Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
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Looks like a pretty strait forward scenario. I have read through it twice with no real questions about it.
The only thing that is slightly off is on the map for encounter B. I believe B3 should be on the third ship down on the map instead of the second. Since B4 is the main deck and in that box text described the barred door, which is I believe the Captain's Quarters, B3.
One question, that is not related to the scenario particularly, is on the breath weapon for the dragons. I researched and found that the breath weapon can be used every d4 rounds. My question is, do I roll the d4 every time I use the breath weapon and that is the recharge time, or do I roll it once and stick with that?
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The recharge time is 1d4 rounds, which means you roll it each time. Otherwise it would be 1d4 rounds the first time, and then change to what you rolled as the recharge time the following.
According to Michael in the production discussion, the ship map changed just prior to release, so the description of B3 doesn't match anymore. I get to run this next weekend, so hopefully there is clarification by then.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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My players were not happy that doing the right thing and not-fighting the dragon got them a negative boon. I came up with a compromise. The dragon's orders were to bring back a scroll of teleport. Which costs 1125. The Grinning Pixie sells anything up to 2500. So before the scenario 'ended' I let them use their existing funds to buy the one scroll and finish their obligation without getting the boon.
Better than EACH of them having to cough up 1125.
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Contributor
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I just checked in on this and everything should be in order at this time, is it still showing as unavailable for you?I am supposed to run on Saturaday and is currently unavailible. Will I have it on time?
The production page still shows the "Coming Soon" image, so that might be misleading to folks, but it is available and downloads successfully when purchased.
At the end, my character refused to bow down to the dragon, and didn't know that the dragon had any illusion on it, and didn't want to screw it up for the rest of the group, so told the Dragon to screw off, and then lept into the eye of the effect. What happens when you leap into the eye of the effect? We're still playing the game, and we're going to need to figure out if I do a raise dead or a body recovery or anything...
Is my character alive, but somewhere else...?
Well, that is hilarious. We just finished, and I guess I spun around for a while and came out dizzy.
Thanks!
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Venture-Captain, Conventions—PaizoCon
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What stats should be used for the Cultists in C3 if the PCs attack?
I'm not expecting many players in my lodge to go from hearing "What was your business in there?" to attacking without some roleplay, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that an annoyed group of PCs (especially if they are combat-heavy and have so far only had 1 fight during the scenario) might want to shoot first and ask questions later.
Also, I'd like to forward this implied question from the product discussion thread:
The wording of that 'boon' is also strange. It seems like the players at the table should be given the option of dividing the cost of a single Scroll of Teleport amongst all of the players at the table, but the way it's worded, everyone is getting charged the full amount (each).
Thanks in advance.
Edit/addition just for the sake of sharing data: While I don't have every single scenario and module chronicle sheet in existence downloaded, I do have ~275 of them, and so I was curious. Doing a full reader search reveals that exactly 1 of those chronicle sheets has a scroll of teleport on it.
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Contributor
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My players were not happy that doing the right thing and not-fighting the dragon got them a negative boon.In effect, what they think as the right thing might end up being the wrong thing. Their logic isn't bad, but not always adapted to that specific case. It is not inherently bad/evil to fight it, not being needed for the balance of the area nor I would miss a delusional individual, but that depends of the mood of the group. If only viewed on the lens of the Society's goals, it even might be better if the dragon is removed, incapacitated or pidgeonholed to surrender.
But I would take pains to help Nalu to get out.
Fighting the dragon isn't the wrong thing. It may be cute, young, small, whatever, but brine dragons are arrogant little sh*ts, singularly focused on gathering a following of "lesser beings" (including your party). The dragon isn't going to negotiate or be pigeonholed into surrendering. It wants servants, and as intended, the slightest disrespect will set it off and make it roll initiative. There is no reasoning with it. You can bow or die.
Removing or incapacitating it are, in my book, methods of success. There's even a provision in the scenario for knocking it unconscious and bringing it back to the Grinning Pixie alive.
The only "wrong thing" a party can do is to swear fealty to it.
In my original script, I made it pretty much impossible to swear the oath to the dragon. Just because it's what the boss wants, doesn't mean the boss should get it! Originally, the dragon would ask for a test of loyalty that would be distasteful and essentially impossible for the PCs to fulfill, requiring an evil act, which would railroad PCs back to combat when they hesitated.
Paizo made the bold decision to take that choice out of the narrative and put it back in the players' hands, essentially saying, "No, if they choose to do this, let them. They'll see what it gets them." On one hand, wow, that "boon" is harsh. On the other hand, it made me laugh out loud. I think it's daring and brilliant on Paizo's part. I've NEVER seen a chronicle sheet with such bold consequences before. And yeah, you're Pathfinders, you made an oath above your oaths to the PFS and to your own gods. Maybe next time, Paizo seems to say, don't do that.
