Starship Captain Encourage Gunner


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

Under the description of Encourage it says it works as the Aid Other skill (meaning you can make a DC10 check in the related skill) or Alternately you can make a DC 15+ Starship Tier Diplomacy Check.

Is only the alternative mode available if you are aiding a gunner? Or would it be considered a Piloting Check, Or even a Gunnery check (DC 10)?

Thank you for your assistance.

Liberty's Edge

To aid the Gunner you make the related gunnery check. If you are 10 or more, you aid.

So it is Pilot Ranks or BAB plus Dex plus computer mod to get a 10.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It's my understanding that unless something says otherwise, you can't use the aid another action, or any other character action, in starship combat. You can only choose from the list of options shown under your role.

Liberty's Edge

The question was about the Captain helping the Gunner.


And that's why Captains usually have their gunnery bonus listed.


Quote:

Encourage (Any Phase)

You can encourage another member of the crew to give her a bonus to her action. This works like aid another, granting a +2 bonus to the check required by a crew action if you succeed at a DC 10 check using the same skill. Alternatively, you can grant this same bonus by succeeding at a Diplomacy check (DC 15). You can’t encourage yourself.

If I'm understanding the situation correctly you would have 3 options to Encourage your gunner.

The most explicit is:
Diplomacy check, with a DC = 15

Alternatively you can make a DC 10 skill check using the same skill, Gunnery.

So in this case, for gunnery you have two options, you can either make a Piloting Skill check, or you can make a BAB + Dex modifier check in place because

Quote:
Gunnery Check = 1d20 + the gunner’s base attack bonus or the gunner’s ranks in the Piloting skill + the gunner’s Dexterity modifier + bonuses from computer systems + bonuses from the captain and science officers + range penalty


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I didn't think it was a Piloting skill check (as you might have other bonuses you add to a Piloting skill check), but specifically DEX + Pilot ranks.


Correct, it is a gunnery check that you are allowed to use your ranks in the piloting skill as part of the check, not a piloting skill check.

Liberty's Edge

Yea, pretty much said that already. Also get the computer modifier from the ship.


Claxon wrote:
Quote:

Encourage (Any Phase)

You can encourage another member of the crew to give her a bonus to her action. This works like aid another, granting a +2 bonus to the check required by a crew action if you succeed at a DC 10 check using the same skill. Alternatively, you can grant this same bonus by succeeding at a Diplomacy check (DC 15). You can’t encourage yourself.

If I'm understanding the situation correctly you would have 3 options to Encourage your gunner.

The most explicit is:
Diplomacy check, with a DC = 15

Is that correct? My hard copy states DC 15 + Ship's tier, though a flat check makes a tonne more sense (why would a bigger ship make encouraging with diplomacy harder, but not helping with the base skill?). Is there Errata about with a correction, as well as fixing things like the Icon DC flop and Envoy Expertise Talents wrong page number reference?


They lowered the ship dcs after printing.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
They lowered the ship dcs after printing.

There a link to that somewhere? Perhaps an errata PDF? I just ended up posting to the rules forum about how impossible the "orders" action is. And do recent printings have it fixed? One of our players only yesterday purchased the CRB in prep for our game to start and on a personal level I'd feel pretty angry if it's been changed.


FAQ is here


Dread Moores wrote:
FAQ is here

So nothing available offline then? And my friend's bought yesterday printing is wrong...

Opinion time: Ball kinda dropped on that one. We play in a game store PFS/SFS basement.


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Dread Moores wrote:
FAQ is here

So nothing available offline then? And my friend's bought yesterday printing is wrong...

Opinion time: Ball kinda dropped on that one. We play in a game store PFS/SFS basement.

They won't update the actual pdf/hardcopy until they decide on a 2nd revised printing incorporating the FAQ issues.


Nothing offline. You could take a note in the PDF file, or just print it out, and insert it into the hardcover pretty easily. While that book may have been bought yesterday, it was still part of the first printing. As mentioned, when a 2nd print run is done, PDFs (and the hardcover) will be updated.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Yeah, Paizo doesn't incorporate new errata like that until they run out of books to sell. Then they put it into the next print run.


Paizo didn't realize they had screwed up on Skill check DCs for starship combat until it was too late. However, if they didn't continue to sell the copies of the Starfinder CRB they would lose a ton of money. Yes, it's annoying that it's such a large error that wasn't caught before printing. Unfortunately, that's life sometimes.

And as to my previous post, yes I played it a little too fast and lose with my wording. When I said "piloting check" I really meant skill ranks in the piloting skill + dex. However, there is a blanket rule for Starship combat that says unless an ability or items specifically says it affects Starship combat, that it doesn't affect Starship combat. So a generic buff to Piloting wouldn't affect Starship combat, unless it specifically said it did.


Claxon wrote:
Paizo didn't realize they had screwed up on Skill check DCs for starship combat until it was too late. However, if they didn't continue to sell the copies of the Starfinder CRB they would lose a ton of money. Yes, it's annoying that it's such a large error that wasn't caught before printing. Unfortunately, that's life sometimes.

Which I get. However, at this point we're more than 8 months past release, and there's not even an offline-available digital version of the errata. So in non-online accessible areas you're SOL, which is why I'm mildly miffed (plus no hard copy of Pact Worlds yet? And no errata for UW from Pathfinder. All resources seem to be going into PF2 which is good, but leaves a bit of a sour taste).

Claxon wrote:
And as to my previous post, yes I played it a little too fast and lose with my wording. When I said "piloting check" I really meant skill ranks in the piloting skill + dex. However, there is a blanket rule for Starship combat that says unless an ability or items specifically says it affects Starship combat, that it doesn't affect Starship combat. So a generic buff to Piloting wouldn't affect Starship combat, unless it specifically said it did.

That's not entirely true. From the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:

Under "Actions" on page 322 it is stated "Class features and items affect crew actions only if specifically noted in the class feature or action." Does this mean I can't benefit from the skill bonus of operative's edge, or an envoy's skill expertise?

No. When actions taken in starship combat call for a skill check, any class feature that grants bonuses to or allows rerolls with the relevant skill applies when using that skill as part of starship combat. This is an exception to the rule.

So a Piloting buff from class abilities or skill focus can still apply to piloting the ship, however you are correct in that gunnery cannot use it. Gunnery checks specifically substitute BAB for ranks in Piloting, not your piloting skill check.


Hey, I didn't know about that FAQ for Starfinder.

I actually don't like it, and wont use it, because it's not intuitive (IMO) that some classes should get to apply some things and others will get nothing. It's not very equitable. One of the things I liked about the rule was that "No means no, unless explicitly yes".


Claxon wrote:

Hey, I didn't know about that FAQ for Starfinder.

I actually don't like it, and wont use it, because it's not intuitive (IMO) that some classes should get to apply some things and others will get nothing. It's not very equitable. One of the things I liked about the rule was that "No means no, unless explicitly yes".

I agree that it's poorly written for sure. I get what they're trying to say: things like taking an extra action don't apply to Starship actions unless they say so, however use your skill check, whatever it may be modified by, when called for.

Though it leaves it open to items required for skill checks like a mechanic's tools. As a class feature which modifies a skill check, does it apply or not because it's also an item?


Tools aren't a class feature though. It seems like it wouldn't apply, under that ruling.

Liberty's Edge

Dread Moores wrote:
Tools aren't a class feature though. It seems like it wouldn't apply, under that ruling.

Do you mean would apply?

Because tools do apply during space combat because that bonus is to the skill, not an action.

There is a clarification posted about it but can't point to it just now. I know it is not part of the FAQ.

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