Baffled by Bantrids


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I mean, with PF2 looking to tighten restrictions, we have to go somewhere...

More seriously, we've already been through this. I distinctly remember a thread about how the Shobhad were too strong for melee, and I'm sure we will continue to get options that are effective. I view the increase in good options to be beneficial, but YMMV.


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Okami Atari wrote:

The RACE looks interesting, bug It is the worst playable race i have ever read in any RPG. You are forfeiting half roleplayers Who play mostly for the rules:: Darkvision, stand from prone, inmunity to stinky cloud and 10 extra move with almost no drawback at all because there is no special rule for having no proper hands, head or feet. Seriously?

Everyhting you have done well in core starfinder regarding game balance you have screewed up with some features in this book, It looks as you are trying to lure back munchkings into the game

I have read this a few times and still can't figure out if you are being serious. The species is quirky but I wouldn't think anything about them is over powered. Swift action to stand prevents full attacks, not that amazing but neat. Immune to an extremely small selection of smell based hazards? Mweh, have you seen SROs resistances? Those seem much more useful if you just want mechanical advantage. Bas edd speed of 40 when you could just take any race with blitz soldier and fleet for speed of 50 at level 1? Ok, so the Bantrid can get to 60, still not that extreme of a difference. What about the naturally flying/floating races who ignore rough terrain and can't set off floor traps?

What build are you thinking of where the Bantrid breaks the game?


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Torbyne wrote:
why does that Bantrid have a boot collection?

One from each leggy that he's killed...


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Okami Atari wrote:

The RACE looks interesting, bug It is the worst playable race i have ever read in any RPG. You are forfeiting half roleplayers Who play mostly for the rules:: Darkvision, stand from prone, inmunity to stinky cloud and 10 extra move with almost no drawback at all because there is no special rule for having no proper hands, head or feet. Seriously?

Everyhting you have done well in core starfinder regarding game balance you have screewed up with some features in this book, It looks as you are trying to lure back munchkings into the game

Um, what? They don't need "rules for proper hands, head or feet", because they are *supposed* to be perfectly functional in such regards, just like every PC race. Which is to say, they have perfectly functional hands and "feet", just different from that of humanoid races.

Besides, why exactly would they need some kind of penalty? Almost none of the other races have racial penalties, aside from a few of the half-races with their "can be effected by different typed effects" property.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I don't think they're any more powerful than any of the other races in Alien Archive.


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Everyone can activate their space suits and be immune to stink attacks. OTOH, if there is a smell-based clue, the Bantrid will miss it.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I'll just leave this here.

You go on ahead and tell me if you think that is broken or not.


Starfinder Superscriber

Okay, wait. I am the munchkiniest munchkin in munchkin land. I am the munchkin emperor (though, none of the other munchkins recognize my authority, they all think they're the emperor).

I really want to play this race, but it has litterally zero do do with any of their abilities. I can't even remember what they are off the top of my head.

I want to play this race for the sole reason that they're one of the weirdest things I've ever seen in a game. If anything, this is making me want to role-play.


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pithica42 wrote:
I really want to play this race, but it has litterally zero do do with any of their abilities. I can't even remember what they are off the top of my head.

I believe ya bro.

I love how the developer referenced Barlowes Guide to Extraterrestrials. What a great source of scifi nutty inspiration. I remember buying that many many years ago, and you just gave me a good reason to pull it off the shelf and page through it.

Scarab Sages

Torbyne wrote:
Okami Atari wrote:

The RACE looks interesting, bug It is the worst playable race i have ever read in any RPG. You are forfeiting half roleplayers Who play mostly for the rules:: Darkvision, stand from prone, inmunity to stinky cloud and 10 extra move with almost no drawback at all because there is no special rule for having no proper hands, head or feet. Seriously?

Everyhting you have done well in core starfinder regarding game balance you have screewed up with some features in this book, It looks as you are trying to lure back munchkings into the game

I have read this a few times and still can't figure out if you are being serious. The species is quirky but I wouldn't think anything about them is over powered. Swift action to stand prevents full attacks, not that amazing but neat. Immune to an extremely small selection of smell based hazards? Mweh, have you seen SROs resistances? Those seem much more useful if you just want mechanical advantage. Bas edd speed of 40 when you could just take any race with blitz soldier and fleet for speed of 50 at level 1? Ok, so the Bantrid can get to 60, still not that extreme of a difference. What about the naturally flying/floating races who ignore rough terrain and can't set off floor traps?

What build are you thinking of where the Bantrid breaks the game?

SROs have 2 HP and receive half the usual magic healing a change to refer to robotics nature.

Strix only move 20 in land so it can be seen as a flying RACE.