(It's still harsh. I still love it.)
And, thank you for saving Nalu and Kelp. :)
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Contributor
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"The rift emanates the power of the Planes of Air and Water, drawing
currents and waves in a chaotic dance of destruction, though
the portal doesn’t appear to be drawing anything through
into the plane beyond."So you just fall in the water.
Agree. It isn't sucking any living creatures into it. If you're an elemental, on the other hand, it might be a long walk back to the rest of your party...
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Contributor
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What stats should be used for the Cultists in C3 if the PCs attack?
I'm not expecting many players in my lodge to go from hearing "What was your business in there?" to attacking without some roleplay, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility that an annoyed group of PCs (especially if they are combat-heavy and have so far only had 1 fight during the scenario) might want to shoot first and ask questions later.
Give them the stats of basic NPC unarmed civilians. They're upset on a religious/spiritual level that people are coming out of their sacred cave, but they're not prepared to do anything about it. Your party of dragon-subduers would wipe the floor with them, especially after they're demoralized about their "god in the cave" just being an arrogant little dragon.
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Contributor
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Have yet to run but that negative boon is just hideously bad - especially for a tactic that at first read seemed perfectly reasonable. It's bad enough I'm hesitant to run it because I think it'll sap all the fun out of the session if it happens. An ominous "brine dragon will remember this" boon would be cool, but that one... ouch!
I think it's okay to take steps as a GM to make sure it doesn't happen. Maybe make the dragon extra insecure and have it attack as soon as anyone doubts its sovereignty. That's pretty much in there already. Or if they want to bow to it, remind them that they'd have to forsake their vows to their gods. Or maybe it tells them to prove their loyalty by slaying a party member or something.
I don't think it's too much GM-interference to try to guide them out of the noose, so to speak. "Are you sure that's what you want to do?" is a question GMs ask all the time. And then your party can have a good laugh about "what if we'd decided to obey the dragon" when they read the chronicle sheet.
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Question on scaling encounter C2 for four players:
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Contributor
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Question on scaling encounter C2 for four players:
** spoiler omitted **
It seems weird, and I've given this a lot of thought. I'm not sure it's what was intended, and I think I'd have to play it out to be sure. On paper, I do see a rationale for it
I'd welcome players' thoughts or experiences with it.
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Venture-Captain, Conventions—PaizoCon
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When I ran it, I intentionally took my time, drew out the RP whenever possible, let the players take a long stretch break...and we still finished in less than 4 hours.
(Noting that they bypassed both sets of crabs with good knowledge rolls and "bait" and also immediately noticed Nalu and helped, avoiding fighting Kelp as well)
Hope that helps!
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I haven't GM'd this scenario, but I did just play it the other day.
I actually really like the consequence part of the brine dragon fight, for what it is, BUT (and I don't own the scenario so I can't say it is an as written problem or a GM issue) the feeling I got from the encounter was not one of "overriding my oaths to my god and the society" (or in this case RP oaths to the forest my druid came from), but more of "hey you promise to work for me if/when I need you" (more like a aligning yourselves with the dragon instead of against). Being my character I tried to ask about what the dragon would have us do and got "no answer" and also tried to say "well I am already sworn to my home forest, soooo...", but due to the rest of the party not seeing any problem and pretty much immediately being willing to promise to help the dragon I didn't want to push things for my own sake.
Basically what I am saying, is in my groups particular case we needed a little more "this is not inherently your best option like diplomacy is in almost any other time you are not dealing with the Aspis Consortium".
Then (again not sure as written problem or GM interpretation), the brine dragon didn't tell us what we had to do for it until we were in the midst of leaving and gave no option/time to be like "wait what?" Which was weird to me because if we had a chance to be like "hey you want one now? OR like what, cuz we can bring one back in like half hour, give us a sec to go meet our friends and get one"
Also James Anderson's solution to the teleport scroll problem seems like a rather good option to give the players before then slapping them with the "boon" that then commits each of them to buy such an expensive scroll individually at some point.
One other note I want to mention I find funny. Reading the "boon" by the time the brine dragon would come to cause issues for you, I feel the PC's would be strong enough to possibly even go slay the bigger dragon it is pretending to be by themselves if it was causing problems for them, so the concept of it seems rather funny.
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Contributor
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I haven't GM'd this scenario, but I did just play it the other day.
One other note I want to mention I find funny. Reading the "boon" by the time the brine dragon would come to cause issues for you, I feel the PC's would be strong enough to possibly even go slay the bigger dragon it is pretending to be by themselves if it was causing problems...
