+5 scythe


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So just purely speculation here but and interesting thought, what happens to weapons that are more than one dice normally? Does it double every time? Does a +5 Scythe be (assuming that a scythe is still 2d4 damage) 6d4 or 10d4 damage?


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It's looking like all weapons that were multiple dice are now just single dice. Greatsword for example is 1d12 instead of 2d6.


If it was 2d4 it should go to 10d4...but all signs point to it being 1d8 (or whatever).


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The grim reaper previewed at paizocon has a +5 scythe that does 6d10, so a standard scythe must be a d10 now.


specimen700102 wrote:
The grim reaper previewed at paizocon has a +5 scythe that does 6d10, so a standard scythe must be a d10 now.

Great catch!


I thought the maximum amount of Potency runes a weapon could have would be +3... Don't remember where I hears this, but was weeks ago.


ChibiNyan wrote:
I thought the maximum amount of Potency runes a weapon could have would be +3... Don't remember where I hears this, but was weeks ago.

I think that is the maximum potency a master quality weapon can have. Legendary can have up to +5.

Liberty's Edge

This combined with the Redcap entry also gives us a good idea of what happens when you use an oversized weapon somehow:

You get an extra weapon die of damage.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

This combined with the Redcap entry also gives us a good idea of what happens when you use an oversized weapon somehow:

You get an extra weapon die of damage.

So, a weapons's damage die increase by 1 for every size category above Medium (like how 5th Ed does it)?

I'm sure PCs will not be able to use oversize weapons ala the redcap, as that's been a monster feature since 3rd Ed.


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The reaper's scythe is also keen and has deadly 3d10, while a redcap's is deadly 1d10 so maybe the keen weapon property increases the number of damage die for deadly and even gives non-deadly weapons deadly.


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Weather Report wrote:

So, a weapons's damage die increase by 1 for every size category above Medium (like how 5th Ed does it)?

I'm sure PCs will not be able to use oversize weapons ala the redcap, as that's been a monster feature since 3rd Ed.

Considering it's a thing players could do since 3e (Monkey Grip in 3e, and Titan Mauler in Pathfinder) and that the Iconic Barbarian of Pathfinder uses an oversized weapon it would be rather unfortunate if it was monster only (removing the barbarian iconic would probably be seen as a poor move).


Milo v3 wrote:
Weather Report wrote:

So, a weapons's damage die increase by 1 for every size category above Medium (like how 5th Ed does it)?

I'm sure PCs will not be able to use oversize weapons ala the redcap, as that's been a monster feature since 3rd Ed.

Considering it's a thing players could do since 3e (Monkey Grip in 3e, and Titan Mauler in Pathfinder) and that the Iconic Barbarian of Pathfinder uses an oversized weapon it would be rather unfortunate if it was monster only (removing the barbarian iconic would probably be seen as a poor move).

Oh, yeah, might be possible via some sort of feature or feat, but as standard, the redcap's are able to due to a special quality. I had a half-orc barbarian/ranger in my 3rd Ed Planescape campaign dual-wielding Large bastard swords. I can see them maybe wanting to tone that back.


Weren't size/dmg differences between weapons removed? at least small weapons don't deal less dmg then medium sized (It was mentioned in the weapons blog) - therefore titan mauler, monkey grip etc wouldn't make sense

Which is somewhat unfortunate - sometimes I like characters with comically huge weapons
(And titan mauler was totally useless after the errata)


Seisho wrote:
Weren't size/dmg differences between weapons removed? at least small weapons don't deal less dmg then medium sized (It was mentioned in the weapons blog)

Yes, like 5th Ed, they have folded Small weapons into Medium, but Large+ weapons are most likely different.


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Seisho wrote:
Weren't size/dmg differences between weapons removed? at least small weapons don't deal less dmg then medium sized (It was mentioned in the weapons blog) - therefore titan mauler, monkey grip etc wouldn't make sense

You can remove size differences from Small and Medium, without removing it from other size categories.

Quote:
Which is somewhat unfortunate - sometimes I like characters with comically huge weapons

It also means the iconic barbarian doesn't make any sense.

Quote:
(And titan mauler was totally useless after the errata)

Actually the opposite, since the errata added in text that allowed you to actually wield two-handed weapons for creatures that are one-size larger than you.

Liberty's Edge

Seisho wrote:
Weren't size/dmg differences between weapons removed? at least small weapons don't deal less dmg then medium sized (It was mentioned in the weapons blog) - therefore titan mauler, monkey grip etc wouldn't make sense

What they seem to have done based on the Redcap is as follows:

-All weapons of the same type do the same damage if wielded by a character sized appropriately for them.
-However, if you somehow get the ability to wield weapons one size category up, you get an extra weapon die to damage (so the Redcap, a small creature, wielding a Medium Scythe does 2d10 with it).