Bantrid has no rule At all which could make you think it is not humanoid but the aberration type. I dont know yet how much smells are used in starfinder, but only being inmune to stinky cloud would be a great advantage in many Pathfinder modules. And Where is the mouth? How do they communicate?


Starfinder Superscriber

Mouth is on top of their head (we think), between the two sets of tentacles and behind the pointy crown in the center. They speak through it, or possibly through all those weird holes on their fronts (or both).

But, more to the point, I'm looking at their entry and comparing it to Goblins, Ysoki, and several others and I'm really really not seeing anything even remotely out of line with any of the other races. They look to me like a standard race. I'm failing to see how they're a 'munchkin' option.


pithica42 wrote:

Mouth is on top of their head (we think), between the two sets of tentacles and behind the pointy crown in the center. They speak through it, or possibly through all those weird holes on their fronts (or both).

But, more to the point, I'm looking at their entry and comparing it to Goblins, Ysoki, and several others and I'm really really not seeing anything even remotely out of line with any of the other races. They look to me like a standard race. I'm failing to see how they're a 'munchkin' option.

Bantrids are not a munchkin option. I'd put forth that dragonkin are probably a "munchkin" option. I just don't like bantrids because they can't be real. They have symmetry, but they remind me of somebody's bad dream connecting a sea anemone with a ball for locomotion. And they are sapient to boot. Therefore, I won't allow one in my games.


Okami Atari wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Okami Atari wrote:

The RACE looks interesting, bug It is the worst playable race i have ever read in any RPG. You are forfeiting half roleplayers Who play mostly for the rules:: Darkvision, stand from prone, inmunity to stinky cloud and 10 extra move with almost no drawback at all because there is no special rule for having no proper hands, head or feet. Seriously?

Everyhting you have done well in core starfinder regarding game balance you have screewed up with some features in this book, It looks as you are trying to lure back munchkings into the game

I have read this a few times and still can't figure out if you are being serious. The species is quirky but I wouldn't think anything about them is over powered. Swift action to stand prevents full attacks, not that amazing but neat. Immune to an extremely small selection of smell based hazards? Mweh, have you seen SROs resistances? Those seem much more useful if you just want mechanical advantage. Bas edd speed of 40 when you could just take any race with blitz soldier and fleet for speed of 50 at level 1? Ok, so the Bantrid can get to 60, still not that extreme of a difference. What about the naturally flying/floating races who ignore rough terrain and can't set off floor traps?

What build are you thinking of where the Bantrid breaks the game?

SROs have 2 HP and receive half the usual magic healing a change to refer to robotics nature.

Strix only move 20 in land so it can be seen as a flying RACE.

Bantrid has no rule At all which could make you think it is not humanoid but the aberration type. I dont know yet how much smells are used in starfinder, but only being inmune to stinky cloud would be a great advantage in many Pathfinder modules. And Where is the mouth? How do they communicate?

Is RACE an acronym for something?

Racial HP only counts at level 1 anyways, being down 2-4 points across the entire game is barely worth mentioning. Half magic healing but able to be healed by anyone with the engineering skill, which is far more common as a skill. And that doesn't address their huge list of immunities, saving throw bonuses, no need to eat or drink or breathe... so we can assume they are also immune to smell based effects. So what about SROs makes them weak vs the Bantrids?

Strix fly, yes, that was the point, so what if its speed 20, it can be boosted easily. And it makes them immune to tripping and floor traps, seems better than Bantrids just at that.

I am not even sure you are disagreeing with me I your post though... and I still don't see what about Bantrids is supposed to be so powerful.


Yakman wrote:
Masked Participant wrote:

My players can't seem to get over the fact that they are essentially sentient phalluses that get around on their giant balls...

Hard to get to such interesting topics as what their clothing or armor should look like or how it should operate, or how they would manipulate things, when no one can keep a straight face.

Even if they could get there, someone will inevitably bring up rain coats or hard hats or other euphemisms for protection.

dude.

dude.

that was... not cool.

EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED.

Oh no, it's the Jehetma from stellaris all over again.


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I haven't read the Cluster series, and I only checked out Barlowe's from the library many years ago, but wasn't the polarion's sphere an "egg" or an egg container for future offspring?

Maybe the bantrid's sphere starts as an unfertilized egg (eggs?)/ovum (ova?) that the growing bantrid covers up with layers of nacre and necessary trace minerals? Perhaps the nacre contains RNA and epigenetic coding that an individual bantrid "writes" into each layer based upon its life's experiences and environment? When bantrids mate, they exchange spheres, in the process fertilizing the new sphere's ovum. While the growing offspring gestates, the prospective parent build up their fat and carb stores. A baby bantrid dissolves/eats the minerals and ancestral memory/RNA/epigenetics encoded in the nacre sphere. When the baby bantrid is ready, it uses acid to dissolve a plug in the sphere and hatches free. Over the following days, the parent deposits a new ovum in the now hollow sphere, fills it with new food stores and nutrients, and then secrets a plug to repair the hole in the sphere.

