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At level 5 you have 6 feats and you're probably a half-orc, hobgoblin, or some variety of native outsider with a strength bonus.
Weapon specialist AWT looks unlikely to help. 'he does not select a weapon group; instead, the bonus applies to the shadow weapons he creates' doesn't make shadow weapons a weapon group. Armed bravery, or possibly trained grace if you go heavily for dexterity look like better AWTs for this archetype.
For a dex-heavy build you'd go with weapon finesse of course, and perhaps skill focus (stealth) & owl style, combat reflexes, vigilant charger and difficult swings. Difficult swings would make it easier to get AoOs with combat reflexes, vigilant charger lets you wait without necessarily wasting actions when that's necessary. The trained grace AWT would come in with the level 6 feat then.
A more typical fighter based on strength might take power attack, furious focus, dirty fighting, improved reposition, tactical reposition and AWT (armed bravery), looking forward to that level 9 archetype ability to make full use of the reposition combat maneuver. It's still of some use now and gets better at level 6 with greater reposition.
The Gloomblade is only able to create two weapons at level 7.
is it really that good for him twf?
The way a gloomblade's shadow weapons are nerfed if they create two of them didn't inspire me to look closely at TWF. Looking now - a dex-heavy build using trained grace wouldn't be impossible. The main problem would be DR. With low enhancement bonuses which can't be increased in any practical way you can't beat DR that way, and you can't make shadow weapons out of special materials. The damage per hit won't be high enough to do a lot of damage through DR. A fighter investing in TWF feats probably doesn't have enough resources for a good plan B.
Unless your GM uses mainly humanoid rather than mainly monster enemies, it doesn't look practical to do TWF with a gloomblade.
Drakkiel mentioned thrown weapons and how unsatisfactory the gloomstorm feat was for them in your rules Q thread. It got me thinking about going the opposite way from the usual hail of thrown weapons - a standard action attack which would leave your move action free to create another weapon.
The startoss style and its successor feats are how you do this. Despite the name it only requires a one-handed or light melee weapon which you can throw, not a starknife. You're going to have to pick one though as it requires weapon focus - a doru is probably the best, use the 1d8 20/x2 one-handed martial proficiency option. You could pick up point blank shot, weapon focus, all three feats in the chain and either weapon specialization or precise shot as the remaining feat. With a 14 Str & 18 Dex within 30' that would be attack +13 (against a 2nd target too if the first hits), damage 1d8+11 or 1d8+13. With a +1 chain shirt, +1 buckler, amulet of natural armor +1 and a ring of protection +1 you have a 23 AC at a cost which seems acceptable given you don't have to buy weapons.
I don't see how Gloomblade would lean towards TWF. Sure, you're a fighter so it's possible, but I just don't see why one would want to do that (from a mechanical point of view), although see below.
Gloomblade doesn't actually alter Fighter much. Thus, it doesn't alter a Fighter's build selection too much, either. Thrown builds are pretty hard to do because the daily duration of Gloomstorm is too short, but apart from that, it's basically a normal Fighter.
TWF is a weird case because Isabelle forgot about double weapons. Unlike Mindblade Magus, Gloomblade does not bar creating a double weapon. RAW, you'd get the full bonus on both sides of a double weapon, which does make the archetype interesting for TWF. You still have the problem of needing high Dex (and pure RAW, you can't even take the AWT feat, as "applying it to one fighter weapon group you have already selected with the weapon training class feature" isn't possible, so you couldn't take Fighter's Finesse).
If your GM allows both of these to function, TWF does get interesting, although still not too strong - mobility is still a problem, and the feat investment needed is still pretty high.
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A gloomblade could also just buy a single weapon and still be at normal WBL (also allowing one of his weapons to have a special material) and then create the other weapon. Would work well for a shield bashing fighter I think. Buy the shield and get a free weapon.
Because I don't believe you can get a double weapon with both ends fully enhanced per pg 551 of the core rule book (emphasis mine):
Creating magic double-headed weapons is treated as creating two weapons when determining cost, time, and special abilities.
