Character Advice - my daughter was killed in front of me in the game


Advice


So I just started a new adventure path with some friends last night, curse of the crimson throne. At the end of the first adventure my character who was looking for his abducted daughter found her being held by the antagonist who then stabbed her and threw her in a pit with a crocodile. It was pretty shocking to say the grea least!

Now I'm trying think through how my character will move forward. He is a washed up sable marine company ranger (sky stalker archetype as he used to have a hippogriff and longs to be reunited with his hippogriff Falon) who was forced into early retirement and has taken to the bottle prior to learning from his exwife that his teenage daughter was abducted.

I could move forward in several different RP directions. Depending on what these are they could have many or no impacts on him mechanically, i.e. changing classes, different feats etc.

Here's a few things I've thought;

- in his grief he ramps up his drinking to the nth level. He takes Drunkard's recovery, great fortitude or accelerated drinker as a feat/trait. He could also become a drunken brute barbarian.

- He becomes mad or maniac or depressed or catatonic; I could choose or roll on the madness/insane table. I saw somewhere a table that had some benefits to these conditions on it that I can't see now ( anyone know what I'm talking about?).

- consider taking a story feat that breaks sense maybe vengence (though he did kill the antagonist) or gruesome butcher. Something that effects him but gives him a goal.

- he could go to one of the evil worship houses in korvosa and go off the deep end changing alignment (neutral now) and leveling in inquisitor, cleric, or something related to his new deity that may be helping him with vengeance in general, or to bring back his daughter as a lich or something. Maybe take levels in witch??

Thanks for any advice!

Liberty's Edge

This is my opinion only so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Something as traumatic as this would almost CERTAINLY drive a PC insane and FAST if they can't do something in the "RIGHT F'Kn NOW" to seek vengeance or find a way to bring her back to life.

As a new father, there is nothing more terrifying in the world than the thought of losing my daughter, let alone in front of my very eyes, and while I'm no big fancy strong-willed PC, I most certainly would be caught in a nearly-inescapable mood of heart-wrenching depression and self-hatred. I could easily see MOST PCs simply giving up altogether and either retiring or ... "ending it" in this situation.

The madness conditions could be a decent way to doing this, but the event should almost certainly either represent a HUGE shift in your PC's worldview and ideals. A simple Madness and it's Mechanical Effects are still not nearly enough to represent what it would do to the person.

I can see a particularly pious PC attempting to atone for not being able to protect her and dedicate their life to rescuing and helping those who are helpless or enslaved, even to the point of acting when it would clearly be suicidal to do so.

I guess to a great degree, it likely depends on the PC's Alignment, more Lawful or Good Characters would likely try to "make it right" somehow whereas more Chaotic and Evil Characters would seek "blood for blood."

No matter how you spin it, this PC is in for a world-shattering grief experience that should be carefully considered.


I like the catatonic/sleepwalking response: monosyllabic responses; flat affect; no emotion. Just frozen inside. Does violent things automatically, without thought for consequences.

Or you could go the PTSD symptoms route:
Hyper-vigilance, startle response to normal stimuli, reliving the scene after a trigger that other people wouldn't realize was a trigger,
Waking nightmare/hallucination: you react to the current environment as if you were back at the original scene.

Shadow Lodge

Yikes. How about becoming overprotective to proxy child figures? Like other NPCs, or even another PC?
Any way you slice it, that was a horrible thing to happen.


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Going to point out that Raise Dead is a staple spell in Pathfinder. Have dad desperately seek out a resurrection spell of some sort. Then get overly protective. Seek out anyone related to the antagonist, threaten them. If they don't react well to the threat, make an example out of them. Start instructing the girl on 'how to defend herself' when you aren't around. Pass equipment to her. Have a really awkward and strained relationship with the ex-wife.

Possibly give up drinking. Or dive into it.

Change alignment. Make the GM regret ever doing that.


Whatever you choose to do, make sure you don't dominate table time with. Share the spotlight, work it in as the campaign advances.


Whatever the affect on the PC, treat it like a story arc in a comic book; it has a great import for some time, but eventually that story idea fades into the background to be replaced by the next hero's trial. That way it doesn't get over played or stagnant, and the one player doesn't monopolize table time.

In other words, play it like Eastwood's character William Muny from 'Unforgiven.' that's a great arc to play through!


