Birds of Prey (2020-ish)


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Sources confirm Margot Robbie is producing and starring in the upcoming Birds of Prey set in the current DC Comics film universe. The movie will feature Black Canary, Huntress, Cassandra Cain, Renee Montoya as The Question and Robbie reprising her role as Harley Quinn from Suicide Squad. The (a?) currently unnamed villain they will be facing "is a Batman character never before seen on the big screen."

No additional casting has been announced. Birds of Prey is set to be directed by Cathy Yan from a script written by Christina Hodson.


Not sure how I feel about Cassie being in there...

Sovereign Court

Another DC movie nobody asked for.

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Negachaotic Teenage Slaadhead wrote:

Sources confirm Margot Robbie is producing and starring in the upcoming Birds of Prey set in the current DC Comics film universe. The movie will feature Black Canary, Huntress, Cassandra Cain, Renee Montoya as The Question and Robbie reprising her role as Harley Quinn from Suicide Squad. The (a?) currently unnamed villain they will be facing "is a Batman character never before seen on the big screen."

No additional casting has been announced. Birds of Prey is set to be directed by Cathy Yan from a script written by Christina Hodson.

Ooooooo...

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I'm cautiously optimistic about this, and it's GREAT Cassie Cain is in this, she's a great character and very suitable with this lineup. I'm even more excited to see Huntress on the big screen as she's always been one of my favorites. Hell, the whole lineup is great. Montoya? Black Canary? Awesome.

The biggest oddball in the lineup is Harley herself, but I reckon they are definitely going for a more antiheroic version of her than balls to the wall insane, picking up from Suicide Squad. And I can live with that, especially as Robbie appears to be helping run the show (and she'll want decent character development for her own character), and the creative team looks pretty good. (And I love Harley too.)

Christina Hodson is also now writing the Batgirl movie which should also hopefully mean there is not a disconnect between Babs Gordon's story and the Birds'. After all, Oracle was a founding member of the Birds of Prey in the comics. Hopefully that means there's also some consistency in tone.

It could also be a royal mess (see also: the Birds of Prey TV show during the Oughties) but given the lineup and the creative team I, again, am cautiously optimistic.

Gail Simone also seemed really excited about it on her Twitter feed so that makes me feel a little more confident about it too. Now, if the creative team would have the sense to consult with Gail, who wrote the most successful, best-selling issues of the Birds of Prey Comic.... then I'd absolutely wholeheartedly be on board.

Liberty's Edge

First Trailer

Looks interesting.


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Looks fun.


I'm going to be honest...I'm not impressed so far. I'm not saying this will be BvS bad...but it's not quite good either... At least as I see it.

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I think like many, the trailer looks like "Harley Quinn" and not "Birds of Prey," and I'm wondering why they didn't just make "Harley Quinn." While I'm normally someone who doesn't really criticize trailers (like I see a lot of people say "this trailer was bad" re various films and I'm like "looks good to me!"), I have to say I wonder if it was made poorly. It feels like they don't know how to market it. It's hard to tell if it's an action gangster piece or a girls night out meets heist film or a superhero(villain) movie. Also, "Quick, no one's hardly heard of the others, so put Margot Robbie in it a lot!"

All that said I agree it could definitely be fun, and I look forward to hearing more about it. Even if it is 90% Harley Quinn with the BoPpers in the background... Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn was the best thing about Suicide Squad and she's a great performer, so on that alone it should be fun to watch.

And "fun to watch" is all I really want out of these things. I don't need a magnum opus. I'm kind of *done* with GIANT EPIC superhero movies. Not every superhero movie needs to be Endgame... thank god.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
All that said I agree it could definitely be fun, and I look forward to hearing more about it. Even if it is 90% Harley Quinn with the BoPpers in the background... Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn was the best thing about Suicide Squad and she's a great performer, so on that alone it should be fun to watch.

Gotham City Sirens would have been a better way to go. :(


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So...I have a pretty strong hate on for comic book antiheroes in general, and what I think of as "casually reformed" villains in particular. I was fine with the concept of the Suicide Squad in comics, because no one pretended they (including Waller) were good guys. And yes, Margot Robbie was fun to watch as Harley in the Suicide Squad movie. But I'm just never going to be on board with Deadpool, the Punisher*, Harley Quinn, etc. cast as anything remotely resembling heroes.

