New GM looking for help selecting class for a new player


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"I want to be Darth Vader" he said to me.

I kept my poker face and nodded thoughtfully. He's my brother-in-law so laughing in his face may not go over well at family functions. I also wanted to keep him interested. Maybe hanging out at the game table with my friends in professional careers will get him to log off of his XBox and move on from working school security.

"I'll see what I can do."

So I've considered Magus for him, but I'm worried about how complex the class is. Not to mention, I feel Jedi/Sith are much closer to a fighter/sorcerer mashup than a fighter/wizard mashup. The Eldritch Scion doesn't seem like much fun at low levels and still has the complexity problem.

I'm going to run them through Crypt of the Everflame as a starter. All five players are new to Pathfinder, but 4 of them have played AD&D back when Reagan was President.

I'm beginning to think the answer to this Jedi/Sith type of feel character lies with the Kineticist. Maybe the Kinetic Knight? Anyone have any additional thoughts on this? It's actually a pretty interesting challenge to fit the game to someone's expectations.

This is my first post. Thank you for taking the time to read it.


I feel like there were more questions that needed asking there. Does he want to wear black armor? Be a cyborg? Make heavy breathing noises? Openly advocate a philosophy of brutal conquest? Rule an empire? Strangle people without touching them? Use a light-sabre? Tell people he's their father?


Matthew Downie wrote:
I feel like there were more questions that needed asking there. Does he want to wear black armor? Be a cyborg? Make heavy breathing noises? Openly advocate a philosophy of brutal conquest? Rule an empire? Strangle people without touching them? Use a light-sabre? Tell people he's their father?

Those are all questions which MUST BE ANSWERED! :)

I believe he wants to have a martial character with some supernatural abilities. Knowing him, black armor is probably part of the flavor as well.

As of this moment, I do not expect heavy role-play elements from him. In the future, perhaps. But for right now, I think rolling dice and the illusion of power by way of spike damage is where he's at.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I don't recommend the kinetic knight, because it trades out ranged blasts. Maybe a kineticist /fighter multiclass. Get him an adamantine longsword and it can withstand the damage dealt via kinetic blast when you do the lightsaber throw and charge it into a lightsaber. You can get to about 7th level as a kineticist before the damage has a better than even chance of damaging the sword, assuming a con of 14.


tyrant antipaladin with a conductive weapon


Samurai mashed up with Mesmerist? I don't know either class that well...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Vader didn't use many mind-manipulative aspects of the force. His uses were more physical, the force choke, telekinesis, enhancing his physical powers. I don't really recommend mesmerist for him.


Inquisitor could work


I think you could build something he would like with a bloodrager. A bit of magic, but a solid enough martial chassis that not being great using magic most effectively won't cripple the character.

If you wanted to go an extra step you could even homebrew a 'Dark Side' bloodline for him.


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Dave Justus wrote:

I think you could build something he would like with a bloodrager. A bit of magic, but a solid enough martial chassis that not being great using magic most effectively won't cripple the character.

If you wanted to go an extra step you could even homebrew a 'Dark Side' bloodline for him.

I second Bloodrager. Especially if you start at 1st level, straight up melee with the rage, easy enough to learn, and very powerful for a new player (who doesn't love smashing in CR1 in a single blow). Doesn't get magic till level 4, which gives him enough time to learn the system a bit better by then. Some bloodlines give you a little bonus at level 1 to strike (like elemental, infernal), which is great to play with.


What are exactly the features he wants to emulate from Darth Vader?
If he wants all of the features of a Sith (Telekinesis, Rays, Mind Control) I would go for an Eldritch Knight. You can thematically start from an Arcanist Blade adept Archetype if the priority is the sword or from Wizard Sword Binder if the priority is having spells early.

If mind control is not required I second aether kineticist as was suggested by Val'bryn2.

One of my players is a fire one and he did pretty well in a sword contest I organized to introduce an important NPC. He used a fire sword he conjured, so if aether does not have this infusion you can house rule it and replace one of the aether infusions of the same level for the aether sword.

