Paladin: The Argument for Lawful Alignment

[Meirril]

Every Paladin like build has a Code of Conduct. Strict rules that need to be followed or the Paladin loses its powers. This isn't the behavior of a "just this once" chaotic being. This isn't the behavior of a neutral "but he didn't mean to break the rule" being. This is the behavior of someone that considers the guiding principles of their life to be a foundation of everything they believe in. This *is* the source of what a Paladin, or Paladin-like person should be.

All of these beings should be inflexible when it comes to their central beliefs. The whole reason each part of the code is given an order is to eliminate the kind of moral ambiguity that Neutrality and Chaos naturally gravitate towards.

If you had a Neutral paladin they would want all of the Code to be held equal in value so they could quibble that they upheld more of the code by acting the way they want to rather than holding one part of the code above others and sacrificing what they really want to do when it fall in line with 90% of their beliefs.

Chaotic Paladins...does a code really even matter? So long as it upholds even one portion of the code shouldn't that be good enough of an excuse? Even if they violate the code, would they feel that someone else needs to validate their atonement? Can't they just forgive themselves? Isn't that what is truly important to a Chaotic being?

Seriously, a Code should be something that matters to a Lawful being, but it shouldn't be a source of strength and a weakness to the other alignments.

Let Paladins be any Lawful alignment, and give them a special exception to worship any deity, even those that do not normally allow Lawful worshipers.

And get rid of Detect Evil. Change it to Detect Anathema, and create an Anathema list for alignments that Paladins who don't follow a deity get.

[Athaleon]

Chaos has its own set of principles and prohibitions: Chaotic Evil Antipaladins and alignment-agnostic Cavaliers have Codes of Conduct, Chaotic deities have Anathema, and a hypothetical Chaotic Good Paladin has only to switch out his lowest-priority tenet (rather than uphold authority, uphold individual freedom).

Not caring WRT Law/Chaos makes you Neutral, not Chaotic. Chaos has rules. If it seems contradictory, well, that's alignment for you.

[Meirril]

The big point is that Lawful beings should feel empowered by having a strict set of laws, codes, and rules to follow. This matches with their ethos and world outlook.

Chaotic creatures: why do they draw power from these restrictions? Every Paladin code is a restriction on actions the character is allowed. Is this not anathema to the definition of Chaotic? Chaotic charcters are the type that would ignore laws, codes, rules, societal norms and conventions to accomplish their goals. Why is a Chaotic Paladin LESS of an example of Chaotic than anyone else from the alignment?

Shouldn't a Paladin of something be a shinning example of what that something constitutes? If that is the case, then by definition Chaotic beings shouldn't feel constrained in their actions. They desire something and the ends justify the means. Or was Robin Hood wrong to steal from the rich to help the poor? Instead our CG Hood should of started an agrarian movement to improve the economy in such a way as it doesn't infringe on the lawful rulers of the kingdom? Should a CG Paladin not free slaves, but instead work to convince the rulers to forbid it? These are Lawful actions, not Chaotic.

Real Chaotics follow the rules when it benefits them to. As soon as it doesn't benefit them, break the rules. This doesn't fit the outlook of Paladins. Neither does trying to make excuses for a Paladins extreme views and moderate their actions. Paladins are strict and they are absolute. Paladins are Lawful. Even when they decide to follow Chaos, they will still act in strict and absolute ways because at essence they are still Lawful.

[willuwontu]

Ah a believer of the alignment triangle I see.

[Pandora's]

Meirril wrote:

Real Chaotics follow the rules when it benefits them to. As soon as it doesn't benefit them, break the rules.

This is a No True Scotsman fallacy. This is your view of what the chaotic alignment means. The huge disparity in how alignments are understood is the root cause of all this conflict, and why I find alignment to do more harm than good.

[graystone]

Pandora's wrote:

Meirril wrote:

Real Chaotics follow the rules when it benefits them to. As soon as it doesn't benefit them, break the rules.

This is a No True Scotsman fallacy. This is your view of what the chaotic alignment means. The huge disparity in how alignments are understood is the root cause of all this conflict, and why I find alignment to do more harm than good.

Well CLEARLY every one of the same alignment MUST play exactly the same or they aren't REAL... Clearly everyone of LAWFUL alignment MUST follow every law, be disciplined and never ever do anything on a whim. They all have a code right? :P

PS: does this alignment view come with the cookie cutter or do we have to buy it separately? ;)

[johnlocke90]

Meirril wrote:

Real Chaotics follow the rules when it benefits them to. As soon as it doesn't benefit them, break the rules.

If someone only does what benefits them, they are either Neutral or Evil.

Chaotic Good has to have principles it follows in order to stay good.