*My beef with the Punisher is partly due to just how comics often handled violence in the 80's: Frank Castle "battled" his opponents, leaving them "woozy"...from a hail of bullets?!?

So, with that too-long disclaimer out of the way, I wasn't the target audience to begin with for a movie that even includes Harley as anything other than straight up villain. But that trailer looks less like "Birds of Prey meet Harley Quinn" than it does "Birds of Prey get cameos in Harley's solo film."

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Damon Griffin wrote:
So, with that too-long disclaimer out of the way, I wasn't the target audience to begin with for a movie that even includes Harley as anything other than straight up villain. But that trailer looks less like "Birds of Prey meet Harley Quinn" than it does "Birds of Prey get cameos in Harley's solo film."

So, what you are saying is that Margot Robbie as Harley would have been awesome in -what should have been- a Black Canary movie?


Lord Fyre wrote:
So, what you are saying is that Margot Robbie as Harley would have been awesome in -what should have been- a Black Canary movie?

Dunno if that's what I said, but yeah, I'd definitely watch that. :)

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Lord Fyre wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
All that said I agree it could definitely be fun, and I look forward to hearing more about it. Even if it is 90% Harley Quinn with the BoPpers in the background... Margot Robbie's Harley Quinn was the best thing about Suicide Squad and she's a great performer, so on that alone it should be fun to watch.
Gotham City Sirens would have been a better way to go. :(

I loved that comic run several years ago and when both it and what I consider the "real" Birds of Prey (Gail Simone's run centered on Oracle, Black Canary, Huntress, and Lady Blackhawk, which built up from the foundation Dixon and Gorfinkel laid) were cancelled to make way for the New 52, I have never forgiven DC for it. Animosity back then, mainly just disinterest now. It's been broken down and rebuilt too often for me to be reinvested... it's like watching this beautiful country cottage get demolished for a s%&@ty condo, and then when too many people hated the s!@&ty condo, they demolish that and build a new cottage, but it's still made of lousier materials and stock filled with trendy gewgaws. I was a huge DC fan from about age 3 to 36, and then they lost me. Only DC books I'm reading right now are Wonder Woman and JL Dark, and the latter I am about to drop and I'll probably drop the former when Wilson leaves. Aaaaaaaanyway... sorry about that rant of nerddisappointment.

I think GSS would make a GREAT movie. I think they didn't in part because they are all key Gotham City/Batman villains and with the fate of Batman in the DCEU they weren't sure if they wanted to use them/they were being "saved" for something else. (Mind you, I agree wholeheartedly we'd be better off with GSS to serve the purposes of this movie. Just saying why I think it didn't happen.)

My hope is the introduction of the Birds of Prey... who, even Black Canary, are all somewhat lesser known to the mainstream audience (than say Catwoman or Poison Ivy), will lead to them having more involvements in the DCEU down the line. Of course it all depends on the success of this film, which is up in the air.

My biggest issue from this film is that I'm not sure what it is. But maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it's carving out its own niche. I want to be hopeful about this. WW, Aquaman, and Shazam were all good (I was especially surprised by Aquaman). James Gunn is on Suicide Squad. There's talk of Secret Six (sorry Damon, more antiheroes--bad news for you, great news for me as they're my favorite type of comic book character) which could be awesome.

Anyway, trying to be optimistic. I have a lot of questions, but we'll see where this goes.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
(Mind you, I agree wholeheartedly we'd be better off with GSS to serve the purposes of this movie. Just saying why I think it didn't happen.)

What is the purpose of this movie? With the the trailer is showing, it may be that Warner Bros. don't know either. :(

But yeah. If they wanted something Harley centric - then why not make a Harley Quinn film?

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Lord Fyre wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
(Mind you, I agree wholeheartedly we'd be better off with GSS to serve the purposes of this movie. Just saying why I think it didn't happen.)

What is the purpose of this movie? With the the trailer is showing, it may be that Warner Bros. don't know either. :(

But yeah. If they wanted something Harley centric - then why not make a Harley Quinn film?

What I meant was "if they wanted a Harley-centered Lady Team Movie."

Otherwise, I know as much as you do.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
(Mind you, I agree wholeheartedly we'd be better off with GSS to serve the purposes of this movie. Just saying why I think it didn't happen.)