I have to agree, this is a world where someone can be brought back. Perhaps he has connections or worst case he can "pay"for the service by pledging his loyalty to the god to bring her back. Probably by going inquisitor. The gm could use that as a tool from time to time, church needs you to go here, type things. It would change him drastically, the gm would have a hook and it wouldn't dominate the campaign. Pathfinder had the novels with a inquisitor which were pretty good. It might give you ideas for a character beholden to a god against his will


Considering how she died, it sounds like she'll need a True Resurrection to come back (I doubt a Make Whole on the crocodile droppings will work to give you an intact corpse). Those things are pricy - I can see his entire life being dedicated to amassing enough wealth to get someone to cast the spell.

Probably how I would do it: A driven workaholic, one who is chronically overworked, who calculates everything he does in how much money he can make towards his goal. Not too picky about the jobs so long as he stands a decent chance of making it out alive and it pays. What morals he may have had are mostly gone, though he has second thoughts about harming children (but may come to the conclusion that his own child is worth the pain of others')


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As someone who has gone through the experience of losing a daughter (although not in a manner quite so gruesome or prompted by the ill will of another) I want to voice a possibility that goes against the general grain:

Live for her.

Certainly, you can pursue the raise dead option, or the righteous quest to not let such tragedy happen to others, those are all fine. But those are actions. I'm talking about the mental state. You can spiral down into depression and madness, I won't argue that. I remember my tears, my desire to go dig a hole next to her grave and lay in it.

Or, after your grief, you can rise up as I have and take it upon yourself to live for her. Work twice as hard, to live your own life, and the one she will miss. Take the first step forward when you might hesitate, to honor her stolen first steps. However strong you believe she could have been, be that strong, because she would have gotten that strength from you.

She is a part of you, and you are a part of her. Let her life remind you that you are stronger than her death.

tldr: You can find focus without going grimdark.


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If I had a DM go this dark on me, I'd respond by having my character be a deadbeat Dad, and just move on.

Some things shouldn't happen in-game without a lengthy conversation out-of-game first.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm going to go with Black Bard above and say make your character a better hero because of the event. Crimson Throne is about a group of people striving to make their city better, to fight against the darker angels living among us.

This is essentially rock bottom for your character. His drinking and shirking has cost him his job, his beloved 'griff, his wife, and now his daughter. Take this as his rock bottom, his motivation to be a better man. To not let things in his city ever get to the point where kids are being used like the villain used his daughter.

You can choose to go up instead of digging deeper. It wil fit the campaign better and tell a better story than "the next villain's origin story."


  • Scream, "Nooooooo! I'll do anything to get her back!"

  • Acquire a very particular set of skills (Retrain all levels into Spiritualist)

  • Go on a revenge spree with your ghost-daughter


  • I have to disagree with Anguish, but that's just because our group is seriously story based. I don't believe pathfinder or D&D should strictly be a campaign of kill, loot, defeat, conquer. It is about character development, friendships, choices and consequences. I'm a method actor, so it is easy for me to get in character and define their reactions as different from mine. For others in our group, they have to methodically plan out their character's reactions and learning experiences after each session. Either way, it is part of the game, and part of the fun, learning how your character would react. One thing you will have to think about is, though, no matter which choice you make on how your character reacts, give him a way back. What in his personality is strongest, that will pull him back to life. Protection seems to be the consensus in this forum.

    Our DM planned a death of a character that mine was extremely close to, and, in a story twist my character hasn't figured out yet, give her a shadow without causing her to break with Pharasma. If we had discussed it at length outside of the game, it wouldn't have had the effect on out group as it did. It won't sound as good out of game, but imagine:

    Explosives are primed to go off any moment. A supposed hostage is actually a mole and just set a trap for the closest person. This character uses switch places to take the brunt of the blow, losing his arm in the process. The air is thick with dust and blood. No one except for my character can see through the impossible conditions. She see two enemies drop from the ceiling on the injured character, who takes his remaining blade and cuts himself with it. An Auquan phrase meant only for her ears and an unknown Shadow. "Watch over her for me." A sharp pain as the blade pierces her shoulder. Screams as another group member scoops her up and runs from the explosions and the collapsing cave system, ignoring her struggles.

    I am not ashamed to say I was in tears the moment I figured out what was happening. It was cruel, but brilliant, and the story can only develop from there. ...And just saying, we knew main characters would die during these battles, and many other characters had their huge story plots/enemies show up. We'd only gotten 4 hours of sleep and went through at least 6 very large encounters. We were expecting to kill off at least one PC, but somehow we all survived. ...We also managed to kill an enemy that was starting to be borderline on our side(he failed a reflex save) ...And we had an entire army, and we were left with... 8 total people? plus our party? So much emotional outrage, but nothing hit quite as hard as the surprise one that had been written in and planned for weeks. It had everyone shocked into silence.

