Need help on my vampiric vigilante


Advice


Going the route of noble son for the social aspect and vampiric assassin for the stalker aspect. What I am struggling with very much is whether to go straight vigilante or do a lv 1 dip into something else?

Not a light weapon user so rogue/ninja probably not great. Only 1 level dip so ninja wouldnt be a good option anyway. But the SA wouldnt hurt. 0 BAB would suck since Vig starts of 0 BAB.

Possibly Slayer for full BAB + studied target but is it worth a level dip? Ranger for favored enemy human? Barbarian isnt a fit.

Fighter doesnt do a whole lot except BAB + 1 free feat and has crap for skills. For that, can go Vampire Hunter and get the same with better skills.

Definitely a stealth character. Strength over finesse but has decent dex too.

Or do you think it would be wise to just go straight Vigilante?


A second level in Ninja would not impact your BAB and would give you a ki pool and some nice options. Secondly, nothing in the Core Rogue and Ninja actually focus on Dex more than Str. In a sense, the good Reflex save makes going Str-based more attractive since that's one less Dex-based thing to worry about.


Well, why do you consider a dip? Are you lacking something specific?
If all you're after is more bonuses to hit, then I'd say Mutagenic Mauler brawler before Slayer.
Full BAB, two good saves, and the Mutagen ability for +4 to Str and +2 Natural armor bonus.

(I got inspired by your concept, so I threw together something.)

Very Vampiric Vigilante, level 4 (Not PFS legal):

Optimal Races: Human, Dhampir or Half-Orc. If Half-Orc, choose the Toothy alternate Racial Trait.

Brawler (Mutagenic Mauler) 2 / Vigilante 2

Feats:
Brawler
1. Racial Heritage: Dhampir, Unusual Origin, IUS (B)
2. Weapon Focus (B)

Vigilante
3. Feral Combat Training (Bite)
4.

Social Talent:
Guise of Unlife

Vigilante Talent:
Racial Paragon

Traits:
Whatever

Class Abilities:
Dual identity, Seamless guise, Vigilante specialization
Brawler’s cunning, Martial training, Mutagen, Unarmed strike
Bonus combat feat, Brawler’s flurry

Tactic:
Use Racial Paragon to choose the Dhampir feat Blood Drinker as a move action at the start of combat.
Choose one humanoid subtype you're currently fighting.
You can flurry with your Bite attack, and each hit heals you while dealing 2 point of constitution damage to your target.

You'll not add 1.5 Str to dmg with your bite attacks when flurrying, but Power Attack would still apply dmg as if you're attacking with a two-handed weapon. If you've taken the Stalker specialization, then I'd recommend against Power Attack as you want your precision damage to hit.

The Mutagen ability from the brawler levels and the Guise of Unlife social talent will allow you to transform into something horrible, while detecting as a vampire to all who see you. Neither of these choices are needed, but I feel they fit the flavor.

If you want to be dex-based, then I'd recommend to take the Adopted->Tusked traits and take Weapon Finesse instead of Unusual Origin. You'll have to be human then, though. Another choice is to go vanilla Brawler and pick up Weapon Finesse with Martial Flexibility.

****


Or, just take the Teisatsu Vigilante archetype for that "Ninja" feel, and then branch out to Slayer or Unchained Monk (Or Brawler, or whatever) as needed?


All good stuff. Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

A couple of things. We have an alchemist in the group so I am very careful not to step on toes there.

The ninja dip if you think about it can be accessed by the Teisatsu archetype but at cost of Vigilante feats. Basically getting Vanishing trick would cost two Vig feats. Not sure if that is worth it (one for the archetype and another for Ninja trick).

This is the way my GM and I have worked out vampire:

Vampire is way too OP by itself. One bite and all of a sudden you have all these crazy bonuses. So we have broken the abilities and attributes down into disciplines and clan bloodlines like the old World of Darkness vamps. You have to spend 1 general level feat to gain feat:Vampire, then additional general level feats (meaning class bonus feats do not apply) to gain vamp abilities.

So long story short, the general level feats are gone so the Vigilante talents are a premium. So burning 2 feats for Vanishing trick may not be such a good use.

Also keep in mind Vamp being undead, removes MOST fort save effects so that is probably not such a great priority to gain.

The character is extremely charismatic, noble and charming when in his social form. The vigilante form is a monster.


How buffing-friendly is the alchemist, and how often do they use their mutagen? Since a mutagen-using class can use another's drink, you might get longer duration or better bonuses by dipping and then using the alchemist as your source.


Pretty much alchemist is out. Just does not work with the concept in my opinion. And I also dont want to step on the alchemist's toes either.

Any other suggestions for a level 1 dip that would be better than advancing the Vigilante class?


Really depends on what you're aiming to achieve with your build, what level you are/will be, what the vampire feats give you, what vigilante talents you have/will have, etc.

I'd be a lot easier to help you with some more information.


The character is level 2. I believe he can gain the basic vampire at lv 3 if he spends the feat (again this just makes him undead, not have the abilities and powers which come with feat expenditures). Take the vanpire abilities and powers and pretty much break them up into feats rather than automatically obtained.

So I am trying to decide whether to go a lv 1 dip in some other class or stick full out Stalker Vigilante.

Not sure how high the game will go. I assume pretty high. It is a homebrewed campaign world.


So to clarify:

You have no particular build in mind.

You do basically not have any general feats.

You don't know what exactly the vampire feats will give you at what levels?

You are a Stalker Vigilante.

You are strength-based.

And you're uncertain if you should take a dip into another class or stay full Vigilante.

****

We're really lacking information to give you sound advice.
So far, I have no clue what your combat style is and have no idea what vigilante talents you'll take. Are you asking for a build?


Not really. I am going Stalker Vigilante throughout. My only thought is whether or not to take a lv 1 dip into something else that may benefit the character more than another level in Vigilante.

Being Stalker Vig, he is stealthy and roguish. Has high strength (19) over dex (16) (decent dex tho) and uses either a bastard sword 2h or Butchering Axe (if I can part with burning a feat for it).

The concept is the refined social face of the group in Social Vigilante form. Vigilante will take care of that. In Stalker form, he is more roguish with SAs and skill monkeyed.

I couldnt see rogue or ninja being beneficial as the one level dip in either of those would only benefit a finesse build.

Urban Ranger could be nice with favored enemy human for the +2/+2 and the full BAB but not sure if that is worth deviating from the Vigilante class.

Going full Vig just gets faster access to the Vig talents and the SA damage.

I dont see the guy doing alchemy. Dark Stalker ideaology.


Okay, so if my character sheet has more than two classes listed, it's always because I'm trying to get a specific build online as soon as possible.

If you have no such build in mind, there's really no need to multiclass. Vigilante has many talents that provide extra benefits while higher level, so it's probably not worth to dip if you don't need it.

****

That said, the most bang for your buck if you're simply looking for better to-hit chances are:

1. Bloodrager (will probably need the Extra Rage feat):
Good Con saves.
Rage ability (+4 Strength, +2 Con/Will save, -2 penalty to AC), +10 Movement, and either Bloodline Ability or Familiar
I'd also check out the Id rager archetype, specifically the Dedication emotional focus. You'd switch out the Bloodline ability (or familiar) for Iron Will, Skill Focus (Diplomacy or Sense Motive), and more to-hit/damage against the last opponent who hit you.

Also, you can now use several wands without UMD as they're on your class list.

2. Brawler (Vanilla or Mutagenic Mauler)
Good Con and Ref saves.
Improved Unarmed Strike, Brawler's Cunning and either Martial Flexibility or Mutagen.
You can take the Dedicated Adversary feat with Martial Flexibility at the start of combat, giving you +2 A/D for one minute against the type of opponents you're fighting.
The Mutagen ability is comparable, but requires a Standard action to activate (instead of a move action) while giving you +2 to AC.

But since you're gonna be undead, bloodrager is a poor choice since Rage are all morale bonuses. I'd go Brawler and Martial Flexibility for an easy +2 A/D if you feel that your hit chance is a concern.

****

Also, you can buy proficiency with the Butchering Axe for 1,500 GP instead of placing a feat on it.


What do you think about one level dip in Spiritualist?

Pros:
Phantom is incorporeal so can scout ahead, sharing info via telepathy
Give you skill focus of two skill depending on the emotional focus
Certain phantoms give a feat (Iron Will)
Once a day reflect a failed mind affecting effect to Phantom instead of you (usually not an issue undead but you never know)
Minor spellcasting: 4 cantrips and 1 lv 1 spell
2/0/2 saves (Vig doesnt have any fort but wont need going vamp anyway)

Cons:
0 BAB (so at Spirit1, Vig 2, only +1 total BAB which sucks)
4+ int skill pts down from 6+int

Or just stick with lv 3 Vig?


Cons: Your phantom is stuck at level 1.
You're undead, so a major part of the phantom benefits are worthless.

****

I wouldn't bother unless the dip has good synergy with either your Combat Style, stats, or vampire abilities.

Like, Monk/Brawler if you want to flurry with bite attacks.
Monk/(anti)paladin/Oracle if you want to put that high Charisma to use.

If you have a feat-intensive build, then I'd take two levels of Brawler for 2 feats and flurry. But if you're using a standard 2-h build, don't bother.


The Sideromancer wrote:
A second level in Ninja would not impact your BAB and would give you a ki pool and some nice options. Secondly, nothing in the Core Rogue and Ninja actually focus on Dex more than Str. In a sense, the good Reflex save makes going Str-based more attractive since that's one less Dex-based thing to worry about.

Seconded. Ki pool plus feats for extra talents give nice things like Mirror Image, Vanish and other cool stuff for a sneak character.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Need help on my vampiric vigilante All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.