What is the purpose of this movie? With the the trailer is showing, it may be that Warner Bros. don't know either. :(

But yeah. If they wanted something Harley centric - then why not make a Harley Quinn film?

What I meant was "if they wanted a Harley-centered Lady Team Movie."

Otherwise, I know as much as you do.

Which is - of course - very little. :(

The teaser that WB released doesn't do a particularly good job in this respect.


Right now all we know for sure is Obi-wan is apparently a badly dressed mobster, and Harley is there to do...I guess Deadpool jokes?

I mean not quite what I wanted out of a Birds of Prey adaptation, but if this was just a Harley movie...maybe?


DeathQuaker wrote:
There's talk of Secret Six (sorry Damon, more antiheroes--bad news for you, great news for me as they're my favorite type of comic book character) which could be awesome.

It's cool that other fans get their favorites, as long as I get mine. And villains-as-mercenaries or villains-as-convicts-the-government-uses-as-expendable-agents, or even villains-teaming-up-with-heroes-to-fight-an-existential-threat are all fine with me. Just so everyone remembers they're not heroes. (I've suffered a lot of cognitive dissonance from watching the CW's Arrow all these years.)

I tried pulling info on the late '60s Secret Six -- don't recall any of them being antiheroes -- but Google being what it is, I mostly get hits for the New Earth version, even using keywords like "original" or "Silver Age."

Apropos of nothing, there is also a 1931 movie called The Secret 6: Bootlegger/cafe owner Johnny Franks (Ralph Bellamy) recruits crude working man Slaughterhouse Scorpio (Wallace Beery) to join his gang which is masterminded by crooked criminal defense lawyer Richard Newton (Lewis Stone.) Scorpio eventually takes over Franks' operation, beats a rival gang, becomes wealthy and dominates the city for several years until a secret group of 6 masked businessmen have him prosecuted and sent to the electric chair with the help of rival crusading newspapermen (Clark Gable and Johnny Mack Brown.) Waitress Jean Harlow is torn between her love for the honest newsman Brown and her financial dependence on her generous boss, Scorpio.

Haven't seen that one in a long time.

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The Secret Six I was referring to was several of the more recent series done this century (although the Wikipedia entry covers both the newer versions as well as the Silver Age heroic group). Pre-52, post-Infinite Crisis version was Catman, Deadshot, Scandal Savage, Ragdoll, Cheshire, and Parademon. Followup monthly series brought in Knockout, Mad Hatter, Bane, and a new character named Jeannette, and Black Alice, in various successions and roles. There was a post-52 version with Catman, Ragdoll, a disguised Ralph Dibny going by the name "Big Shot," Black Alice, one of the Ventriloquists, Strix, and Porcelain (the latter two I think were new characters). There were rumors of a movie being based on one of these lineups, not the 60s heroic series. They are the villains/antiheroes as mercenaries sort of thing. They certainly don't pretend to be good guys, but they occupy a fun shade of gray rather than be blah-argh-kill-everyone sort of nasties you find in comic book villainy.

I agree with you that it's annoying when clearly gray-morality characters are described as heroes, and that Arrow's definition of what a hero did or didn't do was dizzyingly inconsistent.


I liked the post Infinite Crisis Pre-Flashpoint/Nu-52 version of Secret Six. That was good.

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I am less then thrilled at the Birds of Prey costumes. :(

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Given the looks, I doubt those are their only costumes. From this clip in the trailer, it looks like what some of them are wearing when Harley recruits them. And I'll note in the clip, Black Canary is wearing a jacket that makes that outfit work a lot better.

Huntress's isn't bad--although I hate the midriff thing, that's been common to her look since the god-f@~!ing-awful Jim Lee-designed costume from years back became a thing. I do miss her cross iconography. But I like the cut and feel of it, and the colors.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
Given the looks, I doubt those are their only costumes. From this clip in the trailer, it looks like what some of them are wearing when Harley recruits them. And I'll note in the clip, Black Canary is wearing a jacket that makes that outfit work a lot better.

Harley ... recruits ... them??

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I am going by the context provided in the trailer. She is the one saying, "We need to work together." Perhaps "recruit" is the wrong word. Does "Brings them together?" stick in your craw less?

