PFS #9-17: Oath of the Overwatched

[Derwalt]

I’m preparing this scenario for tonight (danish time, in approx 5 hours). Great scenario! Really looking forward to it :)

I’m thinking about the last encounter right now - on the low tier - where should Corner of Spheres start out? He has blindsense so has sensed the PCs coming from 120 feet away - so shouldn’t he Airwalk about 30-60 feet straight up and wait there?

Rules question: The Yangethe has the grab special ability (with it’s tentacles) with a +18 on CMB - shouldn’t this be 19, adjusting for Weapon Focus? And if it does not take a -20 to its grapple check, it goes into full on grapple, which takes a standard action - but then it cannot use its feeding tentacles, as they too require a standard action - correct? ...because then I don’t think it will ever get to use those feeding tentacles a lot...

[Utii]

Quicken true strike + 19 grapple = +19 when it makes a grapple check and then it can still do feeding tentacles

[andreww]

Utii wrote:

Quicken true strike + 19 grapple = +19 when it makes a grapple check and then it can still do feeding tentacles

The feeding tentacles are used as a standard action. It has to grapple someone first and then the following round it uses them, forgoing any other attacks. Also, as it hasn't maintained the grapple whoever it was grappling is now free.

They aren't really very useful in combat but work well on unconscious people. Obviously unless the group flee that isn't very likely to come up but if someone did get left behind and need a body recovery they are probably getting rescued with 0 charisma and are therefore also going to need a restoration.

[andreww]

OK, I have now played this and have prepped it to run in a week or so. It is a brilliant adventure, packed full of flavour and interesting lore revelations. However, there are some issues:

1. Status effects, this one has loads of them. This seems like a feature of season 9, drop multiple status effects on everyone as much as possible until someone fails. One encounter potentially has you tracking nausea, confusion, daze, poison and a unique attack penalty effect. Each of them are of varying duration. That's a lot to keep track of.

2. Editing. This needed another editing pass, especially around the library/ritual section. It is quite confusing and the information is not well laid out. In particular, the names of the rituals are only used in the rituals section. The tomes don't give you the name, either in the library section or the handout.

The benefits for the spawn contains at least one error. Starry Revelations is supposed to give puffing chest, this doesn't exist. I assume it is instead supposed to be morale.

The effect of the non ritual books really needed to be called out more clearly, perhaps in a side bar. The effect of the Precautions tome seems to be entirely missing.

It is unclear when you get shunted. Can you make use of the 6th phase and then jump out of the door or does that force you to be shunted out? The text is ambiguous.

3. Encounters. These all look great with the exception of the optional. Optional encounters often have a reputation of being the hardest going, these look very much to be the opposite of that. Given this looks like it runs long I would skip these every time. We took the better part of 6 hours and we weren't slow by any means. Our GM did make a mistake thinking each tome had a ritual which slowed us a little but not that much.

[crashcanuck]

For the new familiar, how is it able to use Spell Trigger and Spell Completion magic items when based on it's age category it has no Caster Level?

[GreyYeti]

Graham Wilson wrote:

For the new familiar, how is it able to use Spell Trigger and Spell Completion magic items when based on it's age category it has no Caster Level?

the same way most familiars that are able do that are doing it, using the "use magic device" skill.

[Damien_DM]

In Subtier 8-9, Daosvaria's initiative is listed as +0, but she has Improved Initiative and Dex 11, so it should be +4.

[Isabelle Lee]

Make sure she doesn't have any special qualities modifying her initiative. The statblock went through significant changes from my (frankly, way overcomplicated) original version, but I think she originally had one. At the very least, the initiative modifier may have slipped through when her feats got changed around.

[crashcanuck]

Frankly I found Daosvaria to be the bigger encounter when I ran this at high tier. My party almost collectively went "oh s#^%". I loved RPing her, esp since she just stopped fighting after 3 rounds and exclaimed "I'm bored"

[wolaberry]

I was just going to consider the "melted" book to be Precautions. Assuming the party collects enough books on Sunday of course.

Really looking forward to running this at high tier. My only fear is the PCs will make the diplomacy check to the point the don't even fight Daosvaria. Not getting to make a True Strike, Power Attack, Fly-By Attack bite will make me a bit sad.

[Damien_DM]

Isabelle Lee wrote:

Make sure she doesn't have any special qualities modifying her initiative. The statblock went through significant changes from my (frankly, way overcomplicated) original version, but I think she originally had one. At the very least, the initiative modifier may have slipped through when her feats got changed around.

