Come one, come all to one of my Pathfinder projects I've been working on for the past while!
If you're interested in playing the most hyper-powered and over the top campaign imaginable, you're in the right place.
I mostly want to gauge interest on the boards before I post an official recruitment thread. There's a lot of changes to sort through here and I want to make sure everything is clear and any other adjustments that need to be made do.
I've spent some time using my modified rules to make comic heroes and trying to make sure things balance out (for ultimate drama too!) and now I'm excited to see what other people come up with.
-The game will utilize Gestalt and Mythic rules.
-Elephant in the Room Feat Tax fixes are in play.
-Max HP per level.
-I am removing Base Attack Bonuses and adding a 7th stat: Fighting. You add Fighting to both AC and all attacks as well as CMB and CMD. If you are denied your Dex bonus to AC, you also lose your Fighting bonus.
-I am removing the need to manage gold and equipment and adding an 8th stat: Wealth. It functions similarly to d20 modern but it can't be used to buy magic items (unless, of course, you're flavoring it as part of your powers like an Iron Man type character with a magic suit of armor). Flavor is flavor.
-I will be using the Armor as Damage Reduction rules but with some changes.
--The type of armor you're wearing is strictly cosmetic; what the armor is made out of is what provides the DR bonus. (Steel is 3/-, Mithral is 4/-, just ask).
--You have an amount of DR equal to your Constitution modifier or your armor bonus, whichever is higher.
--Weapons can ignore an equivalent amount of DR based on its material or you can ignore DR up to your Strength modifier, whichever is higher.
-Everyone receives Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat and their unarmed damage increases as a monk of 4 levels lower. Monks deal unarmed damage as if they were 4 levels higher.
-There are now 8 stats, and the game is 35 point-buy.
-Modifiers are now calculated differently; every point above or below 10 is a +/- 1.
-Anything above 14 is considered superhuman. All this means is, at least for physical stats, have a fluff reason that you're superhuman in that ability.
-For every +1 you have in Dexterity or Strength, you can add 5 to you base land movement speed. For every 2, you can add 5 to your other speeds.
-For every 2 Strength modifier you have, your jump distance is doubled (but you can still only move your movement speed in a given round).
-At 10 strength, you have the carrying/lifting capacity shown here. Every point in Strength above 10 doubles this (200 max at 11, 400 at 12, etc).
-A wealth roll is required when buying something in-game. Your result represents your ability to financially support the purchase. When rolling wealth to purchase something, you add double your wealth modifier.
5 Wealth is a typical peasant while 10 represents someone in the merchant class. 15+ represent the extremely wealthy noble types, and 20 is usually reserved for the heir of a king's fortune.
Sample DCs:
DC 5: a few silver pieces
DC 10: A standard weapon (a few gold)
DC 15: high quality weapons and armor, maybe some masterwork gear (100 gold)
DC 20: A very nice masterwork weapon (500 gold)
DC 25: Buying a merchant-class house outright (5,000 gold)
DC 30: A large plot of land and a small keep (50,000 gold).
You can take a 10 on a wealth roll. Failure means that you/your estate can't easily spare the funds. You can raise the result of any wealth roll you've failed by taking Wealth damage an equivalent amount to the amount you raised the result to a maximum of four. This damage heals over time normally but can't be healed through any other means. Wealth also can't be the target of ability score damage directly (though you may lose wealth if you somehow lose part of your estate or you are robbed).
This game will be set in a world in which magic is typically totally off limits to normal people so magic items are not available for purchase (they're artifacts you can find and will have powerful and usually unique effects).
-35 Point-Buy
-All races can choose two stats to receive a +2. All secondary racial abilities remain the same.
-Two Traits, a third with a drawback.
-Starting equipment doesn't matter as long as it's mundane. Discuss it with me if you aren't sure. Make sure to have a fluff reason for starting with anything more expensive than your character could otherwise normally afford.
-You don't begin with a mythic tier but I'd like to know what path you plan to take.
-Background skills of course.
-Variant Multiclassing is cool.
-Fractional advancement in effect.
-Any official Paizo content. I have enough managing to do without having to learn a bunch of 3pp stuff as well.