    My character is withdrawn at the moment, dwelling in her normal self pity, though a bit darker and bit more quietly than the group is used to, but due to new character development, she will get pulled back by her "Adventuring Family", because that is what she lives for now. That is what will make her still a functional character.

    That's my opinion, anyway.

    Silver Crusade

    I would possibly dip into Vigilante, a split personality forming in the character, initially be all about vengeance, but evolving into a heroic figure. Watching her death made you fall(not in an evil sense). With the rest of the campaign about you rising.


    Shabti Princess wrote:
    I have to disagree with Anguish, but that's just because our group is seriously story based.

    Two comments.

    First and foremost... that's fine.

    Secondly, the way you've expressed yourself, you're implying that - and my group - do not play games "about character development, friendships, choices, and consequences." I won't bore you with a wall-of-text refutation, but suffice it to say, my groups aren't beer & peanuts casual gamers.

    What that means is that we - you and I - are the same in that regard. See, I didn't post what I did because our roleplay-fu is weak. Rather it's because some topics are real-world incendiary ones, and there should be table accord before things happen. If your table (or mine) is okay with infanticide as a plot hook, that's fine. But I don't get the impression that the OP is on-board with how real things just got, and nobody in the thread took a moment to bring up that some things are really and truly in poor taste unless a group is in harmony to include them.

    So roleplay e-peen aside, that's my point.

    Silver Crusade

    I agree that it's a point that should be discussed beforehand, however, being familiar with the villains, he is a grade A *insert suitably foul description* who, if I recall correctly, actually has that as his listed actions. You are supposed to HATE him.


    Step 1: Create 100 backup characters, each mentally unstable with how madly in love they are with the previous, and the first being as such to your current character. Have each of them have a minor bag of holding.

    Step 2: Declare your current character crazy from grief and have them fight the other PCs to the death. When they die, pull out a backup character, who obviously was stalking the now dead character.

    Step 3: Repeat Step 2 until team party kill, then move on to Step 4.

    Step 4: Every character had a minor bag of holding, since you basically get to assign gear based on the Wealth Balance Level for characters above 1st level. Have the winner loot everyone.

    Step 5: Look your GM straight in the eyes and say the following “Once they make their new characters, we’ll have the wealth of characters 5-10 levels higher than we currently are. This is your punishment for employing a f#&&ing horrendous child death when I’m not comfortable with such themes.”

    Step 6: Live comfortably knowing your GM won’t pull that crap on you anymore.


    Anguish wrote:

    Secondly, the way you've expressed yourself, you're implying that - and my group - do not play games "about character development, friendships, choices, and consequences." I won't bore you with a wall-of-text refutation, but suffice it to say, my groups aren't beer & peanuts casual gamers.

    Actually, I meant to imply that I did not agree with giving up on a character and going dead beat dad purely because the story got dark, or that long discussions of things happening in stories are needed so long as table rules are set at the beginning.

    I then continued to provide an example I hoped would answer the original question, which besides mentioning the shock factor, said nothing about this being a terrible move on the DM's part, and everything about how to play moving forward. It had nothing to do with your premise at all.

    I have no doubt that you and your table have sufficient experience, and did not mean to offend or insult your e-peen so horribly by disagreeing with a premise. But please, feel free to private message me a refute if you need. I love me a good word wall.

    XOXO

    P.S. As for infanticide... "teenage daughter"


    My reincarnated druid narrowly avoided a similar fate regarding his younger half-sister in the same AP. Fortunately, the shark failed its saving throw against charm animal. : D So Taluv went back from "stoic vengeance druid" to "jovial itinerant person who talks to bushes and laughs at jokes only he hears." If he had failed, he'd have spent the remainder of the campaign attempting to gain mastery over the cycle of life and death instead of simply guarding it.

    Losing a loved one is a very possible consequence of that campaign trait. How you play it out is up to you.


    No helpful feat suggestions here, and in fact this is probably a very mechanically poor decision. But... the grief and unwillingness to let go, might direct your character into taking levels of spiritualist.

    The revenant spirit of your teenage daughter beginning to manifest as a battle phantom. Sounds bad ass to me. As a GM I would certainly even give a buff to the phantom ability 1) to make it viable and 2) because that's great story telling.

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