I took another look, and I don't see anything that would cause her a -4 penalty to initiative. I do note that the Subtier 5-6 stat block does factor in her Improved Initiative feat.

If the stat block underwent significant revision though, it could be something that simply wasn't caught in the final version. Or maybe I'm just missing something.

[Damien_DM]

We see the return of nonsensical questions in the encounter with the spawn of spheres. I thought I'd generate a list of questions to throw at the party for the encounter. Here's what I have currently. If anyone wants to add more, be my guest!

Note that the first two come from the scenario itself.

1. How do you add the sand to breathe?
2. Why are arms more colorful than legs?
3. Is the pivoting of dreams the heart of sentience?
4. Why is a heart without heat better than a tree without wisdom?
5. Why do you use the same orifice for ingestion, exhalation, and conversation?
6. Why are 11 and 56 different in your conceptual structure?
7. What is the bristlestick?
8. At physical termination, do thoughts ensoul?
9. When breath is held, why is it not contained within your appendage?
10. Why do you travel in four dimensions?
11. Does flesh part with the burning ice?
12. Why do you kill to cure?
13. How is the wind different from eternity?
14. What sensation does quality yield?
15. How can cognizance exist in such a modular framework?
16. How is victory defined?
17. How can spells without mouths bite my eyes?
18. What is your truth?
19. Why do you describe death and taxes as inevitable, but not breathing or poetry?
20. Under what circumstance do you conduct gravity?

[Terminalmancer]

I'll have more to say on the topic of this scenario later, I'm sure. For the moment, though, I just want to express how happy you made me by making Ralzeros and Daosvaria speak Yaddithian.

[Isabelle Lee]

That was as much ego as anything - I wanted to reference the one race I've written. And if anyone on Golarion would be the one to speak it, it's Ralzeros. ^_^

[thistledown]

I'm confused on what constitutes falling into the green mist. Is it only falling off the islands, or is it the little green splotches on B4, the island next to it, and the island right of B2? If it's the former, I only really see it coming up if someone tries to D-Door and falls short.

[Terminalmancer]

Well, you can try to have a fungus pull a PC off the island. I almost--almost!--made that work.

[andreww]

I took falling into the mist just being the stuff between the islands. I could totally see a spawn trying a speculative bull rush to knock people off the islands given how tight the quarters are there, especially at high tier. Likewise I could see PC's giving it a go.

[thistledown]

andreww wrote:

Utii wrote:

Quicken true strike + 19 grapple = +19 when it makes a grapple check and then it can still do feeding tentacles

The feeding tentacles are used as a standard action. It has to grapple someone first and then the following round it uses them, forgoing any other attacks. Also, as it hasn't maintained the grapple whoever it was grappling is now free.

They aren't really very useful in combat but work well on unconscious people. Obviously unless the group flee that isn't very likely to come up but if someone did get left behind and need a body recovery they are probably getting rescued with 0 charisma and are therefore also going to need a restoration.

Sadly, it lacks Combat Reflexes. Still, it might be able to snag one person per turn just for approaching.

[thistledown]

In high tier, I'm assuming the Vespergaunt begins off the map. Otherwise the deeper darkness it lurks in would prevent anyone from seeing the box text or Daosvaria.

[andreww]

That was how I ran it. I had it move over the altar area on its turn on the first round. Sadly the group I ran it for recently (6 level 8 characters) had no way to deal with it bar a single dispel magic which failed (high tier Corners CL is very high). This was despite having a cleric, magus and arcanist in the group. They ended up running but not before several were dead. It could easily have been a tpk but I had Corner sit around watching them for a couple of rounds.

[thistledown]

I'm running high-tier tonight for a Sorcerer, 2 Fighters, and a Medium spec'd for melee combat. This does not look like a promising party.

[eddv]

What should be done if the PCs choose not to investigate the Library in much detail?

I am running for a group of 4 that appears to be a Cavalier, a rogue, a kineticist and a Ranger - not exactly the most scholarly group, conceptually. I could very easily see them deciding not to look too hard at the library and try to move right past it even after hinting that research might yield some benefits.

Do they get containment breaches for not finding the books or do they avoid them by hurrying?

[GreyYeti]

There is no way to leave the library unless the 2 hours are up or they find the 5th book.

If they do nothing, they don't get the breaches for failing to find books, but they might get breaches for the events happening.

[andreww]

Also they get a bunch of breaches if they are dumped out into the lab.

[wolaberry]

They can wander around for the two hours, but odds are they are going to get a bunch of breaches just for waiting around. I made sure my players knew two things in the library.
1 - You are on a clock, you don't know how long but something else is here and pushing against the gate. Not seeing a door right away got them to start looking in the stacks.
2 - The description of each section, how the areas get weirder as they go forward in time. So exploring each section will give them clues to what they are facing. I made a handout for the library and told PCs what skills they can use.
I had a full table with several players that could hit DC25+ on knowledge checks. They split between sections and had the books and rituals done in an hour. Even the nonbrainy people got to help on a research section which was great.

edit: IIRC the four player adjustment drops the DCs, but if they don't even try there is no way to avoid the breaches. There is also a bit of damage for getting dumped into the lab. If a group gives this section a pass I don't think its possible to get the second prestige. Letting a Venture Captain get beat up is bad form.

[andreww]

Not performing any of the rituals means you lose out on several opportunities to reduce your number of breaches.

[thistledown]

James Anderson wrote:

I'm running high-tier tonight for a Sorcerer, 2 Fighters, and a Medium spec'd for melee combat. This does not look like a promising party.

Ok, we got a 5th player, who went Arcanist. They got the books in 2 rounds (only one failure from the split party, and that off by 1), then did the first 2 rituals. They wanted to save the lab as a resource for the society if possible so held off on the third.

Made a new doll for dragongirl then got a 51 on their diplomacy with her.

Down to the lab! This is where the table started to get unhappy. The shear number of will saves in the last act really grated on them. I'm tempted to play this with my wyrwood instead of the witch I had planned, so that I'd be amusingly immune to much of it. Fun fact though: constructs aren't immune to nausea. It's just that it typically comes from fort saves, which they ARE immune to. But here we've got nausea from a will save, which would work (though it's mind affecting, so still immune)

At first we thought the nausea would be a problem, but they had done the ritual, so it was just sickened. A good fireball near the start, then they didn't have much trouble mopping up the rest. They didn't have time to fight the mindshards, but they diplo'd past them anyways. Then the big event. The aura only managed to snag the arcanist, and only for 1 round (remembered this morning the he was still in the aura when it wore off, so should have made a new save, but oh well). They used an oil of daylight to bring it up to natrual (dim) light, and the miss chance was a problem to the fighter for a while. The arcanist enervated the sorcerer, but only for 1 level. The sorcerer then got scared by a rhu, and d-doored out. Lucky for him 60' out was on a platform. He eventually came back and talked at ralzeros for a while, while the fighters wailed on Corners. Could have probably moved Corners to a better spot, but we were low on time, so I just had him beat up the fighter, who was amazing at his will saves. Eventually they beat it down.

will save count:

Entry: 1 party wide or special
Fungus 1: party wide or sickened
Fungus 2: party wide or sickened
(Fungus 3 & 4 died to fireball before they got to go)
Spawn 1: targeted or confused
Spawn 2: targeted or confused
Spawn 3: targeted or confused
Corners aura: party wide or confused
Corners on hit 1: targeted or negative level
Corners on hit 2 (not round 1): targeted or negative level
Rhu-Chalik 1: targeted or Frightened + wis damage
Rhu-Chalik 2: targeted or Frightened + wis damage
Rhu-Chalik 3: targeted or Frightened + wis damage

So, even in just 1 round for each fight, that was 4 party-wide will saves and 7 targeted will saves. And the second fight went for a few rounds.

[thistledown]

andreww wrote:

I took falling into the mist just being the stuff between the islands. I could totally see a spawn trying a speculative bull rush to knock people off the islands given how tight the quarters are there, especially at high tier. Likewise I could see PC's giving it a go.

Ah, hadn't thought of it before, but was obvious at game time. Trying to fly between the islands without using the bridges would expose to the mist.

[eddv]

Oh I somehow missed that there is no way to escape the Library without finding 5 books, ok I guess I will see how they manage to fumble through this.

[TriOmegaZero]

This scenario is wonderful. We went in with a low party playing high and were on the edge of our seats most of the time. With a proper in-tier party it would have been less stressful, but overall I really enjoyed the madness and challenges.