Oh, wow... That would be so awesome.
HEY PAIZO, PLEASE LET ME WRITE THIS!
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The group I ran refused to swear loyalty to the dragon overall (although a couple were willing), so we ended up in combat. One breath weapon later, the PCs decided to stand down and retreat, and I decided the dragon would let them. After all, having them escape would mean they'd likely report the dragon's presence and add to its notoriety (and maybe win it more converts), while killing the characters didn't really benefit it.
It's important to note that the characters' mission is NOT to kill the dragon; it's to retrieve information on what happened to the ship and about the anomaly. My group ended up with full success after good RP with the cultists at the end. I did have to give the Concordance player a strong hint with an Int roll that they might want to try recruiting the cultists, though, since there was nothing obvious in the scenario prior clearly calling this out as an option.
I think it took my group about 4-1/2 to 5 hours, but they did battle both crab groups in the first part.
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My players took a bit over three hours, and had plenty of time for roleplaying.
They bypassed the first crabs, fought the swarm (constantly missing with alchemical weapons), and saved Kelp and Nalu without a fight. They refused to bow before the dragon. Thanks partially to abyssmal initiative on my part the fight was over in two rounds. The face of the party stabilized the dragon, put it on a leash, and flew it like a kite above the boat. He kept scolding the dragon like it was a naughty child whenever it would ask if there was someone it could lord over. Nobody even tried to fight with the cultists, since they were unarmed.
I can't speak for the players, but I had fun.
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Have run both high and low tier.
Parties both made the 'crab' checks, managed to avoid fighting in low tier, fed and THEN BLEW UP swarms in high tier.
Undead scarier for low tier, high tier played around in that fight.
Both saved Nalu, and both wanted to ride Kelp.
Both parties triggered last fight by revealing emperor's lack of clothes. Both parties subdued and brought TM back with, using the 'ferry' method with TM unconscious.
Fun so far!
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Contributor
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I ran it last night for my home group. The level 2 PCs, with no healer, chose to play up...and lived. :)
Something I hadn't seen yet: they all went in together on their own backup swan boat (450g, split between party members) so that they wouldn't be screwed if they lost the free boat... Which gave them time to meander leisurely at half speed through the sand on the coral map.
Healed Kelp and Nalu; the half-orc asked Nalu if hippocampi are tasty, which made him a little uncomfortable.
Threw a rock at the dragon almost before it finished introducing itself. Half-orc ate most of the corpse before anyone could stop him. Someone cast slumber on the half-orc to save the rest of it (it's evidence! and loot!) from him.
The party did not see through the illusion, but got REALLY freaked out when they kept failing will saves, which I would make note of but then not share any consequences.
All in all, much fun. I have a medium dragon mini and a small dragon mini with the same paint job. I'm hoping next time I run it I'll have a chance to swap them out at some dramatically appropriate moment.
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Ran this four times in total.
Used the large pawn and the medium pawn to emphasize the distinction between the two, and would secretly hold up the small pawn with my hands cupped to show folks the truth of the matter as they made Will saves.
In two of the fights the Monarch was subdued before the majority of the party made the will saves, which made it all the more amusing.
"That thing went down too easily. Is THIS an illusion or a trick? Hit it again to be SURE!"
I did not have anyone with the four-player adjustment at the high tier, all of my tables had a minimum of five players, and the most memorable scene of the Sunday slot was a five or six year old (playing with their parents) going "So can I Detect Magic so I can see how cool it is?"
...which kind of spilled the beans after the Spellcraft check. "He's lying to us!"
"Roll for Initiative!"
Venture-Lieutenant, Illinois—Fairview Heights
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I ran this on Tuesday and came across an interesting question. As I understood it, the combat with the crab swarms takes place in 1-2 feet of water. The crabs can swim and unless a reason I can't fathom is given, would mostly remain under the water. How does this effect alchemist bombs, alchemist fire, or acid flasks as they would either be ineffective or reduced in this condition?
As the party felt they had little which could hurt the swarms while in the water, they made a dash into the hole in the ship.
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The environmental rules count a shallow bog as 1 foot of water, while a deep bog is 4 feet of water. The only penalties for a shallow bog are doubling the cost of movement and increasing the DC of Acrobatics checks. I would not give them cover or anything, but missed attacks might not splash depending on where in the water they land.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Michigan—Detroit
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I ran this on Tuesday and came across an interesting question. As I understood it, the combat with the crab swarms takes place in 1-2 feet of water. The crabs can swim and unless a reason I can't fathom is given, would mostly remain under the water. How does this effect alchemist bombs, alchemist fire, or acid flasks as they would either be ineffective or reduced in this condition?