Another option which needs reflavouring is an spiritualist Phantom Blade. It is simmilar to the magus, but he can wear the armor he wants since it uses psychic magic. The spell list has no charm person or suggestion though, and telekinesis comes very late.

PILFERING HAND is a very nice spell for him and it is shared between a lot of clases.


I would suggest Rage Prophet. Barbarian archetype of your choosing, invulnerable would work well, then oracle with the haunted curse and the metal mystery. Gain mage hand, levitate, telekinesis and reverse gravity from the curse, and take Vision in Iron for scrying, skill at arms for heavy armor, and armor mastery to make full plate suck less for you. Pick up a bastard sword(post armor Vader always fought with two hands anyway), eventually make it adamantine.

Spontaneous spells are some of the easiest to learn for a new player, and the oracle has some decent ones. Command, Divine Favor, Augury, Boneshaker, Bull's Strength, Hold Person, and Sense Fear all fit, and those are just levels 1 and 2


the rage class feature just doesnt screem darth vader though were as anti paladin has an archetype literally called what vader is a tyrant. plus they get heavy armor proficiency which will be needed for that black full plate armor he wears. gets to improve his light saber for free via fiendish boon, and can smite all those good guys which is something vader does often, aura of cowardice also plays into the vader persona as well as cruelties and aura of despair.


If his goal is massive amounts of spike damage, Magus is the king of that realm. It's not terribly complex at 1st, just need to figure out spellbooks and spell combat. Antipaladin or Bloodrager are good runner-ups, just make sure he knows he won't be getting magic for a few levels, and IIRC, won't be getting it in that adventure. If you're not planning to play beyond Crypt of the Everflame, definitely Magus.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Haunted Oracle ain't a bad suggestion. Pretty much gets the force powers from the curse, and Vader seems like he would jive well with a curse. And then the mystery can fill in the martial aspect.


I am currently playing a Jedi-like mind blade magus. I'm finding even at 4th level that its a little more complex than I originally thought. He primarily manifests a green, longsword mind blade. His feats are weapon focus (longsword), combat casting, and improved unarmed strike (prerequisite for deflect arrows). He is building up to Cut from the Air from the Weapon Master's Handbook. I tried to select spells to emulate Jedi powers as much as possible (mage hand, message, expeditious retreat, anticipate thoughts, etc.). I chose Focused Mind and Inspired as character traits. Hope my example helps!


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Captain Morgan wrote:
Haunted Oracle ain't a bad suggestion. Pretty much gets the force powers from the curse, and Vader seems like he would jive well with a curse. And then the mystery can fill in the martial aspect.

Plus, the curse totally jives with the movies. Name one time a character drops something and it lands less than 48 feet away.

I'll wait.


If you allow Psionics, he could play a Soulknife. They can create a mind blade out of kinetic energy from their mind (light saber) and they get some simple psionic powers (the Force) if they go with the Gifted Blade archetype.

Now just put him in some Hellknight Plate Armor :)

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife/

https://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/power-lists/power-list-gifted-b lade/

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/armor/hellknight-plate/

.

By the time he's level 20, he will only have a total of 7 of those powers listed, and he won't have a ton of Power Points either. This can both be fixed with feats and items. You can use Expanded Knowledge as a feat to gain a Power that doesn't appear on your class's power list (I have a couple of recommendations for this to make him feel very "Darth Vader-y"), AND you can use Mind Stones (items) to gain extra powers known from your own class list. Also, Cognizance Crystals can provide extra PP per day.

.

Psicrystal Affinity (feat) + Solicit Psicrystal (Power) + Telekinetic Maneuver (Power) = Telekinetic Grappling/Pinning/Disarming/Tripping/BullRushing. Basically, manifest the power Telekinetic Maneuver on someone, then use a swift action to have your Psicrystal maintain concentration of the power (for multiple rounds) while "Darth Vader" hacks them to pieces with his Mind Blade.

Detect Hostile Intent (Power) = Force Sense. You know when someone has hostile intentions towards you while they are within 30 ft of you.

Far Hand (Power) = Jedi telekinesis. This is a 0-level power and doesn't appear on the Gifted Blade power list. Either he can spend a feat to get this, or the DM can hand-waive this.

Telempathic Projection (Power) = Jedi Mind Trick. "You alter the subject’s mood, adjusting its attitude toward you by one step in a positive direction. For instance, an unfriendly creature can be made indifferent, or a hostile creature unfriendly. You can grant a +4 bonus on your own (or others’) Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform, or Sense Motive checks involving the affected creature."


It says "new player" in the title.

-- Make him a 1st-level fighter who wears a black trenchcoat and a mask. Give him the Masterful Demeanor and Dangerously Curious traits. (Cha score will be positive.)

Keep it simple, until he's more experienced. Otherwise you're going to blow his head off with minutia and gobbledegook.


Slim Jim wrote:

It says "new player" in the title.

-- Make him a 1st-level fighter who wears a black trenchcoat and a mask. Give him the Masterful Demeanor and Dangerously Curious traits. (Cha score will be positive.)

Keep it simple, until he's more experienced. Otherwise you're going to blow his head off with minutia and gobbledegook.

fighter is not the class for beginners.....


Slim Jim wrote:

It says "new player" in the title.

-- Make him a 1st-level fighter who wears a black trenchcoat and a mask. Give him the Masterful Demeanor and Dangerously Curious traits. (Cha score will be positive.)

Keep it simple, until he's more experienced. Otherwise you're going to blow his head off with minutia and gobbledegook.

He says he wants to be Darth Vader though. A concept character would be an awesome way to start playing D&D/Pathfinder, imo.


Lady-J wrote:
fighter is not the class for beginners.....

It requires the least work to do what it is expected to do.


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Ryze Kuja wrote:
He says he wants to be Darth Vader though. A concept character would be an awesome way to start playing D&D/Pathfinder, imo.

Sure. And the next new player wants to be Yoda.

<slide over a gnome bard character-sheet>


Kineticist
aether
Kinetic Blade = light saber

You can lift and throw enemies.

it would not be op to let him strangle enemies.


There is a d20 Star Wars game. You could just let him play a Jedi Guardian in Pathfinder.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm going to repeat myself, and say Aether kineticist with a dip in Fighter for armor and a sword. He's a new player, so just make some cards to summarize the powers as their equivalent Force abilities. Telekinetic Blast becomes Force Throw, with the Pushing infusion to allow knockback. Foe Throw, when they get it, becomes Force Push. He can even get Force Choke, as the Suffocate wild talent is an Aether talent as well as an air one.


Slim Jim wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
fighter is not the class for beginners.....
It requires the least work to do what it is expected to do.

to get it to do what you want and expect it to do, a fighter is the most experience intensive class in the game, you need to know exactly what you are doing and exactly what feats you will take at what level, its even less beginner friendly then the wizard. anti paladin is much simpler, just keep track of your passive buffs and smite when needed and pretty much any build can work for it, and it much more beginner friendly then even the paladin cases which is pretty beginner friendly save for their code.


Slim Jim wrote:
Ryze Kuja wrote:
He says he wants to be Darth Vader though. A concept character would be an awesome way to start playing D&D/Pathfinder, imo.

Sure. And the next new player wants to be Yoda.

<slide over a gnome bard character-sheet>

Umm.. F&*! yes. If I had a brand-new player who has never played D&D or Pathfinder in his life, who then said I want to be Darth Vader during a campaign I was running, I would say F&*! yes. Here's option A, B, C and maybe this other D thing. Which would you prefer?

If that same player came to me and said "I want to be Yoda" in the next campaign, I would say F&*! yes, and then sacrifice a youngling, and hand him a Gnome Bard character sheet.

I would not hand this player a Fighter character sheet even if I was paid 40 gold dragons and 100 silver stags.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm in favor of the concept characters as well for new players, after all, by being familiar with the character, you KNOW how they play. Especially if you can get your abilities built into shorthand like "Force Push" for Foe Throw or Telekinetic Blast+Push Infusion, or "Chidori" for Shocking Grasp+Charge Action. With that done, you don't have to explain their abilities multiple times, they can already visualize what they do.


Etob wrote:
If his goal is massive amounts of spike damage, Magus is the king of that realm. It's not terribly complex at 1st, just need to figure out spellbooks and spell combat. Antipaladin or Bloodrager are good runner-ups, just make sure he knows he won't be getting magic for a few levels, and IIRC, won't be getting it in that adventure. If you're not planning to play beyond Crypt of the Everflame, definitely Magus.

Or Psychic Warrior, sort of like Magus, but Psionic.


Lady-J wrote:
tyrant antipaladin with a conductive weapon

Maybe Hellknight?


Lady-J wrote:
the rage class feature just doesnt screem darth vader though were as anti paladin has an archetype literally called what vader is a tyrant. plus they get heavy armor proficiency which will be needed for that black full plate armor he wears. gets to improve his light saber for free via fiendish boon, and can smite all those good guys which is something vader does often, aura of cowardice also plays into the vader persona as well as cruelties and aura of despair.

Rage doesn't scream Darth Vader, but it does scream Dark Side of the Force.

Yoda wrote:
Anger, fear, aggression, these things come from the Dark Side of the Force.
Darth Vader wrote:
You have controlled your fear. Now release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy me!


I'm almost wondering if this Darth Vader character should be a Psion Kineticist Discipline so his Psionic Powers are very powerful rather than being lack luster with the Gifted Blade Soulknife. He needs to get a Brilliant Energy weapon though. The problem is that Brilliant Energy, while very light sabery, is a +4 enchantment.


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Lady-J wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
Lady-J wrote:
fighter is not the class for beginners.....
It requires the least work to do what it is expected to do.
to get it to do what you want and expect it to do, a fighter is the most experience intensive class in the game, you need to know exactly what you are doing and exactly what feats you will take at what level

Which makes it exactly the same as every other character in the game that gets feats, which is all of them, and they get fewer. (We'll leave aside the odd corner-cases like Brawler, for the moment.) The fighter has way more flexibility in picking and retraining marginal feats that he decides he's tired of, and you don't need five-chain-deep complicated nonsense to be a decent fighter (not like you have any of that all glued down before high level anyway).

A "new player", by definition, doesn't yet even know how to do the basics: I.e., avoiding AoOs (because granting them to enemies is what kills most noob characters), full-attacking if you're capable, else circling for a flank (but only if no more bad guys are lurking), or avoiding melee because you know that this monster is not what you want to be messing with up close, and so forth. Fighting defensively, learning withdraw rules, developing the smarts to realize when a fight is going against you and it's time to retreat behind "Fresh Ally" while you fish out a ranged weapon, etc.

-- I wouldn't give the new player a barbarian because their AC is horrible, they get hit twice as often, and it only takes one extra hit at low level to motor through a measly few extra HP and then some.

Magus? OK, now he has to know how to cast spells too while learning all of this combat stuff and flouncing around in lighter armor. What spells (among hundreds of just 1st-level spells) to take, how they work, how to avoid AoOs (more ways to grant them as a fumbling magic-user), and all that jazz.

....what does Darth Vader do, anyway? Well, mainly he's a very intimidating badass. He fights with an awesome melee weapon (which I would gather the player does not expect to be a lightsaber when playing a medieval-fantasy game, but something reasonably tricked-up better-than-average). The Force-choke thing? Well, Anakin Skywalker couldn't do that either until he was like, what, an 11th-level(?) character and fell to the Dark Side?

What Vader is, is durable. He has armor and hitpoints, and can wade through a hallway filled with enemies and not go down. Straight up high-AC fighter territory. As a 1st-level character, Vader works best as a decent-charisma fighter with traits and skillpoints stroking Intimidation for viable out-of-combat utility.