-Fluff: go crazy here. Who are you? Why/how are you superpowered? I eat up superhero origin stories so go crazy.
--I also want a separate bit letting me know what sort of theme you're going for. When the final party is assembled, I will likely hand out theme-inspired minor powers to really get you into that superhero niche you're looking for.
Disgustingly high-powered super hero cheese? I'm here for it honestly. Seen Infinity War twice now and supers is still on my mind. Curious how the wealth rules and magic item decisions would interact with crafting then; would Craft Wondrous Item just be kept completely off the table given the circumstances?
@The Frightmare
Normally I would say that magic crafting feats are off the table but I'd want to add a qualifier; if your theme is a builder (like Iron Man) and you're comfortable with the idea of going on side quests to get the materials needed to make crazy stuff, then that could be a lot of fun to work in.
Interesting. My idea was more in a Doctor Strange "lots of cool magic toys" vein, but that's just a first glance gut idea so hardly something I'd want to think about too much or get too deep into building around. I'd wait for proper recruitment and some actual concept to take shape before worrying too much about that.
That's definitely a possibility. If you can flavor some of your powers as revolving around magic toys that you already have (like Strange's cape), then I'm all for it. If you want something like the Eye of Agamotto, then that's a plot-worthy artifact for sure.
Sounds interesting, just wondering if full-BAB classes get anything in return for removing BAB as a thing? It seems like a straight buff to casters/low-BAB classes.
This sounds awesome.
@Keante
The point-buy itself isn't modified. Normal point-buy rules are in effect except now there are two additional abilities and you have 35 points to spend.
The major change is how modifiers are calculated. Now, instead of +/- 1 for every two you are above or below 10, respectively, it's +/- 1 for every one above or below 10 your ability is.
For example, if I have 14 Strength, my Strength modifier is +4 instead of +2. 20? I have a +10.
I hope that was clear. I may need to reword that in the ability scores section.
@Alpaca
Full-BaB classes don't get anything in return. The primary reasons for this are because Strength and Dexterity now increase the power of the character disproportionately compared to standard Pathfinder (two stats virtually all high BaB classes will invest heavily in) because they are what allows you to get around DR, add to initiative, increase movement speed, etc. Requiring martial characters to invest some into Fighting lightens the load on Strength and Dexterity (and simultaneously allows for both a Bruiser theme (like Superman or the Hulk, high strength and lower fighting) as well as a martial artist theme (higher fighting and lower strength like Batman or Captain America).
This also means that casters have the ability to invest in fighting to mitigate how much they're losing by having a lower strength/dexterity. Or they can choose to completely ignore it if they decide they will never physically fight. Could make for a cool touch attack-capable caster.
The way I see it, gestalt characters usually have at least one side full BaB anyway. I'm hoping that being able to buy a better BaB will encourage people to not be as concerned with making sure they have a high BaB class.
Does that make sense? That was my reasoning behind the change anyway.
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@Keante
The point-buy itself isn't modified. Normal point-buy rules are in effect except now there are two additional abilities and you have 35 points to spend.
The major change is how modifiers are calculated. Now, instead of +/- 1 for every two you are above or below 10, respectively, it's +/- 1 for every one above or below 10 your ability is.
For example, if I have 14 Strength, my Strength modifier is +4 instead of +2. 20? I have a +10.
I hope that was clear. I may need to reword that in the ability scores section.
Ah, I get it now. When I read the +/- 1 right after the line about point buy my brain was thinking that you were talking about the point buy cost--as in buying 1 to 1 (like Starfinder) instead of the increased cost of higher ability scores. I would suggest one additional sentence that clarifies nicely:
Modifiers are now calculated differently; every point above or below 10 is a +/- 1. Put another way, subtract 10 from the ability score and you have the ability modifier.
Interested, GM. Once you open recruitment, please let us know.
@Keante
Thanks! I'll definitely work on making that a bit more clear. I'll have to keep the info in Campaign Info so I can edit it as further clarification is needed.
That +2 to two abilities replaces what the race typically gets. Normal members of any race you choose are still going to be normal powered so I consider those ability score adjustments just for being a super. Also, if you give up the bonus feat and skill point as a human, you can get a +2 to a third ability of your choice.
