What Changes Should Happen in Golarion?


Prerelease Discussion

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Albatoonoe wrote:

I'd be okay with it, but I kinda want the worldwound to still be open, as well as certain other adventure be left unsolved.

I'll be very happy to see canonical ends for all the PF1.0 APs, for what that vote is worth.

Quote:


Otherwise, it does seem like a super dense decade for adventuring.

No argument there, though some sets of APs do logically fit together well in ways above and beyond what's actually in the text, or can with very minor tinkering. (Such as having the big bad of Giantslayer be motivated in his desire to put an empire of giants together by having seen what happens to regular giants when there are rune giants working for a rising Runelord about, or stocking up the Glorious Reclamation in Hell's Vengeance with Worldwound veterans who are no longer so urgently needed there.)

It would totally work for me for there to be some sort of in-world nexus event causing all these things to happen so relatively close together, and exploring that might be a fun AP somewhere down the line. (If it were me it would be something the caulborn did. We don't know nearly enough about them yet.)


Rahadoum doesn't really inspire me, so it being a "going well, honest" nation is fine by me.

Hermea now ... that entire set-up reeks of "AP waiting to happen".

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar 'tis true. On Golarion, sometimes a cigar has the shapechanger subtype.


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The Mad Comrade wrote:

Rahadoum doesn't really inspire me, so it being a "going well, honest" nation is fine by me.

Hermea now ... that entire set-up reeks of "AP waiting to happen".

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar 'tis true. On Golarion, sometimes a cigar has the shapechanger subtype.

Well it is about time for the Doomsday clock to go off so having multiple changes leading up to something huge would make sense.


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FangDragon wrote:
Many of those questions are interesting, moving the clock forward a decade or so makes sense. One thing I'd like to find out what happened to Aroden, preferably in AP format.

He died. That's all we need to know.


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Arssanguinus wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Aaaand it was confirmed that Aroden's fate will remain a secret.
Boo!
I don’t get why having a mystery such a bad thing.

It isn’t. I’m disappointed I’m never going to know that answer. I’m not disappointed that there’s mysteries.


Jester David wrote:


I think Paizo made a mistake by formalizing the answer and then revealing there IS an answer. Because that just teases the fans. They should have been more vague and said "we're leaving the answer to that for the fans..."

I disagree on them having an answer and not revealing it. I like that. It makes for some consistency in the way things are done on their part. Not having an answer is kind of a cop out. They can base things on the answer that they know while still keeping it hidden and only revealing hints.

But of course /I/ know the real answer. Aroden is actually alive and well. He just overslept because he set his alarm wrong. He didn't update his clock for Millenium Saving Time so will wake up in like 900 years. Pharasma is covering for him by not talking about it. I's embarrassing when a god oversleeps.


Elfteiroh wrote:
Set wrote:

[...]

I'm still salty about the Time of Troubles, and the blowing up of the World of Darkness certainly didn't do White Wolf any favors.

Well, they kinda tied themselves up with this one, promising there will be an end of the world... they postponed it for some years, but it went stale and it was becoming kind of a joke that the end would never come. When came the time to make a new edition, they realized it was the time to fulfill the promise, and it let them make the big tonal shift then wanted to make (the old tone was also getting out of fashion fast).

Personally, I loved that change, as the old tone felt weird to me, and the new one was way more my kind of horror. But eh, now they are releasing new books again (even if they could choose some better people to write some of them...)

I actually rather prefer the New Wod too (although I've only played the new Mage). The old one had so much Early Installment Weirdness that got grandfathered in. Like True Anythings. Or Sam Haight. And everyone of importance in history was a vampire. The new Wod seemed more focused on being monsters as opposed to superheroes. Of course they lost a lot of the people who liked the old way, because it was a huge change. I think they expected Exalted would be able to keep them in the black.


Doktor Weasel wrote:
I actually rather prefer the New Wod too (although I've only played the new Mage)

If you have a reasonably mature group who will play it with you, track down New Changeling immediately. While it's assuredly not for everybody, Changeling: the Lost is the single most impressive thing WW ever put out (and still more accessible than "Old Wraith" but the themes in C:tL are genuinely heavy).

And now back to your regularly scheduled Pathfinder Playtest.


Rather than things from the current setting to change, I'm interested in new plot seeds they can plant.

Where is there a previously un-explored super dungeon?

What are the various nations and cultures in the Mwangi Expanse up to? We can't just keep them as an undifferentiated lump of black people, y'know.

Is anybody going to war with anybody else?

What's the aftermath of the Aucturn Enigma? The Worldwound was around for 111 years, right? Is there a new countdown clock?

What ancient threats will reawaken? We've only seen a couple of the runelords, right?

How about a sighting of a Spawn of Rovagug, so that they can playtest "climbing on giant monsters" rules?


Some rulers certainly need to kick the bucket. I'm going over Ustalav again in preparations of attempting to run Carrion Crown again. And there are some old folks in charge. The Prince would currently be in his 70s and the 'young' pretender in his 40s. Count Neska was over 90 in 4711. So he's pushing 100 now, same with the Countess of Ardeal. And this is just one country. There certainly should be some turnover.

But I figure any changeover needs to not make the world less interesting. That is a problem with world-changing events in the APs. If you fix all the problems there will be little left to do. So Razmir /needs/ to stay in power, because him being so is more interesting. Although there are multiple ways to play with this like the Dread Pirate Razmir idea or him just getting level 20 and going immortal. I'd love to see a Rarmirin AP, but I don't want to see him taken down at the end.

Herma needs a shakeup because as it's closed. Having a mystery land is all well and good, but the fact that little goes in or out of there means there isn't a whole lot of room to play with it. Probably another AP candidate.

I think Galt being the perpetual revolution makes it cool. For it to settle down into a normal, sane country would be a bit sad.

Druma needs /something/ to happen. Because as it is it's just kind of bland. They've got the weird money cult, but nothing happens there.


Steve Geddes wrote:


It isn’t. I’m disappointed I’m never going to know that answer. I’m not disappointed that there’s mysteries.

Then I would steer clear of Eberron, if I were you. Keith Baker, the creator of Eberron, deliberately created numerous setting-specific mysteries without any answers. Even he doesn't know nor does he care to provide any hard answers, just speculation.

Liberty's Edge

Doktor Weasel wrote:
I disagree on them having an answer and not revealing it. I like that. It makes for some consistency in the way things are done on their part. Not having an answer is kind of a cop out. They can base things on the answer that they know while still keeping it hidden and only revealing hints.

You misunderstand.

I mean revealing that they HAVE a canon answer and won't reveal it, versus having one to be consistent with their clues but being vague and mysterious over if they have one or not.

In both situations they could have the real answer. And be consistent with clues.
But in one, they have an official answer to a mystery they won't share with the fans. Which is a colossal tease, AND we know if we make up a reason it invariably won't match canon.
In the other, we can speculate that they have an official but don't know for sure, so we feel comfortable making our own reason up.
The uncertainty helps.


I've always thought Druma was interesting precisely because the bland visage (to me) screams out there is way crazy s&+& under the surface and in it's history / closet of skeletons. Although that's obviously low-key, seems very ripe for exploration. Like who were Drumans before is interesting question, I think idea they were Kellids who adopted Taldane rulers/language/culture is interesting and leaves option for old Kellid cults etc. Oh and please openly distinguish whatever they're doing with Not-Slavs in NE Avistan, even if it is hybrid of 2 other ethnicities in origin.