Final note: Retraining rules exist, and it costs relatively measly gold to rework a character.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

For the lightsaber, that's another reason I suggest an adamantine longsword. Brilliant Energy does NOT equal a lightsaber. Remember, a lightsaber cuts through just about anything, a Brilliant Energy sword would fail to damage nonliving matter, so no cutting doors, no slicing up robots. Adamantine weapons, on the other hand, do all of that, so a lightsaber is best approximated by a +1 flaming adamantine sword. Bastard sword, most like.


Slim Jim wrote:
....what does Darth Vader do, anyway? Well, mainly he's a very intimidating badass. He fights with an awesome melee weapon (which I would gather the player does not expect to be a lightsaber when playing a medieval-fantasy game, but something reasonably tricked-up better-than-average). The Force-choke thing? Well, Anakin Skywalker couldn't do that either until he was like, what, an 11th-level(?) character and fell to the Dark Side?

and what class does intimidating with high ac best? anti paladin, they literally have an ability that strips away immunity to fear so they can intimidate more people they also get access to magic which would allow them to take a trait to get mage hand as a cantrip so they can mimic force powers as well as a few other powers the gm can even go into the list and pick out the most darth vader emulating abilities and be like use these spells they make you more darth vadery.


Anakin Skywalker (Vader) isn't chaotic-evil (required for antipaladin); he's a lawful-neutral who keeps failing will-saves to the Emperor (speaking of a guy who is manifestly chaotic-evil).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Emperor is Neutral Evil, only out for himself, able to plan long-term, and has more interest in conquest than in destruction. Vader would be Lawful Evil, which would be allowed by the Tyrant archetype as has been suggested.


A steelblooded bloodrager uses heavy armor (reasonably survivable + fits Vader), the rage feels like the Sith giving in to their emotions, and spells are introduced at a slow rate allowing them to learn before getting them. The destined bloodline is fairly simple to use and fits well.


Lady-J wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:

It says "new player" in the title.

-- Make him a 1st-level fighter who wears a black trenchcoat and a mask. Give him the Masterful Demeanor and Dangerously Curious traits. (Cha score will be positive.)

Keep it simple, until he's more experienced. Otherwise you're going to blow his head off with minutia and gobbledegook.

fighter is not the class for beginners.....

Fighter is complicated to build, easy to play.

If you're building the fighter, it has no expendable resources and numbers do not need to be recalculated round-to-round.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
For the lightsaber, that's another reason I suggest an adamantine longsword. Brilliant Energy does NOT equal a lightsaber. Remember, a lightsaber cuts through just about anything, a Brilliant Energy sword would fail to damage nonliving matter, so no cutting doors, no slicing up robots. Adamantine weapons, on the other hand, do all of that, so a lightsaber is best approximated by a +1 flaming adamantine sword. Bastard sword, most like.

Another thing you can do for a lightsaber is just let him use a lightsaber. There is a d20 Star Wars Games. They have Light Sabers. You could just let him have that.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

One D20 game does not equal another. Just because they use the same basic mechanic, you cannot tell me that the Strong Hero from D20 Modern, the Fighter from Pathfinder, and the Soldier or Jedi Guardian from Star Wars D20 are all of equivalent power.


Slim Jim wrote:
Anakin Skywalker (Vader) isn't chaotic-evil (required for antipaladin); he's a lawful-neutral who keeps failing will-saves to the Emperor (speaking of a guy who is manifestly chaotic-evil).

there are more ways of being an anti paladin then just chaotic evil


Val'bryn2 wrote:
One D20 game does not equal another.

Yeah, so?

Val'bryn2 wrote:
Just because they use the same basic mechanic, you cannot tell me that the Strong Hero from D20 Modern, the Fighter from Pathfinder, and the Soldier or Jedi Guardian from Star Wars D20 are all of equivalent power.

I don't see the relevance, here. Just because some classes are weaker than others doesn't mean you can't play them or use some elements in the rules from one to play in the other.

D20 Star Wars characters are not usually as powerful as Pathfinder characters, but there's nothing wrong with playing a sub-optimal character.

Besides, we don't know how powerful the other PCs in the party are going to be: they might all be sub-optimal.

