Main Healer Witch


Advice


Context:
- New campaign starting, and I'm the one in charge of alllll the party healing.
- I want to do something more original than the usual Cleric/Paladin/Oracle but still retain the Channel Positive Energy features.... so, I looked at the remaining option and set my eye on a Hex Channeler With

Problem:
- Never f%!~ing played a witch before, so I could miss some important goodies. Need advices!

Current state of my draft build:
Race: Human, +2 int
Archetypes: Hex Channeler + Ley Line Guardian (I just prefer spontaneous casting)
Favored Class Bonus: 1 hex / 6 level (gnome favored bonus, gained through Racial Heritage)
Ability Scores: Int/Cha 18 Str 8 others 10
Patron: Healing (we will need those restoration spells)
Traits:
- one campaign trait (will see once the build is completed)
- one generic trait (need help on this one!)
Feats:
1- Human Bonus: Racial Heritage - Gnome (see favored class bonus)
1- Extra Hex
3- Selective Channeling (yay for anytime in-combat channel!)
5- Versatile Spontaneity (I'll just scribe all those "Remove xxx" spells in a spell book and make them part of my spontaneous list when I need them instead of wasting my precious known spells on them)
7- Quick Channel (yay, can channel AND cast a spell the same turn!)
9- Reactive Healing (can't heal someone if I'm dead)
11-
13-
15-
17-
19-
Hexes:
1- Extra Hex Bonus: Flight
6- Favored Class Bonus : Healing
12- Favored Class Bonus : Major Healing
18- Favored Class Bonus : Life Giver
Skills (7/lvl):
- Spellcraft*
- Use Magic Device*
- Perception
- Fly (because Flight Curse)
- Knowledge: Arcana* (always useful for Detect Magic)
- Knowledge: Nature* (roleplaying purpose)
- Knowledge: Planes* (roleplaying purpose)

Except for the archetypes, that I will not change, everything is debatable.
I lack a trait and a lot of feats... I do not know the witch enough to know what good feats she can use

Any ideas or good tips for me?


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Feats
* Healer's Hands - this allows you to save your Spells and Wands out for out of combat healing. This has the possibility of performing treat Deadly Wounds during Combat if the injured Creature can move out of direct harm's way or you use a Hex/Major Hex/Grand Hex to create a reprieve.
* Toughness - Witches are flimsy Arcane types with d6 Hit Dice, so this boost can be a goodness send.
* Reach (Metamagic) Spell - if you are Combat avoidant then this will enable you to extend the Range of your Cure Spells from Touch, making the most of your low-mid. Spell Slots.
* Skill Focus(Heal) - the old go-to for non-magical healing and enables Healer's Hands to come into play earlier.
* Eldritch Heritage (Celestial) - if you do take Skill Focus(Heal), then this is an option, although not one that is really Feat worthy unless it fits with your background/theme. As well as boosting your Healer's Hands success rate, it also opens up the Celestial Bloodline, gaining Heavenly Fire (Sp) for 1d4 H.P. healing, (with limitations). I only mention it because your primary Ability Score is now Charisma as a Witch(Leyline Guardian), granting you more uses.

Hexes
* Slumber (Su) - if you have a singular Target that is susceptible to Sleep Effects you can effectively stop a Combat mid-battle. This can either be by coup-de-grace, (preventing further damage to the Party), or by allowing you to heal others without worrying about attacks.
* Cauldron (Ex) - this enables you to make Potions from Witch 1, (bypassing the Caster Level 3 Prerequisite), plus early on the +4 Insight Bonus to Craft(Alchemy) helps.
* Scar (su) - if your Party members are okay with it, this scarring will allow you to use your Healing Hex from a greater Range.

Major Hexes
* Regenerative Sinew - I adore this one : by Witch 20 you gain Fast Healing 5 for 10 Rounds, (50 H.P.), or you can heal 4 Points of Ability Score Damage to two Ability Scores, or it can act as the Regenerate Spell ... It is very versatile, especially if you take Damage to your Spellcasting Ability Score.
* Restless Slumber (Su) - see Slumber, only it causes H.P. damage to the Target and they wake up with the Confused Condition, further aiding you.
* Witch's Bounty (Su) - this is more thematic as it really does not do a lot. However, if you have a lenient G.M. and do not want to use a Cantrip Slot for Stabilize, then you can always pop a Goodberry in someone's mouth.
* Witch's Brew (Ex) - enables you to pump out healing Potions faster.
* Witch's Charge (Su) - I would not recommend this unless you have a younger or vulnerable ward as part of your schtick.
* Major Ameliorating - it is thematic but personally I would not recommend this either, unless you are in a game where you often get opportunities to scope out your antagonists' abilities in advance.

Grand Hexes
* Death Interrupted (Su) - I know that you replace your Familiar with Ley Lines but taking the Familair Bond Feat makes this usually better than Life Giver (Su). You can save multiple Targets per day, (1/day each), and the process of restoring them to life does not reference Raise Dead/Resurrection/True Resurrection. They appear to be returned to life with limited H.P. but no Negative Levels!
* Curse of Nonviolence (Su) - not a healing Effect as such, again it is forcing the opponent not to harm you or your Party (until you can heal/all get ready). Situational to Combat style.
* Forced Reincarnation (Su) - technically it is a healing effect, yet this is much more for offence as it both kills and restores to life the Target, bestowing two Negative Levels and most likely changing their Race in the process ... *Evil grin* As a side-note, if you or your Party want a route to effective immortality, reincarnating as a Young Adult every few decades is a viable route.

Something to think about is how many Hexes/Major Hexes/Grand Hexes you want, as increasing the number of Hit Dice for your Channel Energy (Su) ability requires sacrificing (non-Extra Hex Feat) Hex "slots". If you use the Extra Hex Feat to gain them back you are then sacrificing Feats ... If you utilize Healer's Hands for multiple uses of Full-Round Treat Deadly Wounds per day, then the Heal Skill becomes much more important to you, as it provides mundane healing that reduces the burden of needing to advance your Channel Energy (Su).


The witch spell list is weak on defence. You have 10 Con, 10 Dex, a d6 hit die, your favored class bonus is spent elsewhere... with ~20 hp and ~AC 14 at level 5, for example, you're in serious danger of being taken out in 1 round between your actions. Self-healing has limits. If you could drop Cha to 16 that'd give you some points to put in Dex and/or Con to mitigate that weakness.

Most offensive witch spells have saving throws. You're probably going to want persistent spell or similar eventually.

The healing hexes are probably overkill between spells, channeling and a few magic items. Having slumber will save you hassles.


I would suggest looking at the Hedge Witch archetype, it will let you spontaneously cast healing spells w/o learning them. If you are going the eldritch heritage route, you might also consider the solar bloodline. It gives you low light vision and a high levels it effectively gives you a lay on hands type ability and another channel energy ability.


Drop the racial heritage feat. As a spontaneous caster your spells known are way more important than hexes. An extra spell known per level is much better than a hex every 6 levels. 17 spells known is going to be more valuable than 3 hexes. Use the feat extra hexes instead. Use the first 3 levels of favored class bonus for HP to give you a little protection early when it is most valuable.


I recommend against the hex channeler. It is not worth the number of hexes and feats it eats up to be useful.

I'm not crazy about the ley line guardian either, but you sound pretty set on that, and it does give you innate spontaneous cures. So, my suggestion would be to rely on cure light at low level. Take healing hex and prehensile hair at level 1, with the extra hex feat. Hopefully, your GM will be cool with you using the hair to deliver your touches at a 10 foot reach. At level 3 or 5, you will want to grab the reach spell metamagic, to deliver your cures from a distance.

And, I'll agree that regenerative sinew is too good to not take. I might would even take it before greater healing hex as your first greater hex.

Edit: I just noticed the ley line guardian replaces your first hex, so you can’t take extra hex at level 1. And that same issue may keep you from taking the FCB at level 1 as well, depending on how your DM rules those to work.


I don't see the need for infight healing at all. Seriously, using an offensive action, or casting a buff, debuff, or battlefield controll spell, prevents more damage than the heal action would have healed.
E.g. if you slumber a hard to reach target, you've effectivly "healed" every point of damage your target would have done during that fight.
Channel is one of the few useful methods of infight healing, so that's OK, but I would strongly advice against cure spells or the healing hexes.

Outfight healing should be done by wands or the new Healer's Hands feat (possibly in combination with the skill unlock feat).

Some other things: 1) Using your FCB to gain a single additional hex at 12th level doesn't feel worth it.
2) Versatile Spontaneity is only one spell/day.
3) Your patron spells are added to you spells known, anyway.
4) The healing hexes are crap.

What trait(s), hexes and feats to take depends on what you want your character to do (without disrupting the game). A "normal" Witch is focussed on offensive hexes: Mediator grants +1 Slumber DC, Accursed Hex and Split Hex improve your hexes, Improved Initiative helps disabling the enemies before they can do somethign nasty. Most of your feat's will probably end up being Extra Hex, though - if you want to keep full channel progression, you don't gain any hexes from level ups.


