What's the point of Constitution?


Prerelease Discussion

51 to 63 of 63 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Heather 540 wrote:
I hope they keep Con the way it is. The very definition of constitution is health and vitality. Sure, strength is a factor of that, but so is agility. A sickly person isn't going to do a tumbling routine.

Agreed.

Heather 540 wrote:
And I admit I haven't been following the blogs about PF2, but I've noticed that some people here are saying that they want HP bonuses to be class-based. Is HP going to be gained a different way in PF2? Because in PF1, gaining HP is already class-based. Big difference between a wizard's d6 and a paladin's d10 hit die. Con-based HP bonuses are what can make up for that so the wizard doesn't get killed by a single hit if an opponent gets around the paladin.
It's flat numbers rather than dice (Fighters get 10 HP per level plus Con Mod, Wizards get 6, Clerics get 8, etc.) but yes, HP is already Class based in PF2.

Then yeah, I want HP bonuses based on my character's Con. If I play a wizard, I want him to be able to survive. And really, when you think about it, there is no such thing as a SAD character. All characters need Dex, Con, and Wis for AC, HP, and saving throws. Everyone needs a little bit of Strength to be able to carry their stuff. Heck, even ranged-specialized characters need some Strength so they don't get penalized on damage. Some classes are just able to drop a skill or 2 better than others.


All we need is a con caster. Have we had the sorcerer preview yet? If not, it is not too late......Hybrid vitality for the win.


Alternatively, you could break dex into dex (hand) and agility (dex for feet) and just assume fortitude (and hp's) are functions of class level (or CR for NPC's).

And as long as you are replacing things: mysticism (seeing magic/psychic/occult/nature patterns in the world) for wisdom--pretty similar but a little less confusion about why you would use myst vs. int or cha for a given save.

So fighter could be primary str, secondary dex.
Rogue could be primary dex, secondary agility
Wizard could be primary int, secondary dex (add some checks for manipulating material components)
Clerics could be primary myst, secondary int (PhD. in theology)
Sorcerers could be primary cha, secondary myst
Bards could be primary cha, secondary int
Rangers could be primary dex, secondary myst
Paladins could be primary myst, secondary str
Barbarians could be primary str, secondary agility
Monks could be primary agility, secondary dex
Artificers could be primary int, secondary dex
Druids could be primary myst, secondary agility (gain animal-like agility as a side effect from wild shaping)


Mechagamera wrote:

Alternatively, you could break dex into dex (hand) and agility (dex for feet) and just assume fortitude (and hp's) are functions of class level (or CR for NPC's).

And as long as you are replacing things: mysticism (seeing magic/psychic/occult/nature patterns in the world) for wisdom--pretty similar but a little less confusion about why you would use myst vs. int or cha for a given save.

So fighter could be primary str, secondary dex.
Rogue could be primary dex, secondary agility
Wizard could be primary int, secondary dex (add some checks for manipulating material components)
Clerics could be primary myst, secondary int (PhD. in theology)
Sorcerers could be primary cha, secondary myst
Bards could be primary cha, secondary int
Rangers could be primary dex, secondary myst
Paladins could be primary myst, secondary str
Barbarians could be primary str, secondary agility
Monks could be primary agility, secondary dex
Artificers could be primary int, secondary dex
Druids could be primary myst, secondary agility (gain animal-like agility as a side effect from wild shaping)

In hindsight, wizard could be primary int, secondary myst.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
We could combine Con and Str, but we could also combine Wis and Cha or Dex and Int. Anybody up for a 3 attributes game?

Ah, finally, someone with an interest in Tri-Stat dX.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

My daughter is strong but is sick with strep throat today. Yeah, constitution matters and is not tied to STR.


I really hope that in PF2 that CON and STR allow characters to do much more, like with skills. I also think that there should be a sort of appearance stat, or something like it. How you look is a huge part of almost every social encounter and yet looks are only ever brought up when the GM remembers that your character is a half-orc and might not fit in. I think that this stat for looks should be a mix of different things, so maybe it'd be CHA, CON and STR all mixed in one, plus your outfit could also add onto it, and maybe magic items too or makeup. I'd kinda like for PF2 to have more social rules and make it a bit more interesting, so hopefully the new system does that.


Tayoyo wrote:
I really hope that in PF2 that CON and STR allow characters to do much more, like with skills. I also think that there should be a sort of appearance stat, or something like it. How you look is a huge part of almost every social encounter and yet looks are only ever brought up when the GM remembers that your character is a half-orc and might not fit in. I think that this stat for looks should be a mix of different things, so maybe it'd be CHA, CON and STR all mixed in one, plus your outfit could also add onto it, and maybe magic items too or makeup. I'd kinda like for PF2 to have more social rules and make it a bit more interesting, so hopefully the new system does that.

they tried that in d&d2 iirc. It was a waste of time. I think we dropped it as soon as we saw it.


Gavmania wrote:
Tayoyo wrote:
I really hope that in PF2 that CON and STR allow characters to do much more, like with skills. I also think that there should be a sort of appearance stat, or something like it. How you look is a huge part of almost every social encounter and yet looks are only ever brought up when the GM remembers that your character is a half-orc and might not fit in. I think that this stat for looks should be a mix of different things, so maybe it'd be CHA, CON and STR all mixed in one, plus your outfit could also add onto it, and maybe magic items too or makeup. I'd kinda like for PF2 to have more social rules and make it a bit more interesting, so hopefully the new system does that.
they tried that in d&d2 iirc. It was a waste of time. I think we dropped it as soon as we saw it.

Yes, it was Comeliness.

Unearthed Arcana wrote:
Comeliness reflects physical attractiveness, social grace, and personal beauty of the character. It is used to determine initial reactions to the character, and characters with a high comeliness may affect the wills and actions of others. While charisma deals specifically with leadership and interactions between characters, comeliness deals with attractiveness and first impressions.

It sucked, but that may have been in part because it was implemented as a fundamental attribute right along with the usual six (though one's charisma did modify it). As a secondary stat generated from Cha/Con/whatever it might not be as bad, though I still wouldn't be psyched for it.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:
If you want a comeliness/attractiveness stat then you can play Hackmaster. Maybe someone will finally let me subject them to Hackmaster.
Lol I always thought of hackmaster as a parody of 1st/2nd edition D&D. like an intentional satire of the system. (In fact I think that was the actual intent right?)

That's pretty much the whole point of Hackmaster, yes.

EDIT: Though as Excaliburproxy notes, it is also a functional game.

I don't know about the new edition/version of HackMaster, but the one stand-out subsystem from the "parody edition" of HackMaster that I loved was the Honor system, which tied into characters' alignments. What is honorable for a Chaotic Evil character is dishonorable for Lawful Good characters and vice versa. Being able to trash other peoples' honor was part and parcel of the system.

"Dude's trashing my honor! There's no way I'm taking that lip!" Good times.


Clearly, many of you have never had a doctor tell you to lay off the weights and get on the treadmill. But believe me, this is a real thing, and one day, you will.

Strength is not cardio. Constitution is cardio. They are very different. Lifting weights will not help stave off disease. But riding a bike will. So will just generally having a better diet. And in some cases, for some people, NOT building huge muscles is healthier, since it can add stresses that some of us cannot long endure, and the diet necessary to it is one we cannot adapt to or tolerate.

I suppose you'll understand when you're older?


Bruunwald wrote:

Clearly, many of you have never had a doctor tell you to lay off the weights and get on the treadmill. But believe me, this is a real thing, and one day, you will.

Strength is not cardio. Constitution is cardio. They are very different. Lifting weights will not help stave off disease. But riding a bike will. So will just generally having a better diet. And in some cases, for some people, NOT building huge muscles is healthier, since it can add stresses that some of us cannot long endure, and the diet necessary to it is one we cannot adapt to or tolerate.

I suppose you'll understand when you're older?

I... I have to get rid of my huge muscles? Noooooooooooo!

I worked so hard on them!


2 people marked this as a favorite.

A friend of mine does a TON of weight lifting and is very muscular, but if someone even sneezes near him, he gets sick. Best example of a high Strength with a low Constitution I can think of. There are plenty of boxers who can hit like a truck, but have a glass jaw. And I also know plenty of big strong guys who can't drink more than a few beers without puking their guts up. Constitution SHOULD NOT be combined with Strength. Ever.

51 to 63 of 63 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion / What's the point of Constitution? All Messageboards
Recent threads in Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion