Redundancy in human alt racial trait Heart of the Snows?


Rules Questions


Since Heart of the Snows says that you get the bonus "on any check", is there any good reason it goes on to specify Acrobatics & Climb checks in the next sentence with basically the same condition?


"Humans born in chilly climes treat cold climates as one category less severe. They gain a +2 racial bonus on Fortitude saving throws against the effects of cold climates, on any check or saving throw to avoid slipping and falling, and to CMD against trip combat maneuvers. This bonus applies on Acrobatics and Climb checks made in slippery conditions. This racial trait replaces skilled."

I believe this is what you're referring to. It seems to me "on any check" is followed by "to avoid slipping and falling" whereas "Acrobatics and Climb" are just "made in slippery conditions.

So if you need to make a climb check in a slippery condition but it isn't to avoid falling, it still gains the bonus.


Ah. A second, related question: What other checks might apply to avoid slipping and falling?

Only one I can think of is a straight ability check, which would bypass armor penalty, although I can't think of any situation where that would be allowed short of a house rule.

Hillariously thinking of this right now: "I use Intimidate on the ice to convince it to not make me fall."


Reflex save? That's all I've got lol


PonyFlare wrote:

Ah. A second, related question: What other checks might apply to avoid slipping and falling?

Acrobatics - Moving through enemy squares and jump checks.

Climb - Catch a Falling Character While Climbing

These are instances where you might use the skill in slippery conditions but failing the check wouldn't cause you to fall or slip.


thelivingmonkey wrote:
Reflex save? That's all I've got lol

Saving throws are listed sepperately.

LordKailas wrote:
PonyFlare wrote:

Ah. A second, related question: What other checks might apply to avoid slipping and falling?

Acrobatics - Moving through enemy squares and jump checks.

Climb - Catch a Falling Character While Climbing

These are instances where you might use the skill in slippery conditions but failing the check wouldn't cause you to fall or slip.

Those do answer my original question, but do not in any way answer my second question, which you quoted.

To rephrase, as my 2nd question is essentially a reversal of my first: Since Acrobatics & Climb are called out specifically afterwards, is there any reason to say 'on any check', when there do not seem to be any other checks that would apply? - Their use in slippery conditions would seem to include any situation where you could slip and fall. Secondarily, are there any situations where you could slip & fall that are not slippery conditions?


PonyFlare wrote:


Those do answer my original question, but do not in any way answer my second question, which you quoted.

To rephrase, as my 2nd question is essentially a reversal of my first: Since Acrobatics & Climb are called out specifically afterwards, is there any reason to say 'on any check', when there do not seem to be any other checks that would apply? - Their use in slippery conditions would seem to include any situation where you could slip and fall. Secondarily, are there any situations where you could slip & fall that are not slippery conditions?

heh, yeah sorry about that. That'll teach me to hit reply and then go find the answer instead of vice versa. When I swapped tabs to re-read the question I went to the first post instead of the one I was intending on answering.

If we assume slipping and falling are separate items then it would apply to the following skills.

Ride: There are several checks related to falling off your mount that require a check.

Fly: There is an option to use fly instead of acrobatics to prevent falling damage via a check.

If however, slip and fall is combined the only other times you might have to make a check would be if you're dealing with a grease effect. But, as has been pointed out those sorts of things are typically either an acrobatics or a reflex save. It's most likely redundant but it would catch really weird situations. Like say you're having to make intelligence checks to keep from slipping and falling due to a vertigo type effect.


After some thought and some checking, and assumption that you have an open-minded DM, I would say ride checks to stay in saddle in slippery conditions, but it's DC 5 anyway so basically useless (though the DC could go up in such a case depending on DM and the specific situation anyways)

You could slip and fall in a normal condition (such as tripping over yourself) but it is less likely than in a non-slippery circumstance (and not very heroic, probably the reason we don't need to make "don't trip checks" any time we walk).

So basically everything I've said is either useless, up to DM fiat, or will never come up in actual play. Nice, sorry.

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It's likely the author is being deliberately broad just in case some unforeseen check comes up in the future. So if some AP writer a year later decides that a room has ankle-high magical pulses emanating from the far wall, and PCs can make Spellcraft checks not to trip and fall down, you're still covered.

Actually, it might apply to "blown away" Strength checks against high winds.


Attribute checks could also apply. Straight Dex or str checks.

But I agree that the logic of I'm just being broad to cover my ass" is sound in a game like this.

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