What happened to paladins?


General Discussion


Obviously, most of the classes have shifted or disappeared due to the drastic shifts in culture and technology since Pathfinder's day. However, paladins seem like they'd try to hold on to their traditions as long as they could. Especially given Iomedae's greater importance now.

Have we ever heard of what happened to the last paladins?


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Star Knight archetype, connection inkling & divine blessing feats. Bam, Starfinder paladin.


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FormerFiend wrote:
Star Knight archetype, connection inkling & divine blessing feats. Bam, Starfinder paladin.

Or soldier, Divine Champion archetype, Priest theme, those feats.


I figured as magic changed ala the mystic and technomage, the notion of being that connected to your Deity that you get Paladin powers also diminished a bit into the archetypes and other stuff that posters above mentioned.

Plus it would remain that being a Paladin is hard, why take the life when you can get similar powers for less stringent codes/etc


Paladins don't fit Starfinder as well thematically.

The game is much less focused on outsiders and undead. They are still around, but the game is focused on exploring all the crazy aliens and planets you can encounter.

We also no longer have detect alignment spells. So a full class based on killing opposite aligned things does not work as well. We have some archetypes for it though.


johnlocke90 wrote:

Paladins don't fit Starfinder as well thematically.

The game is much less focused on outsiders and undead. They are still around, but the game is focused on exploring all the crazy aliens and planets you can encounter.

We also no longer have detect alignment spells. So a full class based on killing opposite aligned things does not work as well. We have some archetypes for it though.

Pact worlds also offers archtypes and some feats if you want a more divine flavor for a class. Be pretty easy to make a paladin like soldier using one of those archtypes and some of the available feats. Kinda more like older school paladins where your spell casting kicks in around level 6.


Supperman wrote:

Obviously, most of the classes have shifted or disappeared due to the drastic shifts in culture and technology since Pathfinder's day. However, paladins seem like they'd try to hold on to their traditions as long as they could. Especially given Iomedae's greater importance now.

Have we ever heard of what happened to the last paladins?

Huh... you still can use any of the Pathfinder classes. There is even a section dedicated to them in the Core Rulebook. Ok, granted, some little teaking needs to be done, but still.

Silver Crusade

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it all boils down to the thematic shift. Pathfinder is high fantasy at its very core, Starfinder is 50% sci-fi at its core (as a large swath of science fantasy is). Paladins don't work as well in science fantasy or sci-fi.

as far as setting wise....it could probably just be the shift in culture over time. The same reason why the catholic church isn't really producing a bunch of crusaders and inquisitors these days. That s!!* just doesn't really fit in to today's world. There are things about some knight orders and religious orders that are lost to history at this point. We know enough to give a basic outline but any specifics like rituals or vows are lost. In a fantasy setting turned science fantasy, technology that is able to produce effects that are similar in nature to magical effects or at least put the common person at a competitive level with magic means that some of the old traditions of magic and magical/supernatural power are less appealing. Especially if it comes at the cost of living a very strict ethical and moral code.

A person can follow Iomedae and still be a rat bastard. I mean there are plenty of real world examples of "pious people" being anything but pious.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

On the other hand, though, the Knights of Golarion basically ARE space paladins. Not all of them have the same connection to Iomedae that pre-Gap paladins did, but they fit the ideal to a T.


JiCi wrote:
Supperman wrote:

Obviously, most of the classes have shifted or disappeared due to the drastic shifts in culture and technology since Pathfinder's day. However, paladins seem like they'd try to hold on to their traditions as long as they could. Especially given Iomedae's greater importance now.

Have we ever heard of what happened to the last paladins?

Huh... you still can use any of the Pathfinder classes. There is even a section dedicated to them in the Core Rulebook. Ok, granted, some little teaking needs to be done, but still.

"Some little tweaking" is... a bit of an understatement. There's a reason they did not do it for us.

I digress, though. Paladins didnt go anywhere: there just isnt a class named Paladin. There doesnt have to be one for them to exist, just like there doesnt need to be a class called "Doctor".


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Given that the fundamental magico-cosmic underpinnings of paladins are still in effect, sure, there are still paladins around. They just aren't a major enough part of the setting to get a writeup yet.

If I were to handle it, I'd do them as an archetype. No, not the Divine Champion archetype. Being a Paladin is not about worshipping a specific deity, its about being Super Mega Lawful Good. Needs its own archetype, which would be fairly heavy on abilities in exchange for also being heavy on the requirements ( alignment and code of honor ).