Edit: OK, this seems to contradict the text in Pact Worlds that says bantrids reproduce by budding.

Also, it just now occurs to me the bantrids may have a deity/deities/legendary characters similar to the King of All Cosmos and the Prince from the Katamari video games.

Paizo Employee Developer

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Sir RicHunt Attenwampi wrote:
Also, it just now occurs to me the bantrids may have a deity/deities/legendary characters similar to the King of All Cosmos and the Prince from the Katamari video games.

Great, now THAT song is stuck in my head.


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Jason Keeley wrote:
Sir RicHunt Attenwampi wrote:
Also, it just now occurs to me the bantrids may have a deity/deities/legendary characters similar to the King of All Cosmos and the Prince from the Katamari video games.
Great, now THAT song is stuck in my head.

Legends say that the Prince was the first to understand the song of the sphere. For through him the King crafted the stars through the roll of the Prince's grand cosmic Motion. Rolling up the old universe to craft the new.

The Old Tales say that among the greatest of the Prince's challenges was the acquisition of a sufficiently large cow.

Scarab Sages

Torbyne wrote:
Okami Atari wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Okami Atari wrote:

The RACE looks interesting, bug It is the worst playable race i have ever read in any RPG. You are forfeiting half roleplayers Who play mostly for the rules:: Darkvision, stand from prone, inmunity to stinky cloud and 10 extra move with almost no drawback at all because there is no special rule for having no proper hands, head or feet. Seriously?

Everyhting you have done well in core starfinder regarding game balance you have screewed up with some features in this book, It looks as you are trying to lure back munchkings into the game

I have read this a few times and still can't figure out if you are being serious. The species is quirky but I wouldn't think anything about them is over powered. Swift action to stand prevents full attacks, not that amazing but neat. Immune to an extremely small selection of smell based hazards? Mweh, have you seen SROs resistances? Those seem much more useful if you just want mechanical advantage. Bas edd speed of 40 when you could just take any race with blitz soldier and fleet for speed of 50 at level 1? Ok, so the Bantrid can get to 60, still not that extreme of a difference. What about the naturally flying/floating races who ignore rough terrain and can't set off floor traps?

What build are you thinking of where the Bantrid breaks the game?

SROs have 2 HP and receive half the usual magic healing a change to refer to robotics nature.

Strix only move 20 in land so it can be seen as a flying RACE.

Bantrid has no rule At all which could make you think it is not humanoid but the aberration type. I dont know yet how much smells are used in starfinder, but only being inmune to stinky cloud would be a great advantage in many Pathfinder modules. And Where is the mouth? How do they communicate?

Is RACE an acronym for something?

Racial HP only counts at level 1 anyways, being down 2-4 points across the entire game is barely worth mentioning. Half magic healing but able...

No acronym, just my autocorrector

Not that they are too powerful but munchkin, munchkin is not always a synonim of powerful but those Who break the illusion of the game breaking rules. you have a race with no proper arms, legs or head but no problem to climb, dress, conceal weapons or play a piano because the rules doesnt prohibit them even when it is described as having only hands instead of arms. How could you depict a bantrid disguised as storm trooper for example?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Presumably the bantrid would follow BB-8's example from The Last Jedi , when he disguised himself as one of those "mouse droids" by wearing a box on his head and imitating their distinctive beeps...


Or like Solid Snake and his cardboard boxes.

Fortunately, felinekin and catfolk get a +4 on Perception checks vs. boxes.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
EltonJ wrote:
pithica42 wrote:

Mouth is on top of their head (we think), between the two sets of tentacles and behind the pointy crown in the center. They speak through it, or possibly through all those weird holes on their fronts (or both).

But, more to the point, I'm looking at their entry and comparing it to Goblins, Ysoki, and several others and I'm really really not seeing anything even remotely out of line with any of the other races. They look to me like a standard race. I'm failing to see how they're a 'munchkin' option.

Bantrids are not a munchkin option. I'd put forth that dragonkin are probably a "munchkin" option. I just don't like bantrids because they can't be real. They have symmetry, but they remind me of somebody's bad dream connecting a sea anemone with a ball for locomotion. And they are sapient to boot. Therefore, I won't allow one in my games.

Wait, so you won't let your players play ALIEN races because in a scifi fantasy game because...they're too alien? Too unreal?

Seriously!?

Bantrids are aberrations, and the whole schtick about aberrations is that they are unnatural, and shouldn't exist as they are, but do so anyways.

You really need to just let it go man. That kind of limited thinking and restrictive attitude is not going to be terribly conducive to a fun game.