Look forward to Casmaron, besides Kelesh that Kaladay s!!~ sounds crazy... And obviously Tian needs more detailing, Nagajor's collection of motley demesnes seems ripe for opening up, and really the angle of "Dragon Empires" aka heirs of actual Dragon-ruled empire seems begging for attention... I mean, DRAGON hello? That one specific region ended up with weird secular-theocracy with vacant head (Oraclar Court/Po Li) seem awesome and begging for tie-in when Oracle 2.0 gets released, especially with Paizo going "Golarion tie-in heavy". Seems to me Oracular Court would have cultural relevance beyond Po Li, that's just where they actually rule, but we really know very little so far, and it seems to beg for concept of Oracles who are against the Court. Then the whole Xa Hoi, i.e. the other Dragon Kingdom ruled by LG Dragon who maintained independence vs first and still hung around today. Basically all this s&&+ that is attractive on many layers besides orientalist fixation on "not-X-culture". Cool, also do that like Taldane-Cheliax is sorta not-Romance, but like that isn't taken overly seriously in Inner Sea, it needn't be so in Tian Xia, and that seems the route for wider popularity. But what do I know?


Jester David wrote:
Doktor Weasel wrote:
I disagree on them having an answer and not revealing it. I like that. It makes for some consistency in the way things are done on their part. Not having an answer is kind of a cop out. They can base things on the answer that they know while still keeping it hidden and only revealing hints.

You misunderstand.

I mean revealing that they HAVE a canon answer and won't reveal it, versus having one to be consistent with their clues but being vague and mysterious over if they have one or not.

In both situations they could have the real answer. And be consistent with clues.
But in one, they have an official answer to a mystery they won't share with the fans. Which is a colossal tease, AND we know if we make up a reason it invariably won't match canon.
In the other, we can speculate that they have an official but don't know for sure, so we feel comfortable making our own reason up.
The uncertainty helps.

I can see that. On the other hand playing coy about whether they actually know themselves can be annoying. I suspect this is really a "Your mileage my vary." situation.


AFAIK they directly stated they know but won't tell. I don't think people would be more happy if they dedicate word count in printed books to spelling that out. Like there is better usages of ink out there.

Liberty's Edge

Aldarc wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


It isn’t. I’m disappointed I’m never going to know that answer. I’m not disappointed that there’s mysteries.
Then I would steer clear of Eberron, if I were you. Keith Baker, the creator of Eberron, deliberately created numerous setting-specific mysteries without any answers. Even he doesn't know nor does he care to provide any hard answers, just speculation.

Which is the thing, we *think* he doesn't know. Or he might know and not be saying. Or he might have his own ideas but doesn't consider them any more or less "official" than anyone else's.

So if I go out and create a reason for the Day of Mourning, I'm not potentially contradicting real lore, albeit unknown real lore.

Meanwhile, I *KNOW* whatever I do with Aroden is contradicting official lore. That will always be in the back of my mind.


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Doktor Weasel wrote:
Elfteiroh wrote:
Set wrote:

[...]

I'm still salty about the Time of Troubles, and the blowing up of the World of Darkness certainly didn't do White Wolf any favors.

Well, they kinda tied themselves up with this one, promising there will be an end of the world... they postponed it for some years, but it went stale and it was becoming kind of a joke that the end would never come. When came the time to make a new edition, they realized it was the time to fulfill the promise, and it let them make the big tonal shift then wanted to make (the old tone was also getting out of fashion fast).

Personally, I loved that change, as the old tone felt weird to me, and the new one was way more my kind of horror. But eh, now they are releasing new books again (even if they could choose some better people to write some of them...)
I actually rather prefer the New Wod too (although I've only played the new Mage). The old one had so much Early Installment Weirdness that got grandfathered in. Like True Anythings. Or Sam Haight. And everyone of importance in history was a vampire. The new Wod seemed more focused on being monsters as opposed to superheroes. Of course they lost a lot of the people who liked the old way, because it was a huge change. I think they expected Exalted would be able to keep them in the black.

Haha, yeah, I agree on all that.

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Doktor Weasel wrote:
I actually rather prefer the New Wod too (although I've only played the new Mage)

If you have a reasonably mature group who will play it with you, track down New Changeling immediately. While it's assuredly not for everybody, Changeling: the Lost is the single most impressive thing WW ever put out (and still more accessible than "Old Wraith" but the themes in C:tL are genuinely heavy).

And now back to your regularly scheduled Pathfinder Playtest.

OH YEAH. Went from my least favorite from the old to my absolute favorite in the new.

Sorry sorry... That was the last post OOT from me. *bow*

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Jester David wrote:


Meanwhile, I *KNOW* whatever I do with Aroden is contradicting official lore. That will always be in the back of my mind.

But it's not contradicting official lore. There is no official lore. Stuff said in private in the Paizo office isn't official canon unless it wins up in the books.

The Exchange

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I would like for some of the APs to have ended badly. That meaning that not everything had a happy ending. Maybe Jade Reagent ended but it set of a huge war among the various nations near by because they sensed a power vacuum. Cheliax lost a few colonies and provinces into new nations, but it triggered a massive polarization of the loyalists turning the core nation into a deeper hell hole. The Worldwound closed but it wasn't as clean as we thought and small pits into the abyss cracked open from the stress of the main opening closing. Taldor united under a new emperor who's really big into reclaiming old territory and is arming for war. Serpent cultists spilled across the Inner Sea after losing one of their main temples and are teaming up with other factions adding new players, etc. There is a mad rush to find the other Runelords before they wake up because they are ticking timebombs.

Etc. A little good, a lot bad. And loads of new things to deal with. Oh, and Sandpoint? Taken over by Vikings!

Stuff like that.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

As much as I look forward to the changes, especially any "offical" endings for the Adventure Paths; I kind of hope that the recent adventure paths are not part of these official changes.
They will still be pretty new by the time 2nd edition comes out (Especially Rise of the Runelords and War for the Crown) and adventures people will still be playing at that time. It would be a shame if their finale was spoiled for people simply because its mentioned in the new rulebook.

Liberty's Edge

Been reading the Midgard Campaign Setting of late. As I look at the Innersea World Guide one thing I really miss is a sidebar of adventure hooks...

A lot of places in the world likely wouldn't change much. Nex and Geb have been at war for so long, a decade is nothing.
And Nidal has been largely stable for a number of years longer than recorded human history on Earth. It should be unaffected.

Brevoy
I think that the noble houses should change here. Maybe one house having been all but wiped out (so PCs can be the last) and another all but bankrupt, while two or three lesser houses have ascended in power.

Druma
This nation doesn't need many changes, but it's more a place you travel through or hail from rather than adventure. It's a nation of potential quest givers.
Perhaps they could be "purchasing" more stretches of Isger from Cheliax. They already owned tracts of land, so they could be slowly incorporating them officially.
The High Prophet Kelldor could also be facing rivals. Other wealthy factions that made money recently (perhaps selling weapons to Mendev).

Five King Mountains & Kyonins
Love to see the reclaimed Sky Citadel found by the Pathfinder Society being reclaimed by these guys (and made fully canon).
Honestly, it's odd Treerazer hasn't moved south and become a problem for the dwarves. It'd be interesting the dwarves of this nation are being forced to work with their northern neighbours, but blame them for driving a demon towards them. Has Treerazer given up on the Sovyrian Stone, or is it hoping to find an underground approach? Or is it aware of some dwarven relic that will aid in its quest?

Lastwall
The leader of this nation was once an unwed 19yo who was young but popular. He'd be much more experienced now. As he wanted to expand the borders of the nation, he might have pushed hard against the Hold of Belkzen.
I can see Watcher-Lord Ulthun II having worked tirelessly over the last decade to fortify and assault the orcs, continually working with fewer and fewer people as more knights moved to Mendev. The once noble young man might have grown bitter and weary from continually diminishing numbers of troops and supplies. While not quite middle age, a decade of hard living would have aged him. He might be looking at his life and seeing a string of failures. This might be driving him to do something foolish, to make his life matter. The PCs can either talk him down, work against him, or enable his bold plans.