Anyway, it is up to the GM--the OP--to collaborate with the players to create challenging and engaging adventures for characters they are excited about playing. A GM shouldn't give a player everything they want the way they want it, but since there does just happen to be a rules set that already exists that describes what the OP's PC asked for, he should at least consider it.

I stand by my advice.


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Val'bryn2 wrote:
Emperor is Neutral Evil, only out for himself, able to plan long-term, and has more interest in conquest than in destruction. Vader would be Lawful Evil, which would be allowed by the Tyrant archetype as has been suggested.

The Emperor was a cackling maniac whenever he revealed his true persona (e.g., as while fighting Yoda). He didn't give a damn for anyone else's rules, and reveled in the destruction of his own personnel and equipment. He was a Sith following the "Rule of Two". It was an ego-driven head-trip, and raw power is how a Sith climbed up, and all he craved. Nothing else mattered. The reason for being top dog? So you could finally let your hair down, society be damned, and fully embrace the psychotic monster inside you.

Vader, otoh, ..what did he do? Mainly, he did his job. Outside of deliberate orders, he kills only when aggravated. He isn't happy with his life, and truly doesn't care a wit for the Empire, but can't do anything about it (imagine being conscious of the fact that you're Dominated by a more powerful being that you can't shake -- that's the position he's in). He does not use his powers to get rich or other manner of personal advancement (such as scheming to murder his way up the Imperial command hierarchy; for example he ranks underneath Tarkin in the original film despite that personage lacking any Force-powers).

Lastly, Luke "saw the good in him", and he was not wrong. So, LN best fits Vader. He's basically a Hellknight in unbreakable thrall to a malevolent entity.

Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Fighter is complicated to build, easy to play.
They're drop-dead easy to build: keep your physical stats decent, and don't sack wisdom. That's about it. Feat-wise, well, all those combat feats other classes take are just as good for you, and you get more of them. (I'll tell him to play a dwarf, but Vader hasn't had his legs cut off...more on that later.)
Quote:

If you're building the fighter, it has no expendable resources and numbers do not need to be recalculated round-to-round.

That, right there, gets to the bane of all existence in RPGs-without-engines, and why seemingly "boring" core classes are still fan-favorites even over others with clear mechanical edges given system mastery.

Val'bryn2 wrote:
For the lightsaber, that's another reason I suggest an adamantine longsword. Brilliant Energy does NOT equal a lightsaber. Remember, a lightsaber cuts through just about anything, a Brilliant Energy sword would fail to damage nonliving matter, so no cutting doors, no slicing up robots. Adamantine weapons, on the other hand, do all of that, so a lightsaber is best approximated by a +1 flaming adamantine sword. Bastard sword, most like.

A "generic" lightsaber is a 2d8 19-20/2 weapon whose properties, when transposed from SWd20 into Pathfinder, can only really be described as "epic-level artifact": Since it can cut through almost anything that isn't another lightsaber, that ability has to be a +5 (over Brilliant Energy's +4). Dodge and various magical/mystical bonuses to AC are all that seem effective (i.e., if you have +2 plate, you'd get +2 to AC). Throw in Vorpal, because no kidding. I'd also give it the Speed property since the "blade" is weightless (but even so, one may use strength to attack, and gain the usual 2h 1.5x bonus). Has some penalties to Stealth, as you would expect.

So..... What would be the ramifications of handing a 1st-level character a 4,500,000gp epic weapon?

From the moment he first turns it on, I'm guessing 1d20 hours until the first top-drawer wetwork squad on the continent is Teleported in on a mission to retrieve that goodie for their employer. That is, if *deities* don't immediately show up.

If the player is lucky, they'll take it before he's accidentally amputated more than one important body part.