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Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:
EltonJ wrote:
pithica42 wrote:

Mouth is on top of their head (we think), between the two sets of tentacles and behind the pointy crown in the center. They speak through it, or possibly through all those weird holes on their fronts (or both).

But, more to the point, I'm looking at their entry and comparing it to Goblins, Ysoki, and several others and I'm really really not seeing anything even remotely out of line with any of the other races. They look to me like a standard race. I'm failing to see how they're a 'munchkin' option.

Bantrids are not a munchkin option. I'd put forth that dragonkin are probably a "munchkin" option. I just don't like bantrids because they can't be real. They have symmetry, but they remind me of somebody's bad dream connecting a sea anemone with a ball for locomotion. And they are sapient to boot. Therefore, I won't allow one in my games.

Wait, so you won't let your players play ALIEN races because in a scifi fantasy game because...they're too alien? Too unreal?

Seriously!?

Bantrids are aberrations, and the whole schtick about aberrations is that they are unnatural, and shouldn't exist as they are, but do so anyways.

You really need to just let it go man. That kind of limited thinking and restrictive attitude is not going to be terribly conducive to a fun game.

When I play any of the Star Wars RPGs, I make sure to remove all the FTL travel and force powers. It just breaks my immersion too much.


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From a biological standpoint Bantrids are more real than dragons.


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I will allow my players to play a bantrid but DEMAND that they make silly driving noises when doing so.


Big Lemon wrote:
I will allow my players to play a bantrid but DEMAND that they make silly driving noises when doing so.

Fine but only while this is playing


Big Lemon wrote:
I will allow my players to play a bantrid but DEMAND that they make silly driving noises when doing so.

Any time they take more than a single move action, they are restricted to left turns only.


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Starfinder Superscriber

Speaking of noises, does anyone have a clue on Bantrid language?

I'd really like to have a race that can't speak common (well can't vocalize it) a la Chewie, and I'm thinking it would be fun for a Bantrid to speak only in 'Bantridian'. Extra fun if it's just a series of car honking noises.

Dark Archive

I personally want to see Bantrid starship crew

Mostly because it would be cute as hell, but also to see how they would pilot a starship :D


I'm sure accessibility for alien races costs no extra fee when purchasing a starship.

Nor should it cost that much to adapt existing vehicles.


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Starfinder Superscriber

It's all treadmill chairs in the bridge.


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pithica42 wrote:
It's all treadmill chairs in the bridge.

Please stop this thread keeps getting better every time I evne think of the race.


Starfinder Superscriber

Bantrids can't stop. :P


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pithica42 wrote:
Bantrids can't stop. :P

They don't have a breaking system and reproduce aesexually.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
pithica42 wrote:
Bantrids can't stop. :P

Bantrids WON'T STOP! :D


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Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
pithica42 wrote:
It's all treadmill chairs in the bridge.

I imagine they're not really chairs so much as hemispherical holes in the floor that they can "slot into." The interior sides of the whole have little to no friction, so the bantrid can roll their ball to their heart's delight while they focus on the ship's functions. A crew of bantrid would look like a bunch of stalks or stalagmites growing out of the deck flooring. :D :D :D


Big Lemon wrote:
I will allow my players to play a bantrid but DEMAND that they make silly driving noises when doing so.

And equipped with banana peels and an assortment of koopa shells.


Unapodia as the key insight


Starfinder Superscriber

Vroom Vroom! Out of my way I'm a motorist!


Ravingdork wrote:

I'll just leave this here.

You go on ahead and tell me if you think that is broken or not.

Honestly that is probably more of a selling point for the race than a detraction. You can make some super fast moving nose wheel thing if you really spend a lot of skills/abilities focused on gaining speed. Hell I can picture this thing zooming around with its lil arms waving like kermit the frog as it frantically zooms about.


Ravingdork wrote:
EltonJ wrote:
pithica42 wrote:

Mouth is on top of their head (we think), between the two sets of tentacles and behind the pointy crown in the center. They speak through it, or possibly through all those weird holes on their fronts (or both).

But, more to the point, I'm looking at their entry and comparing it to Goblins, Ysoki, and several others and I'm really really not seeing anything even remotely out of line with any of the other races. They look to me like a standard race. I'm failing to see how they're a 'munchkin' option.

Bantrids are not a munchkin option. I'd put forth that dragonkin are probably a "munchkin" option. I just don't like bantrids because they can't be real. They have symmetry, but they remind me of somebody's bad dream connecting a sea anemone with a ball for locomotion. And they are sapient to boot. Therefore, I won't allow one in my games.

Wait, so you won't let your players play ALIEN races because in a scifi fantasy game because...they're too alien? Too unreal?

Seriously!?

Bantrids are aberrations, and the whole schtick about aberrations is that they are unnatural, and shouldn't exist as they are, but do so anyