What's the most overpowered monster?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


Title says it all.


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No, really, title doesn't say it all. Overpowered *how*? Like highest CR creature in Pathfinder? Most difficult for the CR? Most overpowered ability? Mythic? Non-mythic? Gods? Homebrew? Why even ask this question?

Sovereign Court

The GM?


The GM...

Edit: ninja'ed.


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Jack Handey (Saturday Night Live) wrote:
Contrary to what most people say, the most dangerous animal in the world is not the lion or the tiger or even the elephant. It's a shark riding on an elephant's back, just trampling and eating everything they see.


I meant most overpowered for its CR


Shadows


Anything that can quickly start a death spiral, such as:

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Shadows


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The small aether elemental is pretty ridiculous for CR 1, with flight, blindsense, telekinesis, natural invisibility, and multiple ranged attack options.

A winter hag with a couple hag or witch minions gets access to a free unlimited-use full-round action simulacrum. At CR 7, that's got to be one of the most overpowered abilities in the game.


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Avoron wrote:

The small aether elemental is pretty ridiculous for CR 1, with flight, blindsense, telekinesis, natural invisibility, and multiple ranged attack options.

A winter hag with a couple hag or witch minions gets access to a free unlimited-use full-round action simulacrum. At CR 7, that's got to be one of the most overpowered abilities in the game.

Oh boy oh boy. Now you have ∞ hag covens.


Yqatuba wrote:
I meant most overpowered for its CR

Any Full Caster, but especially Arcane ones.


I'm partial to The Mantis God, myself. XD It's just flat-out immune to lethal damage from things that aren't at least demigods. Between that, high CR, and some nasty tricks... it's pretty brutal.


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Housecat wins CR 1/4th by a long distance. Like Shadows, various swarms are pretty nasty to low level characters if they aren't prepared.


Tooth fairies are pretty brutal for their CR, and I love them.

Shadows or ghouls definitely come to mind here. Wights are pretty savage with their level drain at APL3 or so.

Low level encounters are in general swingy-er. In the RotRL game I'm playing in we absolutely steamrolled the shadow factory with almost no STR damage. But we've almost TPK'd against the goblin ghasts below Foxglove Manor. 3/4 of the party got paralyzed.

High level encounters tend to favor the PCs as they have more resources at their disposal.

Semi-related: I've always wanted to run a 1st level party against a witch (crazy cat lady) and her army of murderous housecats.

Sovereign Court

Aerial Creature Leech Swarms?
CR 5, 2d6+1d6 electric swarm attack
Plus Blood Drain(1d3 Str & Con damage no save)
Plus Poison(1d4 Dex drain)
Fly 30', Stealth +16(+24 in swam)
DR 3/-, Immune Weapons, Resist 15 Electric


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deuxhero wrote:
Housecat wins CR 1/4th by a long distance.

I dunno, there are some pretty tough CR 1/4 critters out there.

To start with, the skunk has stats pretty much identical to the cat, except it also has a ranged musk spray that hits on an 8 and the cat needs a 10 to save against. The nausea on a failed save is basically a death sentence, and even on a success they're still sickened.

Then there's the king crab or creeper ivy, either of which will succeed on its grapple check on a 2 and knock the cat unconscious from constrict damage on the second turn.

The scarlet spider might just win through hit-and-run tactics alone - it hits the cat on a 7 while the cat needs a 14 to hit back, the spider has 1 more hp, and as long as the spider keeps moving the cat can't get off a full-attack. Plus there's that Str poison that incapacitates on three failed saves to discourage the cat from just sitting there.

The porcupine beats the cat in the greatest way possible: any attack the cat makes will hurt itself just as much, and the porcupine has more hp and a solid tail attack to help speed things along. A cat is likewise helpless against a pufferfish despite its lack of natural weapons or a land speed. The lich newt could win through a similar mechanism, though not as efficiently - the cat might knock it unconscious before succumbing to the poison, though it certainly won't kill it, and the newt will recover more quickly.

The nymph water strider has a flight speed and 5-ft. reach, so it can just beat down the cat while swooping by from above without even entering its space. Likewise, the pyrausta can just strafe the cat from the air with its breath weapon, or just swoop down with Flyby Attack. Even if the cat readies an attack and gets lucky, it won't matter with the pyrausta's fast healing. It can also just set the ground on fire with its at-will spark.

Finally, the mite and the tooth fairy are both entirely immune to all of the cat's attacks, and thus can take their leisurely time stabbing it to death or stealing it's teeth.


Anemos maybe? With their ridiculous range, and powerful special attacks, anemoi can crush things way out of their nominal weight category without breaking a sweat.


Worm that walks can be a pretty broken template - since you can add it to any spellcaster, no matter how low the initial CR. Damage reduction 15, some fast healing, immune to a lot of things, transform into a swarm etc. etc..


deuxhero wrote:
Housecat wins CR 1/4th by a long distance.

Kobolds are CR 1/4, have better AC and HP, have darkvision, don't have the disadvantage of 0-foot reach, can make ranged attacks, and can craft traps. And they have better teamwork than the average cat.

Conclusion: the Kobold is the most overpowered being in the universe.


The joke in our Lodge is that the Wall of Names has a whole panel dedicated to pathfinders killed by the minotaur at the end of Confirmation, so I'm tempted to throw in a vote for the mighty minotaur....at least in 1st level evergreen scenarios....


I've been killed by or committed more TPKs by swarms than anything else, so they get my vote.


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My ex wife.


Pantshandshake wrote:
My ex wife.