Slim Jim wrote:
They're drop-dead easy to build: keep your physical stats decent, and don't sack wisdom. That's about it.

no its really not, building a fighter is one of the most complicated things in game if you don't want it to suck.

also vader is lawful evil, he committed several genocides

and with a 2d8 19-20x2 stat a light saber would be on par with a large adamantine bastard sword

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The reason Vader didn't seek to murder his way up Imperial command was because he was ALREADY THERE. He was on loan to Tarkin, true, but it was because he was there to help with Tarkin's project. He had his personal legion, he only answered to the Emperor, and remember, at the end, he WAS planning to overthrow the Emperor, at the first opportunity he had that would REMOTELY have a chance of succeeding. When you're a cyborg on life support, you don't lightly move against the man who can fry your motherboard in a single move. He wasn't "mind controlled" he was manipulated. That was Palpatine's main goal, Vader CHOSE to work with the Sith. Palpatine may have manipulated him, but it was Anakin Skywalker who killed the Tuskin Raider tribe, men, women, and children, and slaughtered the Jedi younglings who thought he would protect them. He deliberately slaughtered children, and you claim he was Lawful Neutral?

And no, you can't just port classes over and have it work out with any semblance of balance, you would have to do a fair bit of converting because there are things in each system that aren't in the other.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
And no, you can't just port classes over and have it work out with any semblance of balance, you would have to do a fair bit of converting because there are things in each system that aren't in the other.

I'm listening. Maybe the OP is too. What problems is the OP going to run into if he lets a Pathfinder character take levels in the Jedi Guardian Class? I've built a few d20 Star Wars characters. I don't see much problem. D20 Star Wars characters seem less powerful than Pathfinder Characters, but not ridiculoualy so, especially if you let them take Pathfinder Feats. Using the Force uses the Skills mechanics, which is unusual, but hardly unworkable. But I'm interested. What am I overlooking? Maybe we can find solutions to the problems you see.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well for one thing, you need to decide on Hit Die, since they use a Wound Point /Vitality Point system, and the damage of those abilities are centered around that. The strongest that Vader can be in Star Wars d20, he can do 3d6 damage using Force Grip. That doesn't even compare to a 2nd level spell. How do you handle the fact that defense is rather different in the two systems? Will everyone have Force Points, or just Vader? And how much of the rest of the system are you allowing in?

My main point is that there are ways to make Darth Vader as a Pathfinder character, or at least close enough to be recognizable, without having to bring in an old system that has a few compatibility issues.


Val'bryn2 wrote:
Well for one thing, you need to decide on Hit Die, since they use a Wound Point /Vitality Point system

Meh, Vitality are hit points. Jedi Guardians get 1d10/level. That's fine.

Val'bryn2 wrote:
The strongest that Vader can be in Star Wars d20, he can do 3d6 damage using Force Grip. That doesn't even compare to a 2nd level spell.

The power of the Force is not as powerful as magic, but it's useful. Jedi get exclusive access to light sabers which do 2d8 for starters and do an extra d8 every 5 levels. Jedi Guardians are full BAB characters, so the fact that they don't get as much magic is not a big deal.

Val'bryn2 wrote:
How do you handle the fact that defense is rather different in the two systems?

Defense isn't especially different. D20 Star Wars Characters get an Armor Class Bonus that increases as they gain levels. That's all right.

Val'bryn2 wrote:
Will everyone have Force Points, or just Vader?

Just Vader. That's what I would do. He'd be the only one with a Light Saber. If I were worried it was too powerful, I'd make him start without a light saber and have it something he will learn how to build when he reaches level _________________. I probably wouldn't allow any other tech into the universe, unless I wanted to.

Val'bryn2 wrote:
how much of the rest of the system are you allowing in?

Mostly none of it. I'd use all Pathfinder rules. I'd let the character take Star Wars Feats and Skills with the caveat that there is not Star Wars tech except maybe his own personal light saber. I'd also let him use Pathfinder Feats and Skills, which I think are much better.

Val'bryn2 wrote:
My main point is that there are ways to make Darth Vader as a Pathfinder character, or at least close enough to be recognizable, without having to bring in an old system that has a few compatibility issues.

Cool.

My point is that rules describing what the OP's player wants already exist with just a few compatibility issues. It can be a valuable resource to him, and if he can get his hands on the books, there's no reason why he shouldn't make some use of them rather than reinvent the wheel.

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