When it comes to fantasy art, there seems to be a lot of push and pull between practicality on the one hand and cool aesthetics on the other.
I've got a longer post on the subject over here, but I'm curious to hear where you guys come down on the question. What's your favorite type of fantasy art? Highly stylized and cartoony? Ultra-realistic? Post links so we can compare notes!
Nothing quite as attractive as a no-nonsense woman in full platemail.
Personally though, I like both for different reasons. Any female characters I make tend to go full armor where available in their art, or their minis. The only exception so far is an oracle character I made, but that was mostly the limitations of the modeler and breastplate armors.
Unfortunately I haven't taken any pics of my recently painted Heroforge minis lately, nor do I tend to upload them outside the occasional twitter post.
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as long as the armor has parity across genders and is drawn in a consistent style I don't really care.
When it comes to artwork for my own characters it depends on how "serious" the character is. If my character has a wacky personality I'm fine with a somewhat cartoonish look. On the other hand if the character has a very grave attitude then I prefer a more realistic art style.
here are some examples of what I mean
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Stop, please.
We just had this debate four days ago and the thread is locked because it's still being moderated. I get it that you're excited to drive traffic to your blog. But really, we don't need this topic again.
Serious Dwarven Earth Wizard
Loving that style! Also, good on ya for selecting an image with the artist link.
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I've come to prefer highly realistic armor. Real armor looks amazing without any fantastic augmentation, and doesn't need the overdesigned elements to be aesthetically pleasing. Moreover, the weird fantasy armor tropes are just so prolific that they just blend into each other. In many ways, the simplistic and utilitarian design of realistic armor actually stands out more than the fantastic ones.
I've come to prefer highly realistic armor. Real armor looks amazing without any fantastic augmentation, and doesn't need the overdesigned elements to be aesthetically pleasing. Moreover, the weird fantasy armor tropes are just so prolific that they just blend into each other. In many ways, the simplistic and utilitarian design of realistic armor actually stands out more than the fantastic ones.
There was a pic of Sir. Gawain in this old coffee table book that always stuck with me...
https://www.amazon.com/Diversity-Dragons-Pern-Anne-McCaffrey/dp/006105531X
I can't find a pic online, but it was a highly realistic plate armor knight holding a dead dragon in his right hand. It remains my mental image of "dragon slayer."
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If I never see another chainmail bikini, it'll be too soon.
And don't get me started on "breastsplates" that shape around a woman's breasts. Women in Practical Armor has a particularly excellent story demonstrating how foolish you'd have to be to essentially have an inward-facing axe blade crafted right in front of your sternum--I highly recommend it. (The story, that is.)
Yes, that includes Seelah. Sorry, Wayne.
Stop, please.
We just had this debate four days ago and the thread is locked because it's still being moderated. I get it that you're excited to drive traffic to your blog. But really, we don't need this topic again.
?
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If armor is going to look fantastic, I want it fantastic. Like Elder Scrolls Daedric or Bonemold armor. Otherwise make it look like armor.
Honestly, it varies. It's just whatever I think looks cool. Whether that be a realistically armored knight, or an amazonian half orc wearing the steryotypical Fur Bikini. Just, what ever looks cool.
Honestly, it varies. It's just whatever I think looks cool. Whether that be a realistically armored knight, or an amazonian half orc wearing the steryotypical Fur Bikini. Just, what ever looks cool.
Any pics of favorite pieces for comparison?
(I regret titling this post like I did. I'd hoped for a positive "here are the cool things that I like" thread containing cool art rather than "here are the things I don't like and why they are dumb.")
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In that case: If a character is wearing armor, I like when it's actually armor. : )
Agrias Oaks (from Final Fantasy Tactics is a relatively reasonable example or armor that isn't completely stupid--it has obvious problems but not due to any attempt to sexualize the character. Captain Phasma from Star Wars is an even better example--her armor is just that, armor.
Captain Phasma from Star Wars is an even better example--her armor is just that, armor.