If what's in Emerald Spire can considered accurate (from a rules perspective), room E3 in the Drowned Level (p. 58), says this:
Except for the refuse pile in the southwest corner, this room is flooded to a depth of 2 feet and counts as difficult terrain for anyone on foot.
and this about the combat with a crab swarm:
Because crabs can swim, any combat in this room other than on the refuse pile is underwater. The water protects the swarm from alchemist's fire in any flooded square, though alchemical attacks using acid, cold, or electricity can still harm it, as can magical attacks (though the water counts as cover, providing the swarm a +2 bonus on saving throws against area attacks originating from above the water).
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Venture-Lieutenant, Michigan—Detroit
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Paizo made the bold decision to take that choice out of the narrative and put it back in the players' hands, essentially saying, "No, if they choose to do this, let them. They'll see what it gets them." On one hand, wow, that "boon" is harsh. On the other hand, it made me laugh out loud. I think it's daring and brilliant on Paizo's part. I've NEVER seen a chronicle sheet with such bold consequences before. And yeah, you're Pathfinders, you made an oath above your oaths to the PFS and to your own gods. Maybe next time, Paizo seems to say, don't do that.
They may have put it in the players' hands, but I don't think they provided enough information to let them know this is a bad decision. This is what the mod says if PCs ask the Tempest Monarch what's entailed in swearing fealty to it:
(this space intentionally left blank)
There is no answer provided to what I think is a perfectly reasonable question -- a question that would probably leave no doubt about what the best decision is for most PCs, given your answer above, where they're putting the Tempest above all else -- PFS, country, and even god(dess). Though I saw nothing in the mod that indicates swearing fealty to the Tempest overrules any other oaths a character has sworn, especially to one's deity.
Though it's not mentioned (that I'm aware of), I think it's reasonable that a loyal subject from Taldor (especially one who has earned a noble title boon) has sworn fealty to the crown of that nation and nowhere is it mentioned that this trumps an oath to the PFS or one's own deity. If fact, given that one of the boons for Taldan nobility is in the Pathfinder Society Field Guide, it should be more than acceptable. I don't see an oath fealty as being so restrictive, though maybe history buffs with real world examples could set me straight.
The mod goes on to say this about the Tempest Monarch:
While the Tempest Monarch treats the area around the anomaly as a lair and throne room, the truth is that the dragon was swept into the cave and trapped by the currents, just as the PCs were. They rely upon the sea creatures that the current washes into the cave for sustenance.
How is this trapped creature going to "take pains to ruin your reputation"? I assume that he wants/needs the scroll of teleport to get out of the cave. Is he going to sully the PCs' reputation to the next group of Pathfinders who enters the cave to study the planar anomaly but only if they, too, forswear their oaths to the PFS and their deities?
And a quibble: If you're going to include an out to a bad boon, make it reasonable. Based on Mike Bramnik's post about the availability of scrolls of teleport on chronicles, the alternative really isn't much of an alternative.
I don't have a problem with negative boons on chronicles, though I do not care for how it was implemented in this mod as it seems more like a trap and the negative consequences seem to come from a plot hole.
On the contrary, I wish there were more consequences for bad (especially "kill 'em all, let the gods sort 'em out") choices in PFS. (Like, say, if a paladin wants to keep an evil ioun stone for a free feat and just pay for an atonement. Yeah,
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Giant Gaping Plot Hole
I ran this over the weekend, and while I generally enjoyed it, there is one thing that bugs me.
If the PCs lose their boat, they have to swim out of the grotto which requires three DC 20 Swim checks.
The brine dragon, who is supposed to be "trapped" in the grotto, has a 60 ft. Swim speed and a Swim skill level of +18 at low tier and +22 at high tier.
It should be a piece of cake for the dragon to leave the grotto anytime they like (and this isn't even taking account their flight ability).
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It's handwaved as the dragon being affected by the planar rift, since brine dragons are native to the plane of water. The planar rift exerts too much pull on them, while PCs are not affected and can make the listed DCs.
OK, I can see how this can be inferred from the text of the Elemental Disturbance box. However, this line of thought seems to be contradicted by the fact that the PCs are explicitly allowed to knock out the dragon and transport it out of the cave and to the Grinning Pixie.
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The swan boat can navigate out using the same checks used to navigate in on page 14.
So, the dragon can not leave on its own because of its elemental nature.
However, an unconscious dragon can be transported out on the swan boat without any difficulty?
What if the dragon has surrendered and is still conscious? Can it travel out on the swan boat while still being unable to swim or fly under its own power?