This is not your mama's (or Chuck Dixon's or Gail Simone's) Birds of Prey. I wish it was. I'm still interested in the film because I like Robbie as Harley and I'm curious as to where they go with it. I expect it will at least be better than Suicide Squad, although I recognize that is a low bar. (Though honestly I enjoyed Suicide Squad, but that's because I went in with absolutely zero expectations or hope. Most of the criticisms I've seen levied against the film are valid. I just liked the shooty fighty quippy explody bits.)

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Gotham City Sirens would still have been a better use of the Harley Quinn character. :(
Yes, I know I am preaching to the choir

Bridget Regan would have been a great choice for Dr. Pamela Isley.

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*dons her choir robes and hits a high C*

Regan would make a great Pamela Isley. Sadly I don't know if they'd cast her because she's 8 years older than Robbie, and they'd probably want to cast someone closer to her in age, and in Hollywood unfortunately that s*$+ matters. Even when you look like this. But it could still work.

I'd also love to see Bridget Regan as an older (relatively speaking), wiser Kate Kane in a movie. (Ruby Rose is fine in the TV show, but she's no Bridget Regan.)

Disclaimer: my highest note is actually only a G.

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So Gail Simone has been gushing nonstop about how awesome the cast of BOP is, from when she got to go visit the set while they were filming. She hasn't seen the movie yet, which is a fair caveat, but what she saw, she thought everyone was perfectly portrayed and cast and the direction was good. She is super stoked about the BOP film.

And if Gail is super stoked about the film, then so am I. Can't wait till next week.

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DeathQuaker wrote:
So Gail Simone has been gushing nonstop about how awesome the cast of BOP is, from when she got to go visit the set while they were filming. She hasn't seen the movie yet, which is a fair caveat, but what she saw, she thought everyone was perfectly portrayed and cast and the direction was good. She is super stoked about the BOP film.

I am still not thrilled about the costuming. :(

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Lord Fyre wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
So Gail Simone has been gushing nonstop about how awesome the cast of BOP is, from when she got to go visit the set while they were filming. She hasn't seen the movie yet, which is a fair caveat, but what she saw, she thought everyone was perfectly portrayed and cast and the direction was good. She is super stoked about the BOP film.
I am still not thrilled about the costuming. :(

I've seen a few shots and stills that make me feel better about it. There's one I saw of Huntress in particular where I was like, Oh yeah, of course that's Huntress. And Canary's costume when she has the leather jacket on looks good (though I'm not keen on the gold halter without the jacket). And I'm not going to let costumes get me down if the rest of the film is good. While I think it's important, for the Birds in particular, who in comics didn't always GO costumed depending on the mission, I can give some good leeway there.


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Well if Gail's on board...it can't be THAT bad...

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DeathQuaker wrote:

*dons her choir robes and hits a high C*

Regan would make a great Pamela Isley. Sadly I don't know if they'd cast her because she's 8 years older than Robbie, and they'd probably want to cast someone closer to her in age, and in Hollywood unfortunately that s++& matters. Even when you look like this. But it could still work.

Circling back to your comment on Hollywood Ageism.


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I'll be taking my daughter to see this.

She is a big fan of antiheroes.


Good cast =/= good movie.

I'll watch it but I'm not holding my breath. That's being held for WW 1984.

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The bigger thing was that Gail is stoked having actually been on the set and watching them film, and if she's stoked about the movie, so am I. (If she didn't think it would be good she just wouldn't be saying anything.) I've also heard good things elsewhere. And while this should be taken with a large grain of salt, the Tomatometer is high so far. There are negative reviews, but they are the same negative reviews that most movie critics give action movies ("too much action! I can't tell what's going on! There's girls in it who aren't being dainty and polite! This movie about a manic, violent anti-hero is too manic, violent, and antiheroic! Get off my lawn!").

I also expect WW 1984 to be amazing, but we can have more than one good movie. It's also going to be an entirely different movie. If they were similar, I'd be worried for both sets of protagonists.

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DeathQuaker wrote:

The bigger thing was that Gail is stoked having actually been on the set and watching them film, and if she's stoked about the movie, so am I. (If she didn't think it would be good she just wouldn't be saying anything.) I've also heard good things elsewhere. And while this should be taken with a large grain of salt, the Tomatometer is high so far. There are negative reviews, but they are the same negative reviews that most movie critics give action movies ("too much action! I can't tell what's going on! There's girls in it who aren't being dainty and polite! This movie about a manic, violent anti-hero is too manic, violent, and antiheroic! Get off my lawn!").