So you could either create a double weapon with only one end fully enhanced, or after level seven, create the double weapon as if creating two separate weapons.
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Question: Could a gloomblade conjure a slingstaff?
Technically it is a single weapon with both melee and thrown (Ranged) properties. I ask because no one seems to have an answer on most rules interactions regarding the slingstaff (The only cool thing about halfling combat styles).
Also would a spiked shield or armour spikes count for this ability as well? A shield is not a weapon, but it becomes one when made spiked or bashing.
A gloomblade could also just buy a single weapon and still be at normal WBL (also allowing one of his weapons to have a special material) and then create the other weapon. Would work well for a shield bashing fighter I think. Buy the shield and get a free weapon.
Possible, but then you don't have weapon training with your off-hand weapon. Plus, all the usual, numerous downsides of S&B TWF Fighter.
I don't believe you can get a double weapon with both ends fully enhanced per pg 551 of the core rule book
@Krogenia: No. If Gloomblade's ability would follow these rules (magic item creation via feats), it would also need "a heat source
and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools." Plus, "The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon."These rules are simply unrelated.
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then you don't have weapon training with your off-hand weapon.
That's a good point, though not insurmountable.
No. If Gloomblade's ability would follow these rules (magic item creation via feats), it would also need "a heat source
and some iron, wood, or leatherworking tools." Plus, "The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon." These rules are simply unrelated.
I did not mean to imply that we were using the magic weapon creation rules explicitly. I am only stating that the precedent has been set that it seems a double weapon is really two different weapons that are connected, and share a name (for purposes like Weapon Focus (X)). But when creating them, they are separate, they can have different materials, different magic applied. I guess I'm saying RAW, it seems you may be able to create a double weapon that is fully enhanced on both ends, but RAI it should follow the two weapon creation rules for shadow weapons if you want both ends enhanced.
I am only stating that the precedent has been set that it seems a double weapon is really two different weapons that are connected, and share a name (for purposes like Weapon Focus (X)).
One could argue that there's been a precedent set of not allowing double weapons at all with such abilities, because that's what the most similar archetype to Gloomblade, Mindblade Magus, does.
I think we can agree that this is an "ask your GM" thing. I personally like the idea of allowing it, as TWF is needlessly punished enough even without the higher weapon cost. It also broadens the playability of this pretty cool archetype, which is a plus in my opinion!
That's a good point, though not insurmountable.
Oh, sure. WT is only a relatively small numerical bonus - not having it for the offhand weapon is nothing but a speed bumb. I simply feel that TWF has a hard enough time on a Fighter as it is, even without that issue. Something easily overlooked is that the archetype looses proficiency with shields, and while a darkwood or mithral shield doesn't really need proficiency to properly use, some feats (Improved Shield Bash, Shield Master etc.) do require proficiency.
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I think we can agree that this is an "ask your GM" thing. I personally like the idea of allowing it, as TWF is needlessly punished enough even without the higher weapon cost.
Agree? On the internet? Seems risky, but maybe just this once. :)
Yeah I just play a lot of PFS so things like that where the character concept revolves around "ask you GM" generally aren't as viable. But I had forgot you lost shield prof. I suppose as a fighter you have the feats to just pick it back up, or just dip Brawler and get martial flexibility too.
Sorry for the necro, but doesn't Open Conduit solve the problem of Gloomstorm not providing enough rounds of free action weapon creation to make a TWF thrown weapon build viable?
I'd say it lessens the problems, but doesn't solve them. Like, at 6th level, you've got 11 rounds per day, that may not enough in many campaigns. The biggest issue is probably that you're likely to run out of daily rounds when you need your full strength the most, i.e. in big fights. Unlike other classes (or even other Fighters, with Warrior Spirit) that can spend their daily recources as a sort of afterburner, thrown based Gloomblade needs Gloomstorm to function at all.
The exception would be a Startoss Style build. maybe with added Rapid Shot: You use Startoss Shower when killing mooks (creating new weapons with your unneeded move actions), and use Rapid Shot with Gloomstorm for single targets.