I thought her half-cape was a nice touch. It gave her a gunslinger vibe:
http://www.slashfilm.com/wp/wp-content/images/captain-phasma1.jpg
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I just looked at some character art from my brief foray onto pinterest and found one that isn't boobplate/cut unfeasibly low.
It does however feature an impractically short skirt.
I like fantastical armour - so many exposed areas you might as well not bother really, wings, spikes, skulls, fire, thick enough that even a dwarf would be slowed, swirly bits and flowing capes that threaten to get caught up on everything, gold, silver, filigree and buckles and ...
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+1 for Daedric armor if it's supposed to be fancy or special.
I've also been a fan of what this game calls piecemail. Mostly light armor with a spiked heavy armor offhand/shield arm.
I appreciate beautiful people as much as the next person, but I think the sexist chainmail bikini nonsense is garbage. And it saturates every bit of media you can possibly find. Has been for a long time, too. Yeah, sure Xena, put some clothes on, then be a warrior princess.
I just looked at some character art from my brief foray onto pinterest and found one that isn't boobplate/cut unfeasibly low.
It does however feature an impractically short skirt.
I assume it comes with a looooooooong jacket.
...
Got a link?
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I just looked at some character art from my brief foray onto pinterest and found one that isn't boobplate/cut unfeasibly low.
It does however feature an impractically short skirt.
I assume it comes with a looooooooong jacket.
...
Got a link?
?Stop, please.
We just had this debate four days ago and the thread is locked because it's still being moderated. I get it that you're excited to drive traffic to your blog. But really, we don't need this topic again.
no, but it does have a cloak.
Huh. Is that an anime influence on the eyes? Interesting... The whole thing kind of has a Roman feel to it. Any idea who the artist is?
'fraid not - just a random uncredited pin.
edit: may be from legend of the cryptids game
If armor is going to look fantastic, I want it fantastic. Like Elder Scrolls Daedric or Bonemold armor. Otherwise make it look like armor.
I prefer ebony... and mod the female version so it doesn't have a 'breast plate'. I like the type that is a bit more sleek and simple in its structural design, while being well embellished with things like gold leaf.
Honestly, my personal problem with stupid sexy armor is when I am trying to make barbarian men (or some similar style brute). I want to go for Schwarzenegger/Conan style muscles (EMPOWERING!) without losing out on AC or lying to myself about what I am wearing.
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I'm not sure I'm the best judge of what realistic armour looks like. I think I lean on the "realism" side of things, but moderately stylized is fine.
Pair of examples I like:
Paladin - Gritty
Inspiring Angel - Shiny
Might dig up some more later.
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My tastes run the gamut. I love the armor designs across Dark Souls, especially the Elite Knight set from Dark Souls I and the Alva Set from Dark Souls IIm but I also love the character designs from Granblue Fantasy. I also don't turn my nose up at bikini armor. Granted, I tend to imagine most of my games looking like JRPGs anyway, but I also want my characters (and my players' characters) to look how I (and they) want them to look. So, I suppose I stand on the side of "stylized."
You know what works for me on the "sylized" front? This version of Serra Angel:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/2Z8BB
Girl looks all kinds of badass to me.
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I finally dug up all of my examples.
Here's the Elite Knight Set from Dark Souls I
This is the Alva Set from the sequel.
What follows is a bunch of character illustrations from Granblue Fantasy.
The Super Rare version of Jeanne
I don't even know if I should post the bikini armor. I'll do it in another post and if a mod finds it objectionable, they're free to delete it.
Damn, dude! Thanks for taking the time! I like your dark souls examples quite a bit. They sell that close-to-realistic-but-still-fantastic feel.
As for the Granblue Fantasy stuff, I think that the two versions of Jeanne make for an interesting comparison. I prefer the super-rare version, as it reads "badass female" to me without sexualizing what is supposed to be protective gear.