I also expect WW 1984 to be amazing, but we can have more than one good movie. It's also going to be an entirely different movie. If they were similar, I'd be worried for both sets of protagonists.

Let's hope it doesn't suffer the same fate as Charlie's Angels. :(

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I liked Charlie's Angels, but it came out at the wrong time with the wrong marketing. And unlike in the early 2000s, there's not been a wave of 70s show reboots lately that it could ride. There is a big ass superhero wave now though and has been one for awhile.

Even if bop is a hot mess, I expect it to be an entertaining one. Hope to see it tomorrow night, we'll see.


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It can't do much worse than MiB International....

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....

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^_____________________^

Guys, there may have been a scene where I "whoop"ed out loud at full volume.

Okay, for real (I'll be rambly, but no real spoilers):

Disclaimer: The following review is from someone who loves the Birds of Prey more than any other superhero team ever, who loves Huntress and Black Canary especially, and likes Harley Quinn well enough to enjoy a movie about her. Your mileage may vary depending upon investment in the characters involved.

It starts slow and a bit messy. There's a little time jumping at the start where I had a little trouble following (and one scene in particular where I still can't wrap my head around where it happens in relation to everything else). (Weirdly, the other movie I recently struggled with for time jumping was Little Women. But ultimately, I actually followed the plot of this movie easier to follow than the recent Little Women movie and I read the frikkin' book, so take that for what you will.) It takes awhile for them to get all the parts moving and the right pieces together.

But once it does....

OH MAN.

IT. IS. F*+*ING. MAGICAL.

In an extraordinarily violent and psychedelic way, mind, but woah. It is just magical. There's just suddenly all these moments where you're like AW YEAH and THIS IS HAPPENING and THIS IS AWESOME!!!!

There's a moment... where Huntress in particular is doing her thing, and all of a sudden, I am sixteen years old again, reading the pile of Huntress monthlies by Joey Cavalieri and Joe Staton that a pen pal sent me. I may have been literally shaking with sheer, utter, glee. That was my Huntress. MY HUNTRESS. My Helena Bertinelli. Finally, in live action. (No, the Arrow version doesn't count.) Mine. Just that right mix of ruthless with the oh so carefully hidden soft chewy center, and a bit of a dork when she's not smoulderingly staring at someone with her crossbow. My Huntress was in a movie and you can never ever take that away from me now.

(Take that, Laeta Kalogiridis! You can't hurt me any more!)

All of the adult characters are amazingly good takes. They pull from the best bits of the background and twist just enough of what they need to to fit this particular DCEU and this particular Gotham. Renee Montoya has a much larger role than you might guess--and fitting, since her origins, like Harley's, are from BTAS. I like the take on her. She has a few awful cop partners, but for better or worse, none are named Bullock. (I am sad not to have seen Bullock, but I am glad that the jerks weren't supposed to be him.) Rosie Perez is great. There is one joke about her that did not need to be repeated twice but that's about the worst thing about her. She is sympathetic and gritty and heroic and a good detective.

Black Canary's background was least expanded upon although the important points were there: she is daughter of the original Black Canary, she went her own way when her mother died. She starts off in a bad situation. It gets better. She is also awesome and absolutely the right mix of fierce and sisterly. She has signs of a good leadership streak if it is allowed to grow (this is a younger Dinah, not a seasoned one). And Jurnee Smollett Bell, the actress--in addition to nailing the character, I have to say, she may not be technically superpowered, but her singing voice slays.

Huntress I waxed on already but I'll add they got her origin story well done, a good mix of a few different versions.

And Harley. It is recognizably the Harley from Suicide Squad but she is more consistently written, directed, and portrayed. Robbie was fine in SS, but absolutely f*$#ing perfect as Harley here. They do not pull punches with Harley's character. She is, in her own words, a terrible person. But also charming as f~#& and just enough of that hint of relatability and humanity that makes her a sympathetic protagonist, even if a highly unlikely one. One of my favorite bits was they took care, unlike some versions of Harley, to work in her background as a psychiatrist, and make it work for her character extremely well.

