time it is on Sunday night against some stiff competition. I imagine streaming matters to the CW as much as ratings.
Streaming is huge for the CW, and I assume they get tons of ad revenue from showing their shows free on their app and Website. They really do not consider ratings in any major way compared to the way other networks do.
For example, comparing comic-book based TV series: Agent Carter's very worst ratings (after a concerted effort by the network to screw it over through schedule changes and poorly advertised double episodes) are equal to or better than the average ratings of many of the CW superhero shows, for example Black Lightning, Legends of Tomorrow, and the later seasons of Arrow (and AC at its best ratings well outdid most of the CW superhero shows; its lowest ratings for its first season still exceeds the best Arrow ever did). But because AC was an ABC series it was considered a failure, whereas the CW probably would have considered it very successful were it on their own channel (of course that would never happen b/c Warner vs Disney, let alone DC vs Marvel; I am simply speaking hypothetically for the sake of argument). Black Lightning is in its third season even though the first season only averaged 2.7 million (horrible by other network standards) and dropped to 1.4 million the following season. Current ratings aren't even hitting a million. And yet I wouldn't predict its cancellation because the CW operates things differently. If it's being watched online, downloaded, merchandise purchased, etc. such that it's profitable and they want to make it, they'll make it. (Also it's a shame Black Lightning ratings are so low, as it's one of the CW's best shows, although I admit I've lost the plot a bit as of the third season--but again, I expect a lot of viewers stream.)
Another comparison from a different perspective: Supergirl on CBS had nearly 10 million viewers, yet CBS still didn't want to keep it on their own channel. At the CW at best it's done around 2-3 million and yet is probably easily one of its most popular and talked about series.
As it is Batwoman is doing better than Black Lightning and about the same as Legends of Tomorrow's last season. It's also on par with iZombie (which is another DC Comics-based series but is in its own universe), which has done five seasons and hasn't done more than 1.68 million in terms of ratings since its second season. (Premiere of Batwoman was 1.86 and ep 2 was 1.45.)
The problem is I don't think they would get the right feel for the series if they keep it in the same universe. Helena on Arrow was way too dark and ridiculous (which is saying something, given Helena Bertinelli began as a "for mature readers" comic book hero). As you say, the Canaries are just... no. I liked where they were taking Laurel, but then they killed her. Black Siren is interesting but she's not Black Canary. And I like Sarah, but she's not Black Canary either and I like her on the Legends. And Dinah... well, I barely watch Arrow anymore so I really can't judge her, but she doesn't seem right for the role that Canary played on that team in the comics. Plus, it's that friendship built up over time between Dinah (in the comics) and Babs is crucial and I don't think they'd be able pull that off with their writers pool. OTOH, I think the Arrowverse needs Zinda Blake in it and that we haven't met her on Legends yet is a crime.
I would LOVE to see Oracle on Batwoman, though. It seems like it could be possible and reasonable for her to show up. I don't want to see the show become a carnival of Gotham superheroes, however--yes, there could be room for a LOT of folks to show up (and there is already the question if Luke becomes Batwing eventually). This is a solo series, it should remain focused on Kate, with a few strong supporting characters. The CW has kind of burned me out on solo shows that have become badly run ensemble series with bad character development (I'm looking at you, Arrow and Flash). Not to mention, the show "Gotham" became a headache trying to track who everyone was.
On another note, I figured out why Luke was bothering me. He's playing discount Chidi Anagonye from The Good Place. I love Chidi. Such a character's presence is jarring in this kind of show.
So my advice is to watch it for yourself and make your own informed opinion, rather than interrupt an ongoing conversation with a question no one can answer yet, given we are only two episodes in.
Sorry for interrupting your conversation.