Morlamaw tank: Tailstrong


Advice

Shadow Lodge

I've been looking at two concepts, and think I'm going to smash them together and see if it works. The first is This Fine Fellow, complete with catchphrase.

The second is a Morlamaw from a particular scenario.

Note that Armstrong, while a strong inspiration, is just that - I'm not trying to actually recreate him. Really, he's just a flavored melee fighter / tank. So, here we go.

Tailstrong
NG Soldier 11, Star Knight (Knights of Golarion) Archetype
Mercenary theme
Armor Storm Fighting Style (Blitz secondary)
STR 24 (17 start, 1 theme, 2 advance, 4 augment)
Dex 14 (12 start, 2 advance)
Con 17 (11 start, 2 racial, 4 advance)
Int 10 (10 start)
Wis 10 (10 start, -2 racial, 2 advance)
Cha 16 (10 start, 2 racial, 4 advance)

Levels
1 Hammer Fist | Toughness
2 Armor Mastery
3 Weapon Spec, Melee Striker | Weapon Focus
4 Challenge
5 Enhanced Tank | Enhanced Resistance (Kinetic)
6 Holy Strikes
7 Armored Advantage | Extra Resolve
8 Step Up
9 Smash Through, Rapid Response | Spellbane
10 Deflect Projectiles
11 Soldier's Onslaught, Sonic Resonance | Diehard

Wields the biggest melee weapon he can get for the level (well, probably every 2 or 3 levels actually). Has a heavy weapon for when he really needs range.

Armor mods I like are Haste Circuit, Jetpack, Deflective Reinforcement, and Force Field - though I won't be getting all at once until at least level 9 armor.

I've still got a +2 augmentation floating, I'm not sure where to assign it.

I'd also like to get Step-up&Strike in there, but I'm not sure what to take out. I'm also not sure of the order for the other feats.

Yes, I know the 20' move speed is painful, but I really like the Armor Storm abilities. By level 9 I'll be up to 50', but it'll take a while to get there.

So, how do I make this guy better?

The Exchange

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'm a bit confused why you went armor storm if you aren't using powered armor or it appears the morlamaws natural attacks.

Shadow Lodge

Armor Storm's Hammer Fist gives me a really cool 'unarmed' attack, Enhanced Tank lets me take an extra armor slot which could be a power armor only slot (hopefully by July we'll have some good ones), and Smash Through lets me push people around which seems very thematic.

Blitz lets me go faster. And eventually heal a bit. I'll admit it's all useful stuff that contributes, but it feels like boring numbers instead of cool stuff.

Guard would be another useful style, but not as much as the others.

I'll admit I'm at a bit of a loss on how to make the natural attacks useful. I'd be happy to incorporate them somehow, but I'm not sure how.

The Exchange

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think the best method to make unarmed attacks viable is through Improved Unarmed Strike and Ring of Fangs from DS2 which gives you the boosting base damage and then 2x specialization, it does cost your magic item slot but I think its worth the tradeoff.

If you're not beholden to a right now build, there's supposed to be class options for every class in Armory, so those might give you more options for Fighting Style (if they're not just gear boosts.)

I would also consider actually using powered armor.

Exo-Guardians

Shaudius wrote:
I'm a bit confused why you went armor storm if you aren't using powered armor or it appears the morlamaws natural attacks.

Hold on a sec.

Armor Storm actually works best WITHOUT power armor, at least at early levels. Hammer Fist benefits extra from Melee Striker (+2 damage extra, to be specific), and is a better choice than Natural Weapons until 6th level unless you have Improved Unarmed Attacks, at which point it's mostly academic.

The current power armor situation is so dire that Armor Storm soldiers built to take advantage of Hammer Fist actually take a nerf to Strength to use the available power armor suits. Maybe this will change with the Armory coming out in July, but until then, it doesn't make sense to go power armor unless you want to put minimal strength necessary in for the feat (Str 11, upgrade to 13 at level 5), so you can actually take advantage of the extra strength.

Keep in mind that everything else that Armor Storm gives works just as well for heavy armor. Bonus armor slot at 5, bonus to bull rush at 9, extra damage to weapons on the armor (which includes the Hammer Fist) at 13, and two attacks with the mobility feats at 17. None of that is power armor specific.

As an Armor Storm Vesk, I routinely do crazy levels of both tanking and damage, and until the power armor situation improves, I would never even consider putting on the level 5 battle harness... that's -3 strength for me! Golemforged III is where it's at right now.

Shadow Lodge

I'll be playing him next Thursday, so he'll be locked in soon after that. I can see some benefits to the powered armor, but it doesn't really fit the image I'm going for.

I'll try to track down info on that ring.

The Exchange

Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Zoggy Grav wrote:


Armor Storm actually works best WITHOUT power armor, at least at early levels. Hammer Fist benefits extra from Melee Striker (+2 damage extra, to be specific), and is a better choice than Natural Weapons until 6th level unless you have Improved Unarmed Attacks, at which point it's mostly academic.

Hammer Fist is actually a trap often, imo, the true benefit of Armor Storm is the Powered Armor feat for free with the extra (and discounted) extra armor slot. You're pretty much always better off with IUS and a Ring of Fangs over Hammer Fist and just taking the Melee Striker gear boost.

Zoggy Grav wrote:


The current power armor situation is so dire that Armor Storm soldiers built to take advantage of Hammer Fist actually take a nerf to Strength to use the available power armor suits. Maybe this will change with the Armory coming out in July, but until then, it doesn't make sense to go power armor unless you want to put minimal strength necessary in for the feat (Str 11, upgrade to 13 at level 5), so you can actually take advantage of the extra strength.

Strongly disagree with this assessment on powered armor. The only two current things wrong with powered armor are a) too many gaps in the curve and b) having to switch batteries out too often.

a) will definitely be fixed by armory and is a currently overblown issue anyway and b) isn't actually an issue at all at the levels where the armor becomes super battery intensive since batteries are trivially cheap based on the WBL curve.

Zoggy Grav wrote:


As an Armor Storm Vesk, I routinely do crazy levels of both tanking and damage, and until the power armor situation improves, I would never even consider putting on the level 5 battle harness... that's -3 strength for me! Golemforged III is where it's at right now.

They key benefit of powered armor is the ability to tank strength, there are odd levels right now where this is a net negative, but it lets you boost things like int (to help with the skills that soldiers severely lack) or con which makes you a better tank, wisdom to shore up will saves, any number of things.

Exo-Guardians

Shaudius wrote:


Hammer Fist is actually a trap often, imo, the true benefit of Armor Storm is the Powered Armor feat for free with the extra (and discounted) extra armor slot. You're pretty much always better off with IUS and a Ring of Fangs over Hammer Fist and just taking the Melee Striker gear boost.

Ah the Ring of Fangs. I don't really like that thing; it basically cheapens Natural Weapons. Honestly it should just be +1.5x like the vesk to let other people pay to get the vesk's natural advantage (same as stuff like darkvision).

Anyway, I think you have a point from a purely mechanical standpoint, but the main benefit, I've found, with a Hammer Fist strength build is that you have a completely free attack with high base damage. The "free" bit is pretty important in Society play, because it lets you upgrade your other gear with your limited funds. At level 1, my Hammer Fist minimum damage was 7; at level 5, I still haven't spent a dime on weapons over level 1, and I still have a minimum damage of 15 per hit. Because I have these savings and with some judicious boon use, I was able to afford a personal upgrade and level 7 heavy armor.

Quote:
They key benefit of powered armor is the ability to tank strength, there are odd levels right now where this is a net negative, but it lets you boost things like int (to help with the...

The Strength given by the armor is less than what you could simply have naturally through point allocation and personal upgrades until you get the Jarlslayer at the end of your career. The Battle Harness (aka the only power armor that makes sense for an adventurer, power consumption-wise) gives you Str 18 when a melee fighter can have up to Str 21 by the time you get it. Yes, it lets you dump Strength to a point (you still need 13 by level 5), but this is more valuable to, say, a Bombard soldier who uses more ranged attacks but still needs Strength.

At level 5, assuming melee striker:

Battle Harness: 1d10+5+4+2= 16.5 average damage
Heavy Armor, Hammer Fist, Str 20: 1d4+5+2+5+2= 16.5 average damage

Look at that! The heavy armor soldier does the same average damage as the guy in power armor, for free, with no concerns about power consumption.

You could throw ring of fangs in there, but then that just puts them both at 1d3+10+2+Strength mod damage and the Heavy Armor guy now wins by a point due to his higher Strength.

Your argument about freeing up points to put in Intelligence and whatnot is completely valid. But, pure damage-wise, unless the Armory gives us a set of power armor that gives us 22 Strength at level 5, the highest damage option for Armor Storm is still going to be staying away from power armor.

Grand Lodge

The problem with not taking Blitz is that your land speed is 20 and most armor give you a -5 or -10 to it making it very hard for you to maneuver, as per stats str i would go 16 and at lvl 2 get an augmentation to str so 18 and at lvl 5 you can have a 20 to str, this give some extra points to something else like con or dex

Exo-Guardians

OtrovaGomas wrote:
The problem with not taking Blitz is that your land speed is 20 and most armor give you a -5 or -10 to it making it very hard for you to maneuver, as per stats str i would go 16 and at lvl 2 get an augmentation to str so 18 and at lvl 5 you can have a 20 to str, this give some extra points to something else like con or dex

Clearly the solution is rocket flippers to close the distance (aka Jump Jets).

I also advise against going at less than max Strength; that negatively affects your level 10 strength... you'll be at 23 instead of 24 and only have a +6 instead of +7... with Melee Striker, this means the difference between +9 damage and +10 damage. This is assuming all possible strength personal upgrades... the comparison is less generous if your +4 went to something else.

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