Now, these are the adult characters. Standalone, in and of this movie, Cassandra Cain is a fine character. She's an adorable streetwise thief kid, and well acted. She has a major role in the movie so it's important she is fun to watch and she is. As a fan of comics and other DC media, I am baffled as to why they named her Cassandra Cain---especially when the other characters are so obviously well-based off their comics and other media versions and this chick is NOT the young Batgirl/Black Bat at all. She reminds me most of kid-Selina in the first season of Gotham. And she's really just her own character. I think they could have gotten away with just creating a new character with a new name. Nothing wrong with introducing a new character in a different superhero medium. After all, Montoya and Harley aren't from the comics originally either. I think if you were a massive massive fan of Cassandra from the comics you'd be very disappointed in this movie. Other than that she's fine.

Villains?

Let me tell you something. There is one villain in the comics who I am legit scared of. Like gives me total the heebie jeebies; I have to think twice about reading any comic with him in it. He SPOOKS me. The body horror man. The body horror. Black Mask. I am so scared of Black Mask.

The movie and Ewan MacGregor NAILED IT. He is utterly horrible. I will have to go to bed with my Huntress and Black Canary action figures to be safe. They got him just right.

And I am not sure if they really announced his presence in the film so I'll spoiler this just in case (no it's not Joker and it's not a huge role):

Spoiler:

Mr. Zsasz is also really good. If you're disappointed in how non-Zsasz-looking he is, wait.

Some things that may or may not make you feel good (or bad): this is very definitely a Harley Quinn movie first. It is her movie and it is indeed about her Fantabulous Emancipation, and as such it is really good.

It is also an origin story for the Birds of Prey. And as such, it is also really, really good.

The above two statements taken together may not make sense to you, but it will. It will make perfect sense by the end. I am really hoping it does well enough for the sequels they were clearly trying to set up. (And I think a Gotham City Sirens could still happen.)

The costumes? May not be what everyone want, but they work within the context of the movie. And pickier individuals may be more pleased than they expect if they get through the whole movie.

The sets were incredible. Like they deserve a f&~%ing award incredible. Really really good take on Gotham, a good mix of gritty city with some creepy, rundown gothy scenery. Beautiful mix of color and shadow.

The soundtrack is a-f+%~ing-mazing.

The audience was small for the large theater we were in (which mind is a little-known independently owned theater and most people go to the nearby fancy place where you reserve a recliner seat), but everyone in the audience (who seemed like a fairly typical crew of geeky guys and gals who go see superhero movies on opening weekend) was having a very good time. Lots of laughing out loud in the right spots and cheering when the protagonists have a victory. (Oh and that one moment I whooped... I was not the only one making noise...)

Finally, it was about a billion times better than Suicide Squad (which I also enjoyed as an action film, but was a hot frikkin' mess). It does make reference to the movie enough to know it comes afterward, and it borrows some of the visual style.

I cannot promise you will love it, but I walked out of the theater utterly delighted, even if it was not perfect. And I hope for more. Godspeed.

ETA, for a TL;DR: Gail Simone calls it "John Wick meets My Little Pony." That's pretty much it.


DeathQuaker wrote:


"John Wick meets My Little Pony."

Considering I don't like either, this does not bode well.

Oh well, I'll still watch it. Perhaps it's better than that.

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Bjorn, I honestly wouldn't waste your time if you don't think you'll like it. It's got a very specific energy about it; the summary comparison notes that basically it is very violent and many of the protagonists engage in illegal and nasty actions at times, although it's often fighting people worse than them. And at the time it's very colorful and focuses a lot on building friendships in unusual circumstances (and arguably, targets a mostly female audience but geeky dudes may find they enjoy it hugely as well). It's Gotham City with glitter glued to it.

Come to think of it, it accomplishes what Suicide Squad failed to do, really. This movie much more believably takes a group of misfits, some of whom are criminals and criminally insane, and gives them a purpose to want to work together, to develop a bond amid extreme situations. So as a follow up to Suicide Squad it both builds on that and does it much better.

If that's not your thing then don't waste your money. I adored it, but not everything is for everyone.


There are movies whose arrival on cable or as DVD rentals I await with some anticipation, but don't care to see in a theatrical release. I think this will be one of those for me.

I'm not a Harley Quinn fan (mainly because I'm down on antiheroes, especially villains-turned-antiheroes, in general) but I cannot deny Margot Robbie brought the awesome to the role in Suicide Squad*.

