Hi all,
Just as the subject states. FoM calls out "Slow" which results essentially in the staggered condition, so would that also mean any effect that makes one staggered would not work vs FoM?
I believe the text in Freedom of Movement was referring to this part of the effect of Slow:
A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.
This is separate from the staggered effect of Slow.
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How Freedom of Movement works is a crap shoot. Ask your GM if they think staggered interacts with FOM.
If I were the GM in question I would tell you that it would depends on what causes the staggered condition. If you're staggered because you're hit points are equal to non-lethal damage, then FOM wont do anything (IMO).
Yes, you can be staggered while under FoM. Staggered is a mental condition, not a magical effect that slows your movement (which is what is being described).
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Something to keep in mind about conditions is that many of them have no implied cause or mechanism. Paralysis can be caused by physical means (such as poison) or mental means (such as the hold person spell). Staggered also has many means of being applied.
The entire effect of slow is to restrict your movement; a creature ignores the effects of slow entirely so long as it is also under the effects of freedom of movement. This includes the staggered condition.
If a creature gains the staggered condition through some means, then freedom of movement's applicability depends on whether the condition is the result of impeding the creature's movement as opposed to some other mechanism. As Claxon mentioned, a creature at the limit of its nonlethal damage capacity is staggered regardless of freedom of movement, as is a creature who makes its saving throw against overwhelming presence and is compelled to fight off the urge to prostrate before the caster.
Freedom of Movement
School abjuration; Level alchemist 4, bard 4, cleric/oracle 4, druid 4, inquisitor 4, ranger 4; Domain liberation 4, luck 4; Subdomain flowing 4
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a leather strip bound to the target), DF
EFFECT
Range personal or touch
Target you or creature touched
Duration 10 min./level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
DESCRIPTION
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing.
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The answer to your question is both yes and no; it's dependent upon the source of the stagger. The first sentence is the key factor: "This spell enables you or a creature you touch to MOVE AND ATTACK NORMALLY for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of MAGIC THAT USUALLY IMPEDES MOVEMENT, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web."
If you become Staggered by some effect, you cannot move and attack normally - you have to choose between a move or an attack action, and Freedom of Movement allows you to circumvent this condition. Such as, if you become Staggered from Frigid Touch, Freedom of Movement would counter this.
Frigid Touch
School evocation [cold]; Level bloodrager 2, druid 2, magus 2, sorcerer/wizard 2
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
This spell causes your hand to glow with a pale blue radiance.
Your melee touch attack deals 4d6 points of cold damage and causes the target to be staggered for 1 round. If the attack is a critical hit, the target is staggered for 1 minute instead.
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But, just as Claxon and blahpers have pointed out, there are ways of being staggered (like from non-lethal HP loss) which FoM does not counter. So it comes down to the source. If you're going to be staggered from a spell, SLA, or other ability, it is countered by FoM.
Did nobody read what I posted? There's a reduced movement effect in Slow separate from the staggered condition.
I believe the text in Freedom of Movement was referring to this part of the effect of Slow:
A slowed creature moves at half its normal speed (round down to the next 5-foot increment), which affects the creature's jumping distance as normal for decreased speed.This is separate from the staggered effect of Slow.
Here's a way to think about it that might help a bit:
Slow is the opposite of Haste.Where Haste grants an extra attack, Slow makes you staggered.
Where Haste grants numerical bonuses, Slow applies numerical penalties.
Where Haste doubles your speed, Slow halves your speed.
OK. And why does slow stagger creatures?
The peril of the RAW-obsessed is that the why *always* matters. In this case, one cause of staggered is not the same as another.
The slow spell staggers its victims because they're moving slowly, thus leaving them with fewer actions to fit into a 1 round time frame. The staggered condition is a handy way to represent that sluggishness, one that happens to be shared with other effects that don't represent moving slowly. Freedom of movement trumps slow, full stop, staggered and all, because the entirety of the effects of slow are the result of the target's movement being restricted.
There's a lot that can be argued about FoM, but it does specifically call out the Slow spell as being prevented.
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I'd say yes it applies to a SLOW SPELL. It is magic that is impeding movement. Doesn't matter how. The list is "such as" meaning "not limited to these examples, but definitely includes these examples." Slow is even on the list.
Now, the same person force marches until they are exhausted, or are under a heavy load. That is on them. They are staggered and move slower because this is not MAGIC. FoM doesn't do a darn thing for them.
That's my 2 cents.
I'd say yes it applies to a SLOW SPELL. It is magic that is impeding movement. Doesn't matter how. The list is "such as" meaning "not limited to these examples, but definitely includes these examples." Slow is even on the list.
Now, the same person force marches until they are exhausted, or are under a heavy load. That is on them. They are staggered and move slower because this is not MAGIC. FoM doesn't do a darn thing for them.
That's my 2 cents.
While I agree with your end result in the case provided, I don't agree with your reasoning of "because this is not magic". FoM applies to more than just magical effects.
"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement..."
Even in this case means in addition to non-magical effects. Further example, grapple is not a magic effect (at least not usually) but FoM works. Being underwater is not a magic effect, but applies.
Ultimately though FoM is going to come down to a GM decision. Some people feel it should allow movement while staggered for any reason at all. Others don't.
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I'd say yes it applies to a SLOW SPELL. It is magic that is impeding movement. Doesn't matter how. The list is "such as" meaning "not limited to these examples, but definitely includes these examples." Slow is even on the list.
Now, the same person force marches until they are exhausted, or are under a heavy load. That is on them. They are staggered and move slower because this is not MAGIC. FoM doesn't do a darn thing for them.
That's my 2 cents.
While I agree with your end result in the case provided, I don't agree with your reasoning of "because this is not magic". FoM applies to more than just magical effects.
"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement..."
Even in this case means in addition to non-magical effects. Further example, grapple is not a magic effect (at least not usually) but FoM works. Being underwater is not a magic effect, but applies.
Ultimately though FoM is going to come down to a GM decision. Some people feel it should allow movement while staggered for any reason at all. Others don't.
Right, the question becomes "is staggered a normal condition" - if it is, then you move slowly "normally while staggered." Personally, I've always ruled the same way you do, with it not mattering if the person was staggered prior to the spell, and during the spell they aren't staggered. But it brings up a whole can of worms when a barbarian rages and then suffers no consequences afterwards because of a FoM ring or spell. Most times, after raging, the battle is over so it is not a problem. 9/10 times it won't matter. 1/10 times if you think it runs different than you ran it the other 9 times, you are probably wrong. This is the reasoning for why staggered doesn't matter whence it came. And the reasoning for why you are not staggered under FoM (yeh, I know I said you were, and you technically are, and will return to suffering from it after FoM wears off).