HEY-OOOOOOOO!


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most common and deadly, Ghouls


The Tarrasque has always struck me as just ridiculous. But I rarely play at a very high level, so maybe it’s not that tough for a high level party.


Committees.


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Danava Titan for me, easily. Even though it's CR24, I'd be more willing to throw a different monster that's CR30 at them instead.


Whenever a Revenant appears in an AP, the obituaries forum page gets quite a few additional posts.


Do we count Wizards? Or maybe Power Gamer as a foe to battle?

Okay okay, joke and spite aside;

It really depends on your power level(Level, Items, etc) and who you have(Classes, number of players, Leeroys vs Tacticals).

As voideternal said, Revenants tend to rack up decent body counts. Ghouls also tend to be pretty good at getting a kill or two but that's only at low levels. And while it's cheese and min max, usable only on the truly deserving, Tucker's Kobolds are probably a tough encounter to deal with.


Add a template that increases con for a creature already strong enough to justify needing to be epic level to fight, such as a Kaiju with the Half-Dragon template.

+3 extra hit points per each HD makes for a really overpowered monster for its CR when it has like 30+ HD.

Then because of the +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, -2 when adding PC class levels to a monster, add one level of a NON-key class to the monster, which won’t increase CR.

So you can make, say, the Kaiju Mogaru, a Half-Dragon (any type that doesn’t have fire as a breath weapon so it can gain a new immunity) Young Giant Advanced Fighter 1, who only gains 3 in CR, but now gains two new feats, a new HD, and 7 extra points per HD than normal. With 35 HD, that’s a lot of extra hit points. Way over 200 extra hit points, for the cost of +3 CR. And we can add Toughness as a feat to him. And he gains the wealth of a level 31 Heroic NPC. What that is is up to the GM, since it is epic level, but even if it was only 20th level Heroic NPC wealth, he could afford to retrain all of his hp to max.

So he jumps from 697 hp, to 1,155 hp. That’s a 458 hit point increase for just +3 CR: plus he can still deck himself out with some magic items afterwards. How much still depends on the GM, but I’m certain he could get a +6 Belt of Mighty Con. So that is an extra +105 hp, for a new total of 1,260 hp, for a total increase of 563 hit points. And he still has all the other increases to stats that don’t factor into his hp, so that’s also something to consider.

You see how broken adding a class level and templates to an already high CR creature is?


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
You see how broken adding a class level and templates to an already high CR creature is?

Hmm, CR scale is exponential, so +3 CR is supposed to be a really significant improvement, no matter the initial CR. For +3 CR you can alternatively get the same monster three times. Means three times the HP (nearly 2,100 for mogarus) and three times the damage output (and other offense) as long as all of them are up.

Any templates with CR increase must compete with that - hence +1 templates like advanced are already strong.


SheepishEidolon wrote:
Reksew_Trebla wrote:
You see how broken adding a class level and templates to an already high CR creature is?

Hmm, CR scale is exponential, so +3 CR is supposed to be a really significant improvement, no matter the initial CR. For +3 CR you can alternatively get the same monster three times. Means three times the HP (nearly 2,100 for mogarus) and three times the damage output (and other offense) as long as all of them are up.

Any templates with CR increase must compete with that - hence +1 templates like advanced are already strong.

I actually barely touched what a Half-Dragon Advanced Young Giant Fighter 1 Mogaru can do. He also gains +4 Wis, +6 to Dex, Int, and Cha, +12 to Str, and +7 Nat Armor. He also gains one bonus combat feat, so let’s make it one that a normal Mogaru has, and give him Flyby Attack in its place, since he now has a fly speed of 200 ft.

Also, in addition to the ability score increases stated above, he still has the following ability score adjustments he can make in any manner that aids him in his role as a fighter; +4, +2, +2, +0, -2.

So the minus two will go to Cha (+4 Cha now), the +4 will go to Str (plus 16 to Str now), and the +2s to Dex and Wis (+6 Wis and +8 Dex now). Oh and he gets so many new skill points now. Like over 100 if I remember correctly, because the Half-Dragon template changes the skill points per racial HD to 6+Int Mod instead of the 2+Int Mod it was before.

So his AC goes up to 58, meaning the normal Mogaru’s can actually miss against him now, having to roll a 12 or higher to hit. He also now has 35 ranks in Acrobatics, so he can avoid AoO when using Flyby Attack.

As for his Breath Weapon, it is now impossible for the normal Mogaru’s to make their Reflex save against his, whereas he can make it on a roll of 14.

Further more, because they won’t be able to reach him due to Flyby Attack strategy, they can only target him with the Breath Weapon and Firebolts abilities, whereas he can hit with a Greater Vital Strike Power Attack every turn as well as his Breath Weapon and Firebolts.

Basically what I’m saying is yes, he is way too powerful for a CR 31 creature, as beings that are just a mere 3 CR less can’t even touch him.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
way too powerful for a CR 31 creature

Are we playing the same game?


Tick swarm (CR9) or fiendish tick swarm (CR10)


A pugwampi with a potion of invisibility has very nearly wiped my players, Twice.


Stacking templates is kind of cheating, though.

Sure, a Young Mummified Idiot is CR 1/3 just like your run-of-the-mill Idiot, but skirts the downsides of the negative template by using the benefits of the positive template (like a "Young Giant <creature>" would).

Also, consider the Half-Fiend Repeatedly-Drained Young Giant Human Adept 1 and the Giant Giantkin (Hillblood) Pickin Pod-Spawned Cleric 1.

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