Plus, "my" Huntress was and remains Helena Wayne of Earth-2. Coincidentally, this month's shipment from my online comic retailer included the Huntress: Origins tpb, collecting stories from DC Super Stars #17, Batman Family #18-20, and Wonder Woman #271-287, #289, #290, #294, and #295.

You may wonder why, like Bjorn, I'll watch this at all if I've already decided it's not my cup of tea. Sometimes, it may just be morbid curiosity; usually, it's because it's hard for me as a comic reader for 50 years to believe that a comic-based movie/TV show can be all bad...and I want to see the good bits. (After all, I did stick with CW's Arrow through its entire run, and that had an undeniable antihero vibe for much of its run. I mean, several heroes and their sometime allies were members/former members of the fershlugginer League of Assassins.)

*Which I watched on cable because, ick, villains-as-antiheroes.


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I went to see it with my daughter, we both loved it, I highly recommend it.

Easily the best DC movie, and better than some Marvel movies.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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If y'all don't mind a tangent...

DQ talks about Huntresses:

Damon, "your" Huntress got to go live action in the BoP TV series. Maybe not the best outing, but just FYI if you are not aware.

Now, for the record, Helena Wayne was my FIRST Huntress too, and I liked her. She just never grabbed me the way Helena Bertinelli did, and that's why Bertinelli is "mine" -- not because she was my first exposure to the Huntress but just because her stories spoke to me in a way that made her extremely important to me.

But indeed, Helena Wayne actually led me to Helena Bertinelli... not in the way you would think.

The first comics I bought for myself with my very own allowance were Wonder Woman comics. I was deeply enamored of the Lynda Carter TV series and that's what got me buying comics from there (Superfriends too, but the WW TV show especially). Stories about the Huntress, Helena Wayne, were in the back of Wonder Woman comics. I found them interesting, although a little strange (I was probably a little too young at the time to appreciate some of the pulpy noir references). I do remember being fascinated though that she was Batman and Catwoman's daughter, and how that must have impacted her.

I should note, I bought this particular series of Wonder Woman comics over the summer while we were on vacation and I could get to a comic shop/bookstore. The last books I got ended with a shot of someone on another world with the sky growing red...

And then we went home, where I lived well away from any place that sold comics... so much so that I hardly was able to buy any for the next several years. For some reason the titles that I wanted to buy looked different from before when I did get to the shop, and I wasn't sure where to start again...

That's right kids, I totally missed Crisis on Infinite Earths and had no freakin' idea it had happened at all and and therefore no idea why almost all the superheroes looked different.

About eight-ten years later, after the Burton Batman films started coming out, I started getting really interested in superheroes again. I bought a few, but I wondered... hey, whatever happened to that Huntress lady? I haven't seen her in any comics in a long time. (Bearing in mind I only got to a comic shop a few times a year.)

I decided, knowing it was HIGHLY unlikely to garner any response, to write to DC and ask. What happened to Batman and Catwoman's daughter?

Unbeknownst to me, they published my letter in Detective Comics. As it just so happened they were bringing Helena Bertinelli into a story in that comic, and my letter gave them the perfect opportunity to explain to occasional readers like me the difference between pre- and post-Crisis Huntress.

Back then, lettercols printed the city and state you lived in. And a guy who read my letter called directory services (it was, after all, the dark ages) to see if he could get my phone number. I lived in a small town and the only people by my last name were my folks and my grandparents, who lived in an attached in-law suite to our house. He called my grandparents' house and asked for me.

I know, this was potentially skeevy. Even as young and naive as I was, I knew a stranger calling me from a comic book letter could be up to no good. But I decided to listen to what he had to say.

He had read my letter (which again I had no idea about) and explained to me Crisis and Huntress and all of that... and said, "I have extra copies of the Huntress monthly that introduces Helena Bertinelli, and I think they are really good. Would you like them?" I said yes.

He was good to his word, and while perhaps it was odd to call a stranger and offer to mail them comics, he was not creepy. He sent me most of the entire run for free, just because he wanted to share comics he thought were good with other people. Really cool, right?