The one time I played a healer-Witch, I mixed it with Arcane Archer to deliver healing spells from downtown. Was also pretty funny when the Lich caught a Heal arrow to the face.


yukongil wrote:
The one time I played a healer-Witch, I mixed it with Arcane Archer to deliver healing spells from downtown. Was also pretty funny when the Lich caught a Heal arrow to the face.

very cool, what healing spells were you using? When I look at arcane archer I see that imbue arrow only works with area effect spells.


Ok I played a healer witch. Few years back so obviously some options came in. But she went to 17 so I can call myself an expert I guess.

1. Healing patron. Witches can heal wounds but not some other options. This is a must for the class.

2. Hedge witch. Now you can heal when you want and not memorize heals. This really frees up your options to be able to heal without choosing healing. The level 8 one I had a GM call that if they failed and I took the damage they wouldn't count as failed if you needed 2 in a row. A minor benefit but it may come up.

3. Heal hex at 1. Flight later. You chose an archtyprvthat doesn't give hex at 1 so you can't take extra hex at 1. That's lame. Heal hex at 1 gives scaling healing for everyone. It'll save thousands, and when used with scar hex, gives heal at ranged. Could save lives.

4. I really liked Cackle and Fortune hex. More than misfortune. I'd rather see my friends gaily about not failing a save, or making a nat 20 crit actually confirm than anything else.

5. Flight hex is great.... later on. You'll find prehensile hair to be better right away. I used both and would carry the group around.

6. Your ac will suck. Like... so bad. Mage armour is your only chance to have ac? Another reason I liked the hair. Touch friends at range.

7. Split hex when you can. Maybe get ward hex before this and trade it out when ward hex becomes less useful. I personally loved ward hex with scar hex as it says you know when its dropped. So it was a great way to know instantly if someone was hurt, and heal at a long range.


LordKailas wrote:
yukongil wrote:
The one time I played a healer-Witch, I mixed it with Arcane Archer to deliver healing spells from downtown. Was also pretty funny when the Lich caught a Heal arrow to the face.
very cool, what healing spells were you using? When I look at arcane archer I see that imbue arrow only works with area effect spells.

selective reading for the win! Actually I think my GM just let me use whatever spells (which seems fine to me, this was just after the Witch came out, so really this just put it in line with the ranged Magus archetype that came out later), or maybe we allowed the Mass Cure spells, it's been awhile and we only played like two games, so the exact details are fuzzy, but I do remember hitting a lich in the face with a Heal arrow!


Im playing a "healer" witch right now in a ROTL game, doing fine for now.
I choosed to go stright witch, no archetypes. The hex channeler will loose to many hexes for a so-so ability and a witch without her hexes is weak.
Remember that if you have sacrifice to much to be a healbot you are doing something wrong, the point of the witch is to have the hexes and mix of arcane and divine spellcasting.
Take the scar and healing hex to heal from range, then slumber missfortune and evil eye to have something to do in combat without wasting spell slots and for the heal just take the healing patron, prepare healing/remove x spells and have some scrolls and a wand of cure light wounds.
Last, as the condition remover/ out of combat healer you NEED to stay alive, far from danger and healty. Flight hex helps you keeping away from non-fliers enemies. Toughness, a good con score or even feats that boost your saves will help.

The feats that i take so far are
Iron will
Improved iron will (as i said earlier you need to make your save in order to remove the conditions of the others, you cannot aford to fail that save often).
Extra hex
Toughness (you need to be alive in order to support your party).


Get Reach Spell so you can make your Touch range Cure spells into Close range (25ft +5ft/2lvls). This also improves your survivability when delivering touch spells like Touch of Idiocy to enemies.


Alternatively make a Witch with a familiar, cast invisibility on said familiar. Now the familiar can deliver all of your healing using its movement while you continue to use your hexes offensively. Just watch out for opponents that see invis.


BENSLAYER wrote:
(...)

That's an amazing answer, full a very good points.

There are here a lot of possible and interesting choices, especialy things link Healer's Hands (free cure), Scar and Regenerative Sinew

I'm going to ponder on each element a little while to see what I will pick.

avr wrote:
The witch spell list is weak on defence. You have 10 Con, 10 Dex, a d6 hit die, your favored class bonus is spent elsewhere... with ~20 hp and ~AC 14 at level 5, for example, you're in serious danger of being taken out in 1 round between your actions. Self-healing has limits. If you could drop Cha to 16 that'd give you some points to put in Dex and/or Con to mitigate that weakness.

The weakness of the witch's defense is truly an important point I didn't spot right on.

However I do not think that grabbing a +1 dex or con modifier is the solution to that problem, as such a low bonus will not make any true difference in combat after a few levels.

For me, I should rather work on having more ranged healing options, like taking Scar or Prehensile Hair.

LordKailas wrote:
I would suggest looking at the Hedge Witch archetype, it will let you spontaneously cast healing spells w/o learning them.