Of course, that's based on one monster which might be an exception to the rules. But it's interesting if true. It may also come at some cost (not adding your Str mod to damage with the weapon seems to be the Redcap's price of admission).

Or maybe the Redcap just gets an extra damage die on everything. Who knows.


specimen700102 wrote:
The reaper's scythe is also keen and has deadly 3d10, while a redcap's is deadly 1d10 so maybe the keen weapon property increases the number of damage die for deadly and even gives non-deadly weapons deadly.

You have keen eyes.

Liberty's Edge

Isn't the extra die of the Redcap because its scythe is expert quality?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd welcome clarification of how various buffs that affect damage dice interact. A few campaigns back we had a strengthened, enlarged monk with... something else going on (extra long arms?), and between a table full of programmers and other smart people, we could not work out what he was supposed to roll.

It sounds like the whole damage dice system is getting overhauled, so I hope and expect they're considering odd buff interactions as part of that. Having a straight track which different feats/spells/abilities all fall on, rather than each ability making up its own unique way of altering the dice, would be the way to go.


Paladinosaur wrote:
Isn't the extra die of the Redcap because its scythe is expert quality?

I think only magic items grant additional damage die each + = 1 extra die.


Milo v3 wrote:
Weather Report wrote:

So, a weapons's damage die increase by 1 for every size category above Medium (like how 5th Ed does it)?

I'm sure PCs will not be able to use oversize weapons ala the redcap, as that's been a monster feature since 3rd Ed.

Considering it's a thing players could do since 3e (Monkey Grip in 3e, and Titan Mauler in Pathfinder) and that the Iconic Barbarian of Pathfinder uses an oversized weapon it would be rather unfortunate if it was monster only (removing the barbarian iconic would probably be seen as a poor move).

Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.


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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.

Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.


Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.

Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.

Silver Crusade

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Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.

Maybe Barbarians being able to wield BFS' will be a Core ability?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.

Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.


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Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.

So that giant sized bastard sword is treated as a medium greatsword for gameplay purposes. This seems like a real non issue...


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Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.

It's not that hard to retool that so she took a giant shortsword/longsword, which works as a greatsword for human sized people.


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.
It's not that hard to retool that so she took a giant shortsword/longsword, which works as a greatsword for human sized people.

I think trhe problem here is that it's said she can only use it in rage, so yeah, I would be really surprised if there wasn't AT THE VERY LEAST a rage power that let you use over-sized weapons.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

What they seem to have done based on the Redcap is as follows:

-All weapons of the same type do the same damage if wielded by a character sized appropriately for them.
-However, if you somehow get the ability to wield weapons one size category up, you get an extra weapon die to damage (so the Redcap, a small creature, wielding a Medium Scythe does 2d10 with it).

This would actually make no sense for creatures of small and smaller size. A medium creature and a small creature both wield the same weapon. And yet, somehow, the small creature is doing extra damage? Does it scale further with more sizes? If somehow, someway, a fine-sized creature managed to wield a medium size weapon, would it be doing four dice extra of damage above the creature that such a weapon was actually designed for?


Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.

Large longsword is equivalent to Medium greatsword, so I fail to see the point here.


Elfteiroh wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.
It's not that hard to retool that so she took a giant shortsword/longsword, which works as a greatsword for human sized people.
I think trhe problem here is that it's said she can only use it in rage, so yeah, I would be really surprised if there wasn't AT THE VERY LEAST a rage power that let you use over-sized weapons.

I'm pretty sure iconics will change their abilities and backgrounds slightly to fit the new edition.

We don't even know if barbarians will have rage yet, for example. Yes, it's a pretty safe bet, but it could be a completely different mechanic. Seelah no longer has Smite Evil as we knew it, it's a reaction now.


Elfteiroh wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.
It's not that hard to retool that so she took a giant shortsword/longsword, which works as a greatsword for human sized people.
I think trhe problem here is that it's said she can only use it in rage, so yeah, I would be really surprised if there wasn't AT THE VERY LEAST a rage power that let you use over-sized weapons.
Amiri Background wrote:
She values her oversized sword (even though she can only truly wield it properly when her blood rage takes her), but never speaks of the circumstances that forced her to flee her homeland. Some things are better left unsaid.

She can use it normally (or she would have been built as a switch-hitter), it's just flavored that the Rage bonuses compensate the oversize penalty, and I remember someone from Paizo confirming that concept, which means no, her rage isn't technically truly required.

Silver Crusade

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Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.
Large longsword is equivalent to Medium greatsword, so I fail to see the point here.

Probably cause you moved the goalposts. You were saying just give her a Greatsword, which would change her backstory with her weapon, and now you’re saying to give her a giant Longsword to treat as a Greatsword, which is more in tune with her backstory.


Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Iconic characters can change weapons and still be the iconics. Valeros did it. Harsk did it. Why not Amiri? Just change it to a greatsword and call it good.
Because for Amiri the significance of her weapon a pretty big part of her backstory. She doesn't just use a massive sword because it deals lots of damage.
Greatswords are also massive. So massive they require two hands to use. Just like a Large Bastard Sword. There's nothing really stopping the developers from doing this without ignoring backstory.
Um, yeah it would. She got that sword from the Giant that was using it. Giants wouldn't be using an undersized sword.
Large longsword is equivalent to Medium greatsword, so I fail to see the point here.
Probably cause you moved the goalposts. You were saying just give her a Greatsword, which would change her backstory with her weapon, and now you’re saying to give her a giant Longsword to treat as a Greatsword, which is more in tune with her backstory.

My point there was that using a different weapon that is oversized just to fit the backstory (using the Large Longsword/Medium Greatsword example) isn't a very compelling argument when you have two weapons that are statistically identical.

Liberty's Edge

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Mark Seifter specifically noted in one of the Blog threads (I forget which...maybe the Fighter one?) that there are too many people who like oversized weapons for them to remove it from the game.


wuxia sized weaponry is something a lot of people really like.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mark Seifter specifically noted in one of the Blog threads (I forget which...maybe the Fighter one?) that there are too many people who like oversized weapons for them to remove it from the game.

I like that, sounds a bit like option for fighter and barbarian too me


Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mark Seifter specifically noted in one of the Blog threads (I forget which...maybe the Fighter one?) that there are too many people who like oversized weapons for them to remove it from the game.

Now that you say this, I remember seeing a post like that!


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Mark Seifter specifically noted in one of the Blog threads (I forget which...maybe the Fighter one?) that there are too many people who like oversized weapons for them to remove it from the game.

I really feel like you should be wearing a cape.


gustavo iglesias wrote:
wuxia sized weaponry is something a lot of people really like.

That would be Anime/Manga-sized (Wuxia films do not feature longboard-sized weapons), and is something a lot of people really hate.


Weather Report wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
wuxia sized weaponry is something a lot of people really like.
That would be Anime/Manga-sized (Wuxia films do not feature longboard-sized weapons), and is something a lot of people really hate.

Some people like it, some people hate it - if you don't like it don't take the option.


Seisho wrote:
Weather Report wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
wuxia sized weaponry is something a lot of people really like.
That would be Anime/Manga-sized (Wuxia films do not feature longboard-sized weapons), and is something a lot of people really hate.
Some people like it, some people hate it - if you don't like it don't take the option.

Well, I am sure that a lot of people see cartoonish shenanigans in the system and that sort of ruins the immersion for them. I can understand that sentiment and I could recommend other more “grounded” systems and settings. At the end of he day, I think the designers are the ones who get to decide on the exact tone of the game based on their own sense of aesthetics even where they might differ from my own.


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Weather Report wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
wuxia sized weaponry is something a lot of people really like.
That would be Anime/Manga-sized (Wuxia films do not feature longboard-sized weapons), and is something a lot of people really hate.

Xianxia and Xuanhuan tend to have oversized weapons used in them , technically they aren't Wuxia, but people tend to confuse the 3 genres and they actually fit the setting of pathfinder more than Wuxia does.

So yes, oversized weapon are something appropriate for PF2E.


willuwontu wrote:
Weather Report wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
wuxia sized weaponry is something a lot of people really like.
That would be Anime/Manga-sized (Wuxia films do not feature longboard-sized weapons), and is something a lot of people really hate.

Xianxia and Xuanhuan tend to have oversized weapons used in them , technically they aren't Wuxia, but people tend to confuse the 3 genres and they actually fit the setting of pathfinder more than Wuxia does.

So yes, oversized weapon are something appropriate for PF2E.

Yes, sofa-sized weaponry is more common than people-on-wires in 3rd Ed/PF1.


Weather Report wrote:
willuwontu wrote:
Weather Report wrote:
gustavo iglesias wrote:
wuxia sized weaponry is something a lot of people really like.
That would be Anime/Manga-sized (Wuxia films do not feature longboard-sized weapons), and is something a lot of people really hate.

Xianxia and Xuanhuan tend to have oversized weapons used in them , technically they aren't Wuxia, but people tend to confuse the 3 genres and they actually fit the setting of pathfinder more than Wuxia does.

So yes, oversized weapon are something appropriate for PF2E.

Yes, sofa-sized weaponry is more common than people-on-wires in 3rd Ed/PF1.

It's more of wuxia genre tends to not have spellcasting or other similar mystical things (ex gods granting you power), instead focusing on the body training and inner qi.

Which could be fine as a standalone setting with no spellcasters or divine personages in a homebrew setting, but for base pathfinder where those are a thing, Xianxia and Xuanhuan, which do include similar such things to spellcasting and divine powers, are far more appropriate than wuxia.

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