Plus I want to remove the issue of "well, I'd like to be an orc wizard but I can't because they get a -2 to int" that is all too common.
@All
I'm beginning to think there is plenty of interest to at least get the party started.
I'll begin writing up the fluff to the campaign and ideally have an official recruitment thread up tonight or tomorrow. In the meantime, feel free to continue asking any questions you might have here!
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Are Fighting and Wealth treated in all ways like ability scores? Meaning both scores default to 10 before you've spent anything in point buy, and when you're adding Fighting to an attack or to AC it's the modifier you add, not the score.
I hope my queries aren't an annoyance--I'm hoping to catch things that people might be confused over.
Are Fighting and Wealth treated in all ways like ability scores? Meaning both scores default to 10 before you've spent anything in point buy, and when you're adding Fighting to an attack or to AC it's the modifier you add, not the score.
I hope my queries aren't an annoyance--I'm hoping to catch things that people might be confused over.
That is all accurate. Though, bear in mind, that normal Wealth rolls to buy things add double your modifier to the roll (so if you have a Wealth modifier of +5 and you want to buy something, you roll 1d20+10).
Additionally, and I should have mentioned this, there may be some situations in which Wealth can be used in place of other abilities. The best example that comes to mind is using a bribe or flaunting your affluence to roll a Diplomacy using Wealth instead of Charisma. I'm a huge fan of playing things as they make sense and the rule of cool so I'm open to all sorts of possibilities like that.
Edit: and no worries! These questions are exactly what I was hoping for.
One thing I feel I should ask before getting too deep into feeling out some of the many ideas I could have for this is, what would starting level be?
One thing I feel I should ask before getting too deep into feeling out some of the many ideas I could have for this is, what would starting level be?
1st level. I definitely want you guys to be just now dipping your toes into the whole superhero thing. You'll be immensely powerful but growing into true godlike status throughout the game.
I should also note that the primary things I'll be interested in is an interesting theme and origin story (as well as creatively using the system to create and flavor the powers you have). I'll concern myself with the specifics of people's statblocks once a party has assembled.
Oh! What pool of races may be selected from?
I'm open to pretty much anything Paizo. Within reason, of course. Fewer than 15 RP is a good rule of thumb.
Interested for sure. My kobold monk/rogue build might finally have found his home!
Have you ever seen The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen? The vibe I get isn't totally unlike that. More fantasy and less tech but close.
There are also old tropes that aren't difficult to imagine. Dr. Jekyll is the OG Bruce Banner after all. I could reimagine Iron Man as a Wizard/Alchemist who crafted his own magical intelligent set of armor named Jarvis using a magical artifact (arc reactor).
Ultimately, I've spent too much time thinking about it. Haha
I'm having a hard time brainstorming character ideas. Pathfinder style fantasy and superheroes feel so divorced in my head. Anybody have some thematic idea seeds that might get me jump-started?
I've... got quite a few more than I should have. But I can lend you a few that I've made!
Dreamweaver - Originally a shiver creator in Korvosa's underworld, he was bitten by his own dream spider and sent into a deep comatose sleep. In it, he saw a vision of Korvosa clean, protected, and corruption free. When he awoke, he believed it was a gift from Desna and swore off shiver, vowing to make his dream of a better Korvosa a reality, rather than simply escape to it in a dream, donning a suit of yellow and blue to match the dream spiders he worked with. (Mechanically, I used the Unchained Rogue with spring-loaded wrist sheathes and spider sacs for web launchers, and took Unarmed Strike. You might have a better combo.)
Star Catcher - An orphan from Numeria kidnapped by the Technic League for gruesome experimentation, he was affixed with with a massive arm of metal that unwittingly housed a rudimentary AI that bonded with him and helped him escape his captors. Now he travels as the Star Catcher, a hero with an arm that can launch towards evil doers and supposedly strong enough to catch a falling star. (This one uses the Constructed Pugilist archetype with the Grapnel Arm upgrade and the Possessed Hand feat tree to simulate his AI arm).