I guess that's the big difference in my mind: I don't mind bikinis masquerading as armor in a comedy setting, but when you put them side by side with grim-dark-serious armor it begins to feel out of place. For me at least, it's less the art itself than the context.
Well it kind of depends on what i am after.
Personally i guess i am a bit of a fan of the "half-efficient" armor that almost look cermonial. Like the Breastplate + Battledress/skirt combination is what i kind of accept as a middle road of "sexy and somewhat useable". Thereis a few armors with "breasts" that isnt too bad, but i cringe a lot when i see armors that just "bludges" out a pair of breasts like its a couple of rusty cannons... meh.
So if we go on a scale from 0 to 100 from Efficient(0) to Lewd(100) i guess my acceptance goes up to 70-ish.
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If a breastplate has a sharp concavity between the breasts, it's basically asking for death by myocardial intusion the first time you get whacked there with a mace. Pretty much any pronounced concavity on the breastplate is a recipe for disaster.
Ceremonial armor, though? Go nuts. That stuff's for show, not for battle. If orcs attack your parade, though, you're better off cutting the straps and fighting naked than running around in that stuff.
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If a breastplate has a sharp concavity between the breasts, it's basically asking for death by myocardial intusion the first time you get whacked there with a mace. Pretty much any pronounced concavity on the breastplate is a recipe for disaster.
don't care - fantasy and fun first. :)
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How is it more "fantasy and fun" than an actual functional breastplate?
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I once thought of an idea for a character in an all-drow group. A male ecclistheurge cleric of Nocticula. What would a male drow cleric who eschews armour and prays to the Succubus Queen wear?
So I figured he'd have a pair of big, thick boots, one spiky gauntlet (with spikes threatening to poke his arm), one pauldron on his other arm, a huge, spiky codpiece, half a shirt with holes in it, and his unholy symbol, instead of being a crown, will be a crown-looking gorget. He's out to prove he can be just as tough as the ladies while still looking good doing it!
Nothing at all!
Nothing at all!
...But yeah, I like my armour functional. They can have lingerie for after the fighting's over, when it's time to relax. If they rely on spells for their AC, and thus can wear whatever they want, why not have "what they want" be casual, with pockets and stuff? I mean, goofy, unrealistic stuff is lighthearted fun, so where's all the art of Ezren flying around in nothing but a tabard with a neckline to his navel? (Sorry if anyone failed a Will save vs. Unseeing That)
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How is it more "fantasy and fun" than an actual functional breastplate?For much the same reason that having giant buster swords, helmets with massive grabbable horns, and flowing capes is more generally more fun than 100% functional and mundane everywhere.
You aren't constrained by what's actually functional in fantasy and some people enjoy designs that are dare I say...fantastical. I mean, PF isn't a A Song of Ice and Fire which cuts its teeth on being grounded and realistic, this is high fantasy and heroism. Practicality got lost on the way to hotel.
Yes, we are only constrained by aesthetics. And as such the "breast"plate is still pretty bad.
A buster sword gives off an impression of strength, since its size implies mass that can wreck a person with sheer weight when it is swung, as well as the overbearing strength required to wield that mass.
A "Breast" plate only gives off an impression of "I am female". There is little message past that. It doesn't inform you much about her abilities other than (as Blahpers notes) "I am willing to accept risking my life just to be pretty". Sure, that has its place, but it is too ubiquitous (usually, it is more for the overly vain noble with little sense) for it to honestly be for that role.
While you don't need to be realistic, you need to have a purpose with the implausible- going back to my "Stupid Sexy Conan the Barbarian", I tend towards images like that in order to show off muscles, which are used to again imply strength- to make a full display of the barbarian's ability to rip you in two with his bare hands. An additional note is that the use of exposed muscles isn't used across all the male characters I use- it is only for a very particular flavor of brute. This helps to preserve the aesthetic purpose of the exposed skin.
On another notes, realistic armors also have their own impression. Their restrained aesthetics and mundane function actually helps to create a sense that 'this is something you could actually use when killing someone'- it makes it down to earth and gritty.