Rahadoum
As the ultimate secular nation, this should be an interesting bastion of science of logic, but also a land of wizardry. A bit like the height of the Arabic empire where classical knowledge was translated and preserved.
Be nice if their land reclamaition projects were having some success and the encroaching deserts slowed.

River Kingdoms
The Emerald Spire and the crusader road region could need some formal inclusion.
No idea how the kingdom from Kingmaker could be incorporated without a name. Maybe a new region bordering on the River Kingoms. "The New Kingdoms" with the explicit text that they're being sparsely detailed and left for GMs to make their own.

Thuvia
By now, Artokus Kirran has been locked in the same citadel for over 3500 years, continually brewing Sun Orchid Elixir.
What happens if he decides to stop or thinks he's lived long enough? Or if the elixer stops working. But that's more of an adventure hook...


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TheLoneCleric wrote:

I would like for some of the APs to have ended badly. That meaning that not everything had a happy ending. Maybe Jade Reagent ended but it set of a huge war among the various nations near by because they sensed a power vacuum. Cheliax lost a few colonies and provinces into new nations, but it triggered a massive polarization of the loyalists turning the core nation into a deeper hell hole. The Worldwound closed but it wasn't as clean as we thought and small pits into the abyss cracked open from the stress of the main opening closing. Taldor united under a new emperor who's really big into reclaiming old territory and is arming for war. Serpent cultists spilled across the Inner Sea after losing one of their main temples and are teaming up with other factions adding new players, etc. There is a mad rush to find the other Runelords before they wake up because they are ticking timebombs.

Etc. A little good, a lot bad. And loads of new things to deal with. Oh, and Sandpoint? Taken over by Vikings!

Stuff like that.

That would definitely be interesting, to be sure. After all, a canonical ending doesn't have to be good.

There's a few you can't really have a "bad" ending for because of the implications on the whole setting. But with some of the smaller, more restrained APs I can see it happening.


We know that Hell's Vengeance didn't assume the Best ending for Council of Thieves, so we probably will get the "good, but not great" ending for a few of them. Like the relations between Ravounel and Cheliax might not be as good as they could be (we cleaned up in the negotiations in that one.)


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Aldarc wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


It isn’t. I’m disappointed I’m never going to know that answer. I’m not disappointed that there’s mysteries.
Then I would steer clear of Eberron, if I were you. Keith Baker, the creator of Eberron, deliberately created numerous setting-specific mysteries without any answers. Even he doesn't know nor does he care to provide any hard answers, just speculation.

I prefer that approach, actually. I’m a canon-junkie so if there is an answer I don’t want to make my own up. If they categorically state “this is a mystery that won’t be solved” then I’m happier to just go for it.

What’s always bugged me about Aroden’s death is that it’s so central to the background of the setting - it was a tumultuous, world-changing thing that’s still relatively recent (especially in a world of such long lived races). Early on, it seemed to me that the official word from Paizo was that they had an answer for internal consistency purposes that was never going to be revealed. It’s the one significant creative decision Paizo ever made that I strongly disagreed with.

Having said that. Erik Mona clarified that “the answer” isn’t really settled, even for them. it’s more a sort of guideline:

Erik wrote:

Would it interest you to know that I, the creator of Aroden and the publisher of the company, do not know the "real" story of his death any more than you do?

We have a working theory, a general concept that we keep in mind so that nothing we say in print specifically contradicts that version of events, but that's an internal thing to keep ourselves consistent. It's not public because it's not the actual answer, at least until we publish it. And we don't plan to publish it because we aren't as concerned with the _how_ as we are with the _so what now_ aspect of what becomes of culture when the most popular god dies.

so part of my discomfort with the decision arose from me misunderstanding their stance. Unfortunately, by the time I learned I had the wrong end of the stick, my irritation was kind of “baked in”.

Such is the curse of being an irrational human being. :(


TheLoneCleric wrote:

I would like for some of the APs to have ended badly. That meaning that not everything had a happy ending.

I believe James Jacobs has said this won't happen. (Though I suppose you could consider a victorious conclusion to Hell's Vengeance an unhappy ending.)

Quote:


Maybe Jade Reagent ended

*mind suddenly fills with visions of an AP all about alchemy*

Dark Archive

Albatoonoe wrote:
So, it has been confirmed that all APs will have happened? I know some were definitely moving forward, but I wasn't sure on all of them. I'd be okay with it, but I kinda want the worldwound to still be open, as well as certain other adventure be left unsolved. Otherwise, it does seem like a super dense decade for adventuring.

Do note it also applies to all modules.

Anyway, I wouldn't call it too weird since if you check timeline, there is actually lot of historical adventuring that has happened in Golarion. Lot of Pathfinder activity and stuff

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Elfteiroh wrote:
Set wrote:

[...]

I'm still salty about the Time of Troubles, and the blowing up of the World of Darkness certainly didn't do White Wolf any favors.

Well, they kinda tied themselves up with this one, promising there will be an end of the world... they postponed it for some years, but it went stale and it was becoming kind of a joke that the end would never come. When came the time to make a new edition, they realized it was the time to fulfill the promise, and it let them make the big tonal shift then wanted to make (the old tone was also getting out of fashion fast).

FWIW, simply for clarification since I originally brought it up, *I* was originally referring to the transition between 2nd ed and 3rd/revised-ed oWoD, not the transition to nWOD. (The metaplot problems others were referring to.) Where it was the same setting that they made massive, gamechanging alterations to in what otherwise should have basically been a rules streamline.

Although in the latter, the dozens of people I knew who were obsessed with oWoD dropped White Wolf products entirely because they wanted to play with their own apocalypses or lack thereof, not have the company just tell them what happened. Mind, all the reasons you state were good reasons to start from scratch, but the way they went about it left a sour taste in a lot of folks' mouths. (Even if the new game had a lot of better things about it.)

And to push what I'm saying toward the general topic here... you have to be very careful with metaplot in an RPG, because the point (IMO) of RPGs is that the ultimately the fate of a given scenario should be determined according to the PCs' actions. GMs also like the make their mark on a setting. The challenge of setting building in RPGs is making one with enough information to give GMs stuff to work with but also room to build on for their own visions. And players want to feel like whatever they did in the world made a difference. Declaring "canon endings" and the like suddenly just tells the players and GM that they don't matter at all. And if the players and GM don't matter, why should they bother playing?

So so, if you have an adventure where a ruler is deposed and one gaming group determined that Queen Griznobia will be the new leader, and one gaming group determined that High Grodmaster Effleplit was put in charge, and one left the whole region in anarchy, and another the PCs themselves became the ruling council... at least three gaming groups get pissed off about "their" ending essentially being invalidated. (At the same time, if you have a major adventure everyone's played through you want it to matter on some level, so how that adventure is plotted by the devs--to "guarantee" or not a certain canon ending while still allowing player agency--is tricky business. Fortunately I think the APs allow for that to a decent degree. I am sort of worried though for games like Kingmaker... as I'm sure many players put a unique stamp on the River Kingdoms that will all be disregarded if what happens to the RK gets canonzized. Or maybe Paizo has a plan for that, I don't know.

And all that said, I think Paizo's smart not to reveal the fate of Aroden. Precisely because there are probably many players and GMs with their own take on it, and as soon as you declare the "truth" everyone else feels discounted. Depending on how discounted they feel it may well lead to loss of sales so there's a line one has to dance with canon declarations very carefully.

Dark Archive

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the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Given the penchant of Razmir's faithful for masks, it's also entirely possible that somebody just took his spot.
"We are all Razmir."

Razmir was really the friends we made along the way.