I was 16 years old and looking for something different. The Huntress books by Cavalieri/Staton were perfect. The original Huntress monthly was one of their early "for mature readers" (although probably it would seem tame by comparison these days in some ways) titles. I was fascinated by it. I loved the grittier crime drama that she was engaged in, fighting "real" organized criminals rather than costumed kooks. I loved her struggle between thirsting for vengeance and living inside that armor, and slowly finding people in her life that she wanted to build connection to. I struggled a lot with rage and anger management back then, and while I didn't want to attack people with crossbows, reading her stories was a great outlet for me in that way, and also helped give me hope I too could find some good friends to connect to. She was also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and so was I, and so she also became a source of strength for me in that way as well. Finally, she was a school teacher, like my totally awesome mom (who would not approve of anyone shooting people with crossbows, but still). She felt like a really real character to me, and was a source of inspiration and comfort to me at a time when I needed more unusual heroes.

So seeing this Huntress, with all that makes her strong as well as what makes her vulnerable, come to actual life, is really super special to me, and I hope y'all can understand that. I hope you all get the same experience with your heroes as well, if you haven't already.

And none of that is to knock Helena Wayne. After all, without my curiosity about her, I never would have found my hero, Helena Bertinelli.


I'm glad that DQ enjoyed it.


Man not a single super power between the whole cast eh?


I'm planning to see it on Sunday (today, now, but after a sleep). Can anyone explain to me why Black Canary is never allowed in live action to just have her super power?


Thanks for sharing that, DQ.

I did watch Birds of Prey...damn, almost 20 years ago...but was kind of put off by their takes on the characters (Helena as feline metahuman, Dinah as a touch telepath and precog? WTF? Still, Dina Meyer and Mia Sara were a pleasure to watch.

I wrote to comics a few times. I only recall a couple:

Spoiler:

(1) Decades ago I wrote to X-Men suggesting that Xavier gift Rogue with a mutant inhibitor collar or bracelet with a simple toggle switch. On/off. It's not rocket science. And I wanted the first date with her after she had it in place.

(2) A minister had written to Tomb of Dracula to protest the phrase 'damnable cross' used in the comic. It had of course been used by Dracula, so it was perfectly in character. The minister's address was published with his letter.

I wrote him and by way of showing that Marvel wasn't anti-Christian, referenced both the "friend" who appeared to Johnny Blaze and a scene from The Mighty Thor #303 where Thor rescues a Catholic priest from a collapsing church. The priest had already been suffering a crisis of faith and now wonders if all along he should have been worshiping gods he could see. Thor assures the priest that his earlier faith was not misplaced, and that he, Odin and all other gods spring from the same "universal higher force."

He wrote me back, we discovered a shared interest in pulp stories, and "The Reverend Steve" and I exchanged copies of The Shadow Magazine, Shadow radio show tapes and 70's paperback reprints of The Shadow, Doc Savage and The Avenger for a few years. Our pre-Internet, pre-email network grew and before long we had pulp fans in New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio and myself in Texas helping build each others' collections via Kinko's and USPS.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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GM SuperTumbler wrote:
I'm planning to see it on Sunday (today, now, but after a sleep). Can anyone explain to me why Black Canary is never allowed in live action to just have her super power?

Uhhhhh, first, I think you should go see the movie.

Second of all, she's had her super power in live action several times. Going chronologically since the year 2000, Black Canary in BOP 2002 had it (but her name was Carol Lance and she was the character Dinah's mother). The Black Canary in Smallville had it. And finally in Arrow, Dinah Drake Black Canary and Black Siren (Earth 2 Laurel Lance) also had it naturally. Only Earth-1 Laurel didn't have it naturally and used a tech version instead (and the reason for that is she goes back to Season 1 Arrow when absolutely nobody had superpowers). In fact I can't think of a live action Black Canary who didn't have it besides Earth-1 Laurel? Sara Lance doesn't count, she was never Black Canary (White Canary in the comics was just a super martial artist, as is she).

Edited to add: rereading my rambling nonsense above, it occurs to me you may have misunderstood something I said about Jurnee Smollett, the actress, the real life person not being super powered (but she almost is). I was only talking about the actress in that sentence.

Really I'm amazed anyone read that far.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Vidmaster7 wrote:
Man not a single super power between the whole cast eh?

No, this is incorrect. Again if something I said mischaracterized the film, I apologize.

Since when do people actually pay attention to a dann thing I say??? Y'all should know better.

Also I think Harley has a low degree of mutation from her chemical bath.

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