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I'll ask. What's wrong with a very quick at a glance establishment that a particular character is female (or male)? Being able to quickly suss out the gist of a character through design and silhouette and such is pretty damn valuable in most mediums. If I stack some Seelah style boob plate, a horned helmet, and a wolf cloak, I've more than likely just communicated that this person is a female viking type even though I've saddled her with impractical armor implements (cloak, horns, boobplate).
From how I understand the argument, there's nothing wrong with being able to tell someone's gender at a glance. That's completely beside the point. No one cares whether you can tell someone's gender at a glance.
The problem people have is that it breaks immersion. I, and several other people, think it looks stupid. Now, there's a fine line between things that are stupid and things that look stupid, which is largely up to personal preference. As you mentioned, horns are stupid, as are capes. I think horns look stupid, I think capes look awesome.
But the reason so many more people come out of the woodwork to say how much they hate skimpy or breast-defining armor then you get people complaining about horns on helmets, is that helmet horns are there for characterization or cool factor, but boob plate is so ubiquitous that it doesn't really say anything about the character, and, due to its absurdity, often goes against characterisation.
TL;DR: Nothing wrong with being able to tell genders apart, you can usually tell by face, hairstyle, or personal effects. The quoted quote unfortunately implies that practically armored men are the default, and women need impractical metal shelfs to be told apart.
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While there is technically fun in functional - there really isn't :)
Are you playing a Cirque du Soleil campaign?
Lvl 1 character: realistic af
Lvl 20 character: megabadass totally impractical stupidly impressive cartoonish stylized.
It’s all about that signamancy, you know?
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I'll ask. What's wrong with a very quick at a glance establishment that a particular character is female (or male)? Being able to quickly suss out the gist of a character through design and silhouette and such is pretty damn valuable in most mediums. If I stack some Seelah style boob plate, a horned helmet, and a wolf cloak, I've more than likely just communicated that this person is a female viking type even though I've saddled her with impractical armor implements (cloak, horns, boobplate).
Nothing at all. But there's a difference between "doesn't obscure gender" and "aesthetic defined by gender alone to the point of objectification". Seelah probably doesn't go that far--her armor is impractical but (relatively) inoffensive--but we've all seen the ridiculous stuff. There's a big difference between horns on a helmet and cleavage falling out of plate, so let's not pretend there isn't.
I tried posting this in the rather heated thread, but I prefer my fantasy in a more slice of life down home style.
And thus the webcomic Gaia
That being said, boob plate, scanty rogues, and sexy sorceresses don't bother my wife, and I can live with them if it means I can roll some dice with friends.
I'll ask. What's wrong with a very quick at a glance establishment that a particular character is female (or male)? Being able to quickly suss out the gist of a character through design and silhouette and such is pretty damn valuable in most mediums. If I stack some Seelah style boob plate, a horned helmet, and a wolf cloak, I've more than likely just communicated that this person is a female viking type even though I've saddled her with impractical armor implements (cloak, horns, boobplate).
[quote cut for space]
TL;DR: Nothing wrong with being able to tell genders apart, you can usually tell by face, hairstyle, or personal effects. The quoted quote unfortunately implies that practically armored men are the default, and women need impractical metal shelfs to be told apart.
Yeah. The "heroes don't wear helmets" trope can help a lot with basic ID details- the lack of helmet is bad practically (sword to face), but it has the aesthetic/thematic purpose of avoiding the 'storm trooper effect' where face covering helmets dehumanize the character.
Flowing golden locks on your Joan d'Arc wannabe is a great way to show gender while still providing great armor. Maybe have the hair flowing like some scarfs/capes/etc. do- I've seen various pieces of artwork that rock that well, and help to provide a nice grace to the whole affair.
I do not ask for everything to be practical- just that it should have a distinct purpose that contributes to the whole.
Mountain Pattern Armor should grant +2 charisma if you're at least 13 to begin with. (Extra bonus not good for anything except looking awesome.)