Return of the Runelords is going to flip Varisia on its heads. A lot of stuff could be changing there, especially if the shackles are getting thrown off in terms of having to be worried about upsetting the time line in relationship to other APs, which it will be on account of being one of or the last AP of the existing system. WHo can't see a rune lord trying to make a slave army of goblins and having that fall apart and leave a new nation of less chaotic goblins trying to legitimize themselves? Or even some of the Runelords not being defeated/defeatable and Varisia becoming a global level threat.

I think that there is a lot more room for massive changes to be coming to Golarion in our two remaining APs than just asking what changes will have to happen out of APs.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Something worth pointing out. There is another 1E AP which we know nothing about after Return of the Runelords. I think one of the Paizo folks stated that will be the AP that deals with goblins now being at least sort of playable.

Liberty's Edge

MMCJawa wrote:
Something worth pointing out. There is another 1E AP which we know nothing about after Return of the Runelords. I think one of the Paizo folks stated that will be the AP that deals with goblins now being at least sort of playable.

Also very possible. Heck, they could do an AP with goblin PCs, that'd probably do it in-setting.

Silver Crusade

MMCJawa wrote:
Something worth pointing out. There is another 1E AP which we know nothing about after Return of the Runelords. I think one of the Paizo folks stated that will be the AP that deals with goblins now being at least sort of playable.

Do you (or does anyone else) have a source for this? I don't recall hearing that the last PF1 AP would address goblins.


Jester David wrote:


Which is the thing, we *think* he doesn't know. Or he might know and not be saying. Or he might have his own ideas but doesn't consider them any more or less "official" than anyone else's.

So if I go out and create a reason for the Day of Mourning, I'm not potentially contradicting real lore, albeit unknown real lore.

From what I have heard, Keith Baker has provided multiple answers to the same mystery across books and his own campaigns.

Quote:
Meanwhile, I *KNOW* whatever I do with Aroden is contradicting official lore. That will always be in the back of my mind.

True, but I like that. It puts you in the mind of the people inhabiting the world who likewise don't know. That said, I best like the hypothesis that Aroden died (somehow) to destroy Pharasma's link with prophecy for the sake of mortals.


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Also the Doomsday Dawn Playtest adventure is going to take place over several years leading up to 4718. This could include some significant additions to Golarion lore.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber
Joe M. wrote:
MMCJawa wrote:
Something worth pointing out. There is another 1E AP which we know nothing about after Return of the Runelords. I think one of the Paizo folks stated that will be the AP that deals with goblins now being at least sort of playable.
Do you (or does anyone else) have a source for this? I don't recall hearing that the last PF1 AP would address goblins.

Not off hand...I think it was in one of the early threads post announcement. I am not saying that the AP is ALL GOBLINS ALL THE TIME, just that they would be addressed in the last AP.


It would be really tough to have a 16ish level adventure about goblins. What you could easily do is have the PCs at some point take advantage of the charity of some genuinely nice goblins to establish that these things exist and have what the goblins want from the PCs in exchange is not monetary recompense or "go on a quest for us" but simply for the PCs to spread the word "hey, the [whatever] tribe is a-okay" and open some diplomatic or trade channels with important people the PCs are going to meet later.

If you have a 3rd level party get bailed out by some helpful goblins, some parties are going to spend the entire rest of the AP as "goblin spokespeople".

It's a little railroady but these are "Adventure Paths" and the writers generally assume the players are committed to the story in the sense along the lines in which it was intended. So sure there will be parties who will insist on fighting friendly goblins no matter what, but these people might have decided to get as far away from Briarstone Asylum immediately, Sail out of the Shackles as soon as they get a ship provisioned, become Chellish sympathizers in Kintargo, plan on betraying Thrune ASAP in Hell's Vengeance, etc.

If a GM can sell, "no, you hate Captain Harrigan to a degree that 'revenge' just seems like the best thing" a GM can probably sell "these goblins are all right".


Jester David wrote:

And Nidal has been largely stable for a number of years longer than recorded human history on Earth. It should be unaffected.

My assumption is that Zon-Kuthon has a direct hand in there at some level it is unlikely PCs could plausibly dislodge.

Quote:
No idea how the kingdom from Kingmaker could be incorporated without a name.

Isn't there a default name suggested for it in the text somewhere in case your players would rather not have to come up with one of their own ?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Perhaps with the time-travel element in the next Runelord AP, changes to magic will be explained and how there is now 10th level spells.


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Ioun wrote:
Perhaps with the time-travel element in the next Runelord AP, changes to magic will be explained and how there is now 10th level spells.

I sure hope not. There are few things in this world that are as horrible as time-travel retcons. It's a horrible cop-out. Also time travel is inherently problematic, and I'm really wary of it's inclusion. And frankly, I don't think 10 spell levels really needs an in-game explanation. It's mechanical not really setting.


I'd like to see Nex a bit more unstable to set up a new AP. The Council of Three changing combined with the implied turmoil that already exists amid the Nine could be a very interesting campaign. Add in the setting has a villain next door with whom war could be disastrous, and a wildmagic desert where Guns were invented, and I think it is perfectly primed for a group of adventurers to go 'fixing' things.

Also would like to see more with Sarusan, though I understand Paizo wants to leave some undefined regions in Golarion.


Paradozen wrote:

I'd like to see Nex a bit more unstable to set up a new AP. The Council of Three changing combined with the implied turmoil that already exists amid the Nine could be a very interesting campaign. Add in the setting has a villain next door with whom war could be disastrous, and a wildmagic desert where Guns were invented, and I think it is perfectly primed for a group of adventurers to go 'fixing' things.

Also would like to see more with Sarusan, though I understand Paizo wants to leave some undefined regions in Golarion.

Nex and Geb would be a great setting for an AP. And in fact, I think the whole of Garund needs a bit more love. We've had APs with Katapesh, the Shackles, Osirion and Sargava. Jalmeray has a lot of potential. Rahadoum could be interesting as well. Thuvia seems a little bit of a One Trick Pony, so maybe needs something to shake it up a bit. And Alkanstar is both a natural choice, and problematic because of the magic dead zones and such. The Sodden Lands also seem like a bit of an afterthought, or just a subsection of the Shackles. I'd kind of like to see some of the lands further south too.


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Isn't the "there are 10th level spells" thing just a renumbering anyway? So instead of 0th-9th level spells we'll have 1st-10th level spells?

Doktor Weasel wrote:
Alkanstar is both a natural choice, and problematic because of the magic dead zones and such.

I guess the inciting incident for this one would be "the magical dead zones start coming alive"?


I don’t know for the changes but Erik Mona said in another thread that if a place of setting did not received proper love in PF1 (the example was Razmir), they would get in in the first years of publications of PF2.


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SteelGuts wrote:
I don’t know for the changes but Erik Mona said in another thread that if a place of setting did not received proper love in PF1 (the example was Razmir), they would get in in the first years of publications of PF2.

Erik making a rod for his own back

Erik Mona wrote:
Basically if there's a place in the Inner Sea region that people have been begging us to cover from the beginning, you can expect it will get something significant within the first few years of the new edition.


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PossibleCabbage wrote:
Isn't the "there are 10th level spells" thing just a renumbering anyway? So instead of 0th-9th level spells we'll have 1st-10th level spells?

No, that is incorrect.

See here.

The 10 levels of spells do not include cantrips.


But cantrips are not a level of spell anymore, cantrips are not 0th level spells they are just cantrips. It's furthermore likely that some 9th level spells are becoming 10th level spells (e.g. Wish).

So I really don't think this needs a diagetic justification beyond "leading magical scholars have a new standard model of magic."


I look forward to the Resonance mechanic ushering in an age of distrust in consumable magic items. Potion Brewers, Scroll Scribes, Wandmongers, all of them suddenly thrust into a world where their products are unreliable in the hands of their best customers: Adventurers.

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