Give them a couple of years...


I'm just re-writing the class according to chapter 13 and using the Starfinder class progression values. Is there a place to post the conversion?


Rayenaire wrote:
I'm just re-writing the class according to chapter 13 and using the Starfinder class progression values. Is there a place to post the conversion?

The Homebrew.


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For what it's worth, someone already published a Starfinder Paladin. Also the Bard, Cleric, Magus, Ranger, and Wizard.


GM Rednal wrote:
For what it's worth, someone already published a Starfinder Paladin. Also the Bard, Cleric, Magus, Ranger, and Wizard.

Quick skim over it & it looks pretty good. Though I'd throw the LG alignment restriction on the trash heap of history where it belongs were I to incorporate the class into a game I was running.

But then I have very strong opinions on alignment restrictions that have lead to a couple threads being closed down, so that's a can of wyrms perhaps best left unopened.

Edit: Though it is missing diplomacy as a class skill. Don't know if that was a deliberate decision due to Starfinder's smaller skill list or an oversight.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
FormerFiend wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
For what it's worth, someone already published a Starfinder Paladin. Also the Bard, Cleric, Magus, Ranger, and Wizard.

Quick skim over it & it looks pretty good. Though I'd throw the LG alignment restriction on the trash heap of history where it belongs were I to incorporate the class into a game I was running.

But then I have very strong opinions on alignment restrictions that have lead to a couple threads being closed down, so that's a can of wyrms perhaps best left unopened.

Edit: Though it is missing diplomacy as a class skill. Don't know if that was a deliberate decision due to Starfinder's smaller skill list or an oversight.

If a paladin is not going to be LG, what is the point even having one in the first place?


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Metaphysician wrote:
FormerFiend wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
For what it's worth, someone already published a Starfinder Paladin. Also the Bard, Cleric, Magus, Ranger, and Wizard.

Quick skim over it & it looks pretty good. Though I'd throw the LG alignment restriction on the trash heap of history where it belongs were I to incorporate the class into a game I was running.

But then I have very strong opinions on alignment restrictions that have lead to a couple threads being closed down, so that's a can of wyrms perhaps best left unopened.

Edit: Though it is missing diplomacy as a class skill. Don't know if that was a deliberate decision due to Starfinder's smaller skill list or an oversight.

If a paladin is not going to be LG, what is the point even having one in the first place?

To have a divinely empowered warrior, proficient in martial weapons & heavy armor, capable of casting a limited selection of spells (say, up to fourth level), with an alignment-based smite attack and an aura that bolsters their allies or weakens their enemies, and the ability to lay on hands to either heal or harm, bound by a code of conduct in accordance with their deity's will.


FormerFiend wrote:
Quick skim over it & it looks pretty good. Though I'd throw the LG alignment restriction on the trash heap of history where it belongs were I to incorporate the class into a game I was running.

Agreed. This is particularly true in Starfinder, where alignment has a much less significant impact (yay!). Tossing alignment is far easier in this game, and doing so is a huge help in keeping the feel of the Pact Worlds as presented (if you're using that setting).


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There have been paladins of non-Lawful Good alignments as far back as 1st edition AD&D. CE Anti-paladins at first, and then Dragon Magazine came out with an article that had all the rest.

Thing is, there's no good reason to differentiate the various warriors of faith except perhaps insofar as they have different deities or philosophies.

Giving special bonuses to ONLY Lawful Good characters is silly. Alignment is silly, actually, as well-presented characters are more complicated than what a couple of three point moral & ethical scales can truly ascertain.

Dark Archive

FormerFiend wrote:


<Snip>

Edit: Though it is missing diplomacy as a class skill. Don't know if that was a deliberate decision due to Starfinder's smaller skill list or an oversight.

It was deliberate, considering the consolidated system. We also debated the alignment restriction, but came down on the side of LG being intrensic to what made a paladin a paladin in Pathfinder.

That said, you're in the land of 3pp, and the chassis would be pretty adaptable to other alignments.


I suppose internal consistency is probably the strongest argument in favor of keeping the restriction. They were LG only in PF and SF is in the same universe so why would they work differently?

Thing is, that kind of mentality gets you locked into perpetuating bad ideas for the sake of consistency.

Oh well, like you said, it is 3pp. Even if it wasn't, I adamantly refuse to join organized society play because I can't stand the restrictive nature of it, so as long as I'm with a like-minded group we can find a way to adapt it.

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