The Huntsman - A retired (old age) militia captain whose village's new mayor is a corrupt and spoiled brat of a noble who supposedly poisoned his father to seize control. With the rising taxes and corruption among the guard, the old captain has decided to don a mask, grab his trusty bow, and bring his faithful bull mastiff into action, both to right the wrongs the new mayor is causing, and protect the family he spent so many years fighting for. (This one is actually not originally a hero, but it works just as well. He starts off in the old age category with the Huntmaster archetype and feat, using his bow to fight from afar while his dog companion deals with melee threats.)
All great starting points.
Though you do remind me to bring something up; for what it's worth, your heroes don't necessarily have to be caped and wearing a mask and all that. I am also on board with anti-hero types. If you want to make a Deadpool, make a Deadpool.
Dot. Thinking about things. Perhaps a kineticist monk...
NIne concepts deep and in way over my head thinking about how many different possibilities are in front of me, and one thing that's got me curious is if you would be willing to houserule an "unchained Ninja" of sorts that just adds UnRogue's Finesse Training to the alternate class. It's a class that's come up in a few of the ideas I've kicked around and figured asking couldn't hurt.
NIne concepts deep and in way over my head thinking about how many different possibilities are in front of me, and one thing that's got me curious is if you would be willing to houserule an "unchained Ninja" of sorts that just adds UnRogue's Finesse Training to the alternate class. It's a class that's come up in a few of the ideas I've kicked around and figured asking couldn't hurt.
Oh sure, I'm a big fan of the changes made to rogues with Unchained and ninjas could use the extra love too. They'll gain Finesse Training as an Unchained Rogue of equal level.
It's worth noting that the DR rules still apply when it comes to getting around some DR with strength even if you're getting dexterity to damage though. You'll just need to use stronger material weapons (the best of which you can get at the beginning of the game is Adamantine for a DC 20 Wealth roll and ignores 5 DR). In order to begin play with something, you must be able to take a 10 in the Wealth check to buy it.
All stuff to make sure I mention in the future.
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The Huntsman - A retired (old age) militia captain whose village's new mayor...
This one has got me thinking about a grizzled cleric or inquisitor...not sure if it would be better if his deity is someone like Erastil for whom "gruff" could be a middle name, or someone like Shelyn for an interesting contrast between the deity's persona and the character's personality.
I'm definitely interested in this, oh man. After Deadpool and Infinity War I am definitely feeling superheroes, and gestalt is always a ton of fun. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread and seeing what kind of concepts I come up with, for sure.
Oh, I loves me some super hero games. I'm definitely interested. What level were you thinking about having characters start at? I didn't see anything in the character creation spoiler on it (but I might have missed it).
EDIT: I found the answer further down. Looking forward to the recruitment thread!
Another weird unchained ruling I'm curious about, as I end up with even more concepts I really like and want to figure out which ones I want to dig into.
I'm liking the idea of a Barb/Kineticist who's working some kind of "wild, primal avatar of nature" sort of deal to take a twist on the usual element-based hero. Core Barbarian has access to a Rage Power called Moment of Clarity where they can ignore the penalties and benefits of a rage for a turn, which feeds into a power called Perfect Clarity, which in turn is a prereq for the Mad Magic feat that could let someone cast spells inside of a rage using Moment of Clarity while still getting the benefits of Rage. UnBarb has Perfect Clarity on its list, but its new prerequisite is Calm Stance, which does the same thing that Moment of Clarity does, but is now a stance because UnBarb has stances now. Would I theoretically be able to use Mad Magic to interact with Calm Stance the same way it works with Moment of Clarity? I'm liking the fluff I've come up with for the character enough for it to be high on my list, but it's a weird interaction and I don't want to get too far ahead of myself before I know the combo can work.
Another weird unchained ruling I'm curious about...
I'm about 95% sure I understand exactly what you're asking.
If the issue is simply a renaming, then go for it. The way I understand it, Calm Stance is exactly the same anyway (aside from stance) and I'm more than willing to allow Moment of Clarity and Calm Stance to be be interchangeable for the purpose of Mad Magic.
Also!
@All
Official recruitment is up! It can be found here.