I HATE prepared spells, that's why I took Ley Line Guardian.

I would rather NEVER play a witch of my whole like that playing it without an archetype switching its casting mode to "spontaneous"

That's just a matter of tastes, and not something relevant to efficiency, and that's why it's not a negociable thing in the build.

Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Drop the racial heritage feat. As a spontaneous caster your spells known are way more important than hexes. An extra spell known per level is much better than a hex every 6 levels.

There is no race providing extra spells known to a witch who doesn't use her familiar to store spells, so I have no such option available.

Melkiador wrote:
I recommend against the hex channeler. It is not worth the number of hexes and feats it eats up to be useful.

For many reasons, any healer without Channeling is actualy in my eye a BAD healer. I'll explain those reasons a little further in my answer to Derklord if you care... but keep in mind that's not a negociable point for me.

Derklord wrote:

I don't see the need for infight healing at all. Seriously, using an offensive action, or casting a buff, debuff, or battlefield controll spell, prevents more damage than the heal action would have healed.

E.g. if you slumber a hard to reach target, you've effectivly "healed" every point of damage your target would have done during that fight.

The main problem with that thought is a problem of reliability.

Debuffs and controls are nice and indeed powerful, but they are also luck-dependant.
As long that luck is at your side, a good debuff/control is going indeed to do more than a heal. But when luck is at the side of NPC, in-combat heal is what save people.

For exemple, if at one round a character get damaged, it becomes exposed to what players of my table call an "Obliteration Round" i.e. a stroke of luck on a strong monter that make his target goes straight from "I'm wounded but still have more than 50% total hp" to "Dead" status without stoping by the "Dying" or "Disabled" one
In-combat healing prevent this by allowing your to keep your fellow teamates at an amount of hp high enough at each round that you fill confident that even a stroke of bad luck won't provoke such an "Obliteration Round"

Quote:
Channel is one of the few useful methods of infight healing, so that's OK, but I would strongly advice against cure spells or the healing hexes.

I almost never recommand anyone trying to use Cure Wound spells during a fight until they get the "mass" version, simply because you shouldn't get that close to your main tank during a fight... Such a thing expose you to 5-foot-step and reach full-attacks, as well as make you more easy to caught in an area-of-effect

That's why Channel Positive Energy is actually the BEST healing power of the whole game: It's a close range (30ft) group healing that you can use without provoking AoO and which is available from levels 1-2.

If you closely look at this from this perspective, having Channel Energy is actualy like to recieve "Cure Light Wounds, Mass" as a level 1 spell, except that the amount of healing it produce will stay relevant even at level 20, which makes this ability totaly OP

And this in-combat healing bears importance for the reason I mentioned above, to me, any healer without this ability is a bad main healer (but can be a wonderful debuffer and a good secondary healer)

Quote:

1) Using your FCB to gain a single additional hex at 12th level doesn't feel worth it.

2) Versatile Spontaneity is only one spell/day.

1) That FCB adds 3 additional hexes.

2) Yes Versatile Spontaneity is one spell/day, however, it still great for any out-combat spell of rarely use: The Ley Line Guardian can write all those spells into a spell book and only get them in the rare cases they truly need them, without wasting her precious spell known.
Lost in a Maze? Camp a bit, open the spellbook, make Find the Path part of your spontaneous spells.
Someone sick? Camp a bit, open the spell book, make Remove Disease paart of your spontaneous spells.
Need to speak to a foreigner leader? Camp a bit, open the spell book, make Tongues part of your spontaneous spells
An so on...

Ryze Kuja wrote:
Get Reach Spell so you can make your Touch range Cure spells into Close range (25ft +5ft/2lvls).

But spontaneous casters get a nasty penality on metamagic use, so I'm reluctant to use this... plus with Scar and Channel Energy, I'm pretty sure I have enough in-combat ranged healing for a class that feature so many control spells she can use to actualy prevent damage.


Forgot one answer:

Cavall wrote:
3. Heal hex at 1. Flight later. You chose an archtyprvthat doesn't give hex at 1 so you can't take extra hex at 1. That's lame. Heal hex at 1 gives scaling healing for everyone. It'll save thousands, and when used with scar hex, gives heal at ranged. Could save lives.

Fair point, Heal is a priority compared to Flight that doesn't become great before level 5.

I can take Extra Hex at level 1, as what the archetype currently remove is the hex I'm gaining at level 1, and not the hex class feature itself.
If the archetype did remove the hex class feature, I would not be able to use hexes at all ;)

------

Mixing all those answers, and putting a stronger emphasis on range healing, I'm going to rework the feat list like this:

1- Human Bonus: Racial Heritage
1- Extra Hex: Healing
3- Extra Hex: Scar (make healing hexes work from 1 miles away)
5- Selective Channeling
6- FCB: Flight
7- Spontaneous Versatility
9- Quick Channeling
11- Extra Hex - Witch's Charge (make all cure wounds spells work from 30ft on the main tank)
12- FCB: Regenerative Sinnew
13- Extra Hex - Major Healing
15- Reactive Healing
17-
18- FCB: Life Giver
19-

Prehensile Hair is a nice hex, but making Cure Wound spells at 10ft instead of 5ft is not changing the fact you need to get too close if you ever need to heal the frontliners, IMHO.
So I do prefer Witch's Charge for this use, even if it only works on one of the team member.

I still don't have a clue which trait I could take.
Reactionary would be an acceptable choice.


http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qt8

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qt8 wrote:

If you have an archetype or other rules element that replaces part of a scaling class feature, or delays when you get that class feature, you do not have that class feature until you actually gain that class feature.

...
Example: If you have a witch archetype that replaces your hex at level 1 (but not later hexes, major hexes, or grand hexes), you don't gain your first hex ability until witch level 2, which means you don't have the hex class feature until you reach witch level 2. Anything with "hex" or "hex class feature" as a prerequisite is unavailable to you until level 2.

To reiterate: You can't take extra hex at level 1! You don't qualify for the feat at that level, because you traded away your first level hex, with the ley line guardian. You arguably can't take the FCB for getting a new hex until you have hexes either. And because hex channeler trades away your level 2 hex, you don't actually have hexes until level 4. And it's unclear if you still qualify at level 4, if you use that hex to advance your channeling, but I would suspect that you do not.

I have to wonder why you want to play a witch at all. You don't like the spell casting, and you are trading out most of your hexes. And your archetypes even remove your familiar. You should just play a spirit guide healing oracle. You'll have better spell variety and most of the same spell selection. And important to you, you'll have great channels, without needing to sacrifice much of anything.


Moonheart wrote:
But spontaneous casters get a nasty penality on metamagic use, so I'm reluctant to use this

Make sure you aren't confusing its full round action with a 1 round spell. It's mostly just losing your move action, which isn't usually that bad. You still have 5 foot steps. Spontaneous spell casters are generally better at metamagic than prepared, since they can use it when needed.


Melkiador wrote:

-FAQ links and quotes-

To reiterate: You can't take extra hex at level 1!

Seems you're right... *sigh* This is not making things simplier, but well..

Quote:
I have to wonder why you want to play a witch at all. You don't like the spell casting, and you are trading out most of your hexes. And your archetypes even remove your familiar. You should just play a spirit guide healing oracle.

For a change. We've seen too many clerics and oracles already in the campaigns we played.

Quote:
Make sure you aren't confusing its full round action with a 1 round spell. It's mostly just losing your move action, which isn't usually that bad. You still have 5 foot steps.

Losing the move action -is- a big penalty.

Positioning is an important point to stay alive in pathfinder.


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Moonheart wrote:
For a change. We've seen too many clerics and oracles already in the campaigns we played.

But if you really think about it, is it a change? You have traded away so much of the witch that it comes closer to resembling an oracle than a witch. A real change would be trying to take on the challenge of being the healer without relying on the channels.


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I'd still reccomend the hedge witch archetype. You'll get your heals as spontaneous and hexes at level 1. It's what you want and trades little away.

And you're right with scar and heal hex? You're fine you don't need reach metamagics. Scar is one of the best hexes for people that take a large amount of hexes.


Moonheart wrote:

The weakness of the witch's defense is truly an important point I didn't spot right on.

However I do not think that grabbing a +1 dex or con modifier is the solution to that problem, as such a low bonus will not make any true difference in combat after a few levels.

For me, I should rather work on having more ranged healing options, like taking Scar or Prehensile Hair.

Cha 18 to 16 saves 7 points which would allow Con 14 and Dex 12 perhaps. The +1 Dex mod doesn't add much to any one stat (though it is a minor boost to many things), but the +2 Con mod is about +50% to your hit points. And a +2 to the save to not be staggered if you ever use conduit surge.

This is entirely independent of your ranged healing options. It's not either/or.


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Meirril wrote:
Alternatively make a Witch with a familiar, cast invisibility on said familiar. Now the familiar can deliver all of your healing using its movement while you continue to use your hexes offensively. Just watch out for opponents that see invis.

I use a thrush in our Kingmaker campaign and he just zips around blasting undead and keeping the barbarian alive.


Melkiador wrote:
But if you really think about it, is it a change? You have traded away so much of the witch that it comes closer to resembling an oracle than a witch.

It's obvious any competent healer is always going to ressemble gameplay-wise for a good part to another healer, because decent healing sources are only a few in the game: channel, healing spells and a tad of heal skill.

But at least roleplay wise, the witch is a completly different animal: she's a kind of outcast, a healer not tied to the divine, but more mysterious and less-understood forces. She has a different view on the world and a different base for relationship with the different social categories of PC and NPC.

People of this forum tend to only think about gameplay mechanics and forget that the best part of playing Pathfinder is character interpretation... and I never played a witch before, so, yes, it's going to be a welcomed change.

Quote:
A real change would be trying to take on the challenge of being the healer without relying on the channels.

But that's a challenge that the OTHER players are the first to pay if you fail.

And since I take seriously the goal to prevent the other to need to reroll another PC, I'm not wanting to take up that challenge.

Cavall wrote:
I'd still reccomend the hedge witch archetype. You'll get your heals as spontaneous and hexes at level 1. It's what you want and trades little away.

That's still a no, and I already explained why above.

Thunderlord wrote:
Meirril wrote:
Alternatively make a Witch with a familiar, cast invisibility on said familiar. Now the familiar can deliver all of your healing using its movement while you continue to use your hexes offensively. Just watch out for opponents that see invis.
I use a thrush in our Kingmaker campaign and he just zips around blasting undead and keeping the barbarian alive.

Then your DM is lenient.

1- Using an invisible familiar to actualy deliever heals create a penalty to its stealth score so high that the invisibility actualy provide no effet to prevent foes to notice its presence.
2- Then, any creature with at least 8 intelligence should understand that something invisible is healing his opponent from close range and attempt to strike it to stop his opponent to have his wounds closed each round.
3- Due to having a low AC score, it's unlikely that the trush is going to avoid the blow from a decent opponent, except for the 50% concealment miss chance of invisibility.

So if you play with a DM playing ALL the rules and also playing opponents that actualy aren't bots who don't use their brain, you trush should get killed rather fast using this method more than once in a while.

That's not even accounting the problem of AoE effects.

The DM of my table is actualy not lenient. He truly plays the opponents are intelligent beings if they have enough intelligence score... so that kind of thing if just not be viable with him.


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all the movement penalties are negated by the invisibility effect and then some, then you take into account the Thrush's size, dex and skill modifier (+14 for just the base creature, then should it actually take ranks in Stealth, by the time it can deliver a touch spell, it should have a +20 to stealth checks), it's going to easily evade most any attempt to see it. And then it still has a 50% miss chance if it is somehow spotted. For AoE, it starts with Improved Evasion. Unless you DM just cheats, it's a perfectly viable tactic with a high rate of success


I think your healing witch build is fine, since that's what you want to do. Since you can't get Extra Hex at level 1, grab the Healing Hex at level 2, Scar with Extra Hex at level 3, and then other Hexes you want as you can from there. Since you're focusing so heavily on channeling, if you know you'll be facing a lot of outsiders, Alignment Channel might not be bad to pick up so you can use the channels offensively against them. If you're using your channels offensively in general, Improved Channel or Extra Channel could be helpful.

Trait-wise, this might fit with your build:

Blessed Touch:

Source Champions of Purity pg. 7
You may have been raised in a devout family, studied the divine in a formal church environment, or even learned how to combine traditional healing techniques with those of divine casters. In so doing, you have focused yourself into being the perfect vessel for your deity. Divine power flows through you like a mountain stream, making your healing touch more potent than that of others. You heal 1 additional point of damage when using lay on hands, channeling energy, or casting a cure spell.

An extra +1 with all healing spells and channels will help you with filling your desired role - it's up to you if you like the flavor or not.

As another alternative:

Sacred Conduit:

Source Ultimate Campaign pg. 55, Second Darkness Player's Guide pg. 12, Advanced Player's Guide pg. 1
Your birth was particularly painful and difficult for your mother, who needed potent divine magic to ensure that you survived (your mother may or may not have survived). In any event, that magic infused you from an early age, and you now channel divine energy with greater ease than most. Whenever you channel energy, you gain a +1 trait bonus to the save DC of your channeled energy.

If you think you'll use channels offensively, bumping the DC might help, as well. Both of those are Faith traits.


The reason people are going pure mechanics to help is because that is generally the purpose of the advice forum.

I agree on dropping charisma. For a holy vindicator 16 would still be plenty on top of your healing spells. For what you lose there, you gain a healthy cushion for when things backfire.

Anyways, if someone else hasn't mentioned it, I recommend UMD ranks for those situational spells you can't waste spells known on.

I get you don't like prepared casting, but hedge witch can be very versatile. I made one and leave spell slots open to prepare on demand to adapt.

Generally people here don't like in combat healing and prefer damage mitigation with debuffs. Emergencies are emergencies, but it's common to save healing (easy with spontaneous casting) to patch up after fights.

We just want to provide as many options as possible. Making a healer witch is a fun challenge, and it's good you found a unique path to it. It looks like you have what you need and are happy with it, so have fun! Should be a solid build.


Oh! Don't want to repeat someone else, but I'm too lazy to look through everything.

You should get haramaki armor. It only gives +1 armor, but there is no spell failure chance and cab be enchanted like regular armor. Combine with a mithral buckler, and you can cheaply get AC to an acceptable level for a support caster.


Phntm888 wrote:
I think your healing witch build is fine, since that's what you want to do. Since you can't get Extra Hex at level 1, grab the Healing Hex at level 2, Scar with Extra Hex at level 3, and then other Hexes you want as you can from there.

He can’t take extra hex until he gets a hex. And that won’t be until level 4, assuming that he doesn’t use a hex to advance his channeling. So at level 5 he could have a 1d6 channel and a couple of hexes. Or a 2d6 channel and no hexes. Either option sounds pretty dismal.


Something you might want to consider is playing a Life Spirit shaman with the Witch Doctor archetype. While it is a prepared caster, RP wise it seems to be what you're looking for and you'll have hexes at 2nd level. Wandering Spirit gives some flexibility and spirit magic provides some limited spontaneous casting. Most importantly it will give you 2 separate pools of channel energy.


Moonheart wrote:


It's obvious any competent healer is always going to ressemble gameplay-wise for a good part to another healer, because decent healing sources are only a few in the game: channel, healing spells and a tad of heal skill.

But at least roleplay wise, the witch is a completly different animal: she's a kind of outcast, a healer not tied to the divine, but more mysterious and less-understood forces. She has a different view on the world and a different base for relationship with the different social categories of PC and NPC.

People of this forum tend to only think about gameplay mechanics and forget that the best part of playing Pathfinder is character interpretation... and I never played a witch before, so, yes, it's going to be a welcomed change.

But that's a challenge that the OTHER players are the first to pay if you fail.
And since I take seriously the goal to prevent the other to need to reroll another PC, I'm not wanting to take up that challenge.

That's still a no, and I already explained why above.

Then your DM is lenient.

1- Using an invisible familiar to actualy deliever heals create a penalty...

No need to be defensive and shoot everyone's advice down. If you want advice, you're in the right place but if you're just posting a build and telling everyone why they're wrong, try anywhere else. In my case, my familiar isn't even invisible so I have room to improve.


@Thunderlord: Discussing ideas is not "shooting" advices down.

I simply see several potential problems in some advices, and wish to truly understand how the author deal with those problems, because I'm not all-knowing and could have missed several informations or tricks that make my worries irrelevant...

There is no way however to harvest that additional info without confronting the authors with the said potential problems.
Note that if I had found those ideas stupid, I would not even lose time to answer them... but they are interesting, so yes, I argue.

-----------

MageHunter wrote:
The reason people are going pure mechanics to help is because that is generally the purpose of the advice forum.

Yes, I know. But that doesn't make we must completly forget the existence of roleplay when giving advices.

Quote:
Anyways, if someone else hasn't mentioned it, I recommend UMD ranks for those situational spells you can't waste spells known on.

Yes, I should raise that skill.

Quote:
I get you don't like prepared casting, but hedge witch can be very versatile. I made one and leave spell slots open to prepare on demand to adapt.

Ley Line Guardian with Spontaneous Versatility is almost as versatile outside of combat, and much more versatile in combat, imho.

Melkiador wrote:
He can’t take extra hex until he gets a hex. And that won’t be until level 4, assuming that he doesn’t use a hex to advance his channeling. So at level 5 he could have a 1d6 channel and a couple of hexes. Or a 2d6 channel and no hexes. Either option sounds pretty dismal.

Low levels are disappointing now I see this FAQ, yes.

However, in the long run, the Hex Channeler is actualy better at healing (note I just talk of healing here, I don't say its better overall) than a witch using healing hexes.

Each 1d6 of channeling is actualy equivalent to 24.5 hp of group healing per day:
- Healing Hex only does 9.5 per day, which is stricly inferior
- Major Healing Hex needs you to be level > 11 to do more than 24.5 per day, but still need you to get close unless you have another hex, and spend several action to deliever all its potential, so overall 1d6 of channeling is still a better choice

Lifegiver is something situational that can be handled with spells... so only Regenerative Sinew is actualy better than an extra 1d6 of channeling.

This should lead to a logical choice to use ALL the normal and gnome FCB hex grants for an extra 1d6 channel except for the level 10 one, which will be Regenerative Sinnew
Then, by level 10, I should have taken every Channeling Feat I need, so I could fit Extra Hex to take utility or debuff hexes if I want some.

So... a possible alternative route could be:
1- Human Bonus: Racial Heritage
1- Healer's Hands
3- Selective Channeling
5- Spontaneous Versatility
7- Quick Channeling
9- Reactive Healing
11- Extra Hex
13- Extra Hex
15- Extra Hex
17- Extra Hex
19- Extra Hex
?

With the gnome FCB (that the archetype does not prevent to be turned into d6), the progression of the channel would be:
2- 1d6
4- 2d6
6- 4d6
12- 6d6
14- 7d6
16- 8d6
18- 10d6
20- 11d6
There is a huge gap between level 6 and 12, but that's because of Regenerative Sinew is earned so it's fine imho.

The bad point would be to have Hexes very late in the progression, the good point is the healing potency is at its peak for a witch.


Channel is bad for combat unless you also get selective channel. You don't want to help your enemies.

Condition removal can be done several ways.

Patrons:
Devotion gives mass healing
Endurance gives greater restoration
Healing gives lesser restoration, remove disease, restoration, greater restoration, resurrection
Mercy gives restoration, remove curse, true resurrection

Spells:
1st: remove sickness
2nd: delay poison
3rd: accept affliction, remove blindness/deafness, remove curse, remove disease
4th: neutralize poison
5th: reincarnate
6th: raise dead, stone to flesh
7th: heal, temporary resurrection
8th: resurrection

Magic items:
Extraction Scarificator: [2500 gp] lesser restoration 1/day
Healer's Satchel, Specialized: [3000 gp] heal check: help with poison & disease, long term care: restore 1 point drain up to 5 people/day

Feat:
heal skill unlock: 5 ranks or more can heal some ability damage

Skill:
umd: wands and staves for additional spells

You don't need all those restoration spells on your list. You can use your generic trait to make UMD an int skill, I think. Even without that, it is easy to pump UMD to automatic for a wand or staff. [The circlet of persuasion is your friend.]

Witches are great debuffers. The Evil Eye hex really helps here. Especially on the BBEG.

Witches are also up close types. Not front line, but close. You will get beat up.

Lastly, the best way to get better is not to get worse. You will not do much melee damage, so prioritize saves, spells, stats, and AC over weapons. Another aid is to operate from concealment to make you harder to hit with weapons and spells. Fog Cloud + Goz Mask = you see and they don't. There are other combos available that do the same.

/cevah


Sorry to chime in so late but your build may be illegal.

Paizo Employee ***** John Compton Developer Feb 20, 2014, 11:14 pm | FLAG | LIST | FAQ | REPLY
23 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 107 people marked this as a favorite. +
John Compton Avatar
Favored Class Bonus for Half-Elves and Half-Orcs
For the purpose of qualifying for favored class bonuses, half-elves are also treated as both elves and humans, and half-orcs are also treated as humans (but not orcs)—a byproduct of their respective elf blood and orc blood racial traits. Only characters that have the elf blood or orc blood racial trait count as a member of another race for this purpose.

Related Point: Can I apply the aasimar or elf oracle's favored class bonus to a revelation I do not yet have? Can I do so for the aasimar bard’s favored class bonus?
No, when choosing which class feature’s effective level to increase, you can only select a feature that you already have. For example, an aasimar flame oracle cannot choose to improve the wings of fire revelation with her favored class bonus until she actually gains the revelation at 7th level or beyond; she could not start augmenting it at 1st level.

This isn’t actually a new rule. It’s just a clarification that I confirmed with the design team because it seemed that some folks were assuming otherwise.

That post seems to say that you can't apply a FCB to a feature until you have that feature. So you can't begin to use the gnome FCB to work toward a hex until you actually have a hex. That would mean 4th level at the earliest for this build combination with the first bonus coming at 10th level.


Yeah. The FCB is probably not an option until you actually have a hex, though that is debatable, as it isn’t incrementing a bonus. But more importantly, it was nerfed in a later edition.

Quote:
Gnome (Advanced Race Guide pg. 1 (Amazon)): The witch gains 1/6 of a new witch hex.


You should consider Imp Initiative for one of your lvl 1 feats. Going first is huge for both personal and group survivability. If someone is in trouble from last round, you can aid them sooner, and if noone is in trouble, you can debuff or delay your action, or ready an action to deal with an immediate threat.

Also, get heighten spell around lvl 5-9 so your lvl 1 and 2 debuffs can scale well. I particularly like using heightened beguiling gift spells and keeping a small collection of cursed items to hand to enemies. Hand the BBEG a necklace of strangulation and pull out the lawn chair and popcorn :)

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