[Dokomo]

Minor nitpick, the first mention of pastlight is when the PC's ask Razelros "What is pastlight?" How do they know its name to ask the question?

[Isabelle Lee]

Ralzeros the Overwatched, as a prideful and obsessive wizard, originally had far more expository dialogue. Development trimmed his ramblings down to a more manageable amount. ^_^

[thistledown]

Stuart Tindall wrote:

Minor nitpick, the first mention of pastlight is when the PC's ask Razelros "What is pastlight?" How do they know its name to ask the question?

He's around the whole time they're in the library. Certain books mention pastlight, so that question seems more for after they find one of those books and ask him 'hey, what's this?'

[CanisDirus]

So, apparently I missed it when I was prepping this scenario for the table I ran at InConJunction this weekend...but was "Precautions" intended to be a red herring? Seeing as the book isn't mentioned after being acquired, I could see that being the case. Alternatively, was it supposed to have a mechanical benefit (which is alluded to but never outright stated)?

All in all, my players loved this scenario, and when I told them that it was the same author of their favorite Numerian-tech scenario, there was outright applause at the conclusion of the game!

[andreww]

Mike Bramnik wrote:

So, apparently I missed it when I was prepping this scenario for the table I ran at InConJunction this weekend...but was "Precautions" intended to be a red herring? Seeing as the book isn't mentioned after being acquired, I could see that being the case. Alternatively, was it supposed to have a mechanical benefit (which is alluded to but never outright stated)?

I asked about this and several other things a while back but got no answer. As much as I really like this scenario the editing is pretty horrible.

[Isabelle Lee]

The entire library subsection got redesigned from my original (much more complicated) version, so I'm afraid I can't really offer any insight here.

[FLite]

If just being Psychic Sensitive gives a +4 to find the most significant book, how much of a bonus would the spell "Detect Psychic Significance" give in searching the library?

[Isabelle Lee]

At the barest minimum, I think an additional +2 circumstance bonus is in order. Beyond that, I'm not sure... it's a somewhat abstract system, and a cantrip probably shouldn't unbalance it too much. ^_^

[thistledown]

Jared Thaler wrote:

If just being Psychic Sensitive gives a +4 to find the most significant book, how much of a bonus would the spell "Detect Psychic Significance" give in searching the library?

I don't think it would help at all really. "Is there something significant in 40' of me?" - 'yes, the entire library'.

[Qstor]

andreww wrote:

That was how I ran it. I had it move over the altar area on its turn on the first round.

question:

did you have it cast deeper darkness in a surprise round?

[Ascalaphus]

James Anderson wrote:

Jared Thaler wrote:

If just being Psychic Sensitive gives a +4 to find the most significant book, how much of a bonus would the spell "Detect Psychic Significance" give in searching the library?

I don't think it would help at all really. "Is there something significant in 40' of me?" - 'yes, the entire library'.

Well the whole point of that cantrip is to sift through and tell you which objects are particularly interesting. All the ways to actually read psychic impressions are day-limited, the cantrip is meant to help you not waste power on insignificant objects.

The question Detect Psychic Significance asks isn't "are there significant objects at all", but "which of these objects are significant".

If psychic sensitivity helps narrow things down, this one should too.

[thistledown]

Mike McKeown wrote:

andreww wrote:

That was how I ran it. I had it move over the altar area on its turn on the first round.

** spoiler omitted **

The tactics state he's already lurking in deeper darkness. And for him, the spell lasts 150 minutes and he casts it at-will. So he already had it up when they got to the map. The party just saw a wall of darkness behind the alter. I don't remember if I ran a surprise round or not.

[thistledown]

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

James Anderson wrote:

Jared Thaler wrote:

If just being Psychic Sensitive gives a +4 to find the most significant book, how much of a bonus would the spell "Detect Psychic Significance" give in searching the library?

I don't think it would help at all really. "Is there something significant in 40' of me?" - 'yes, the entire library'.

Well the whole point of that cantrip is to sift through and tell you which objects are particularly interesting. All the ways to actually read psychic impressions are day-limited, the cantrip is meant to help you not waste power on insignificant objects.

The question Detect Psychic Significance asks isn't "are there significant objects at all", but "which of these objects are significant".

If psychic sensitivity helps narrow things down, this one should too.

I really dislike the spell, as players try to use it for 'detect plot'. I give them a recognition that items in range are significant, but no more. It doesn't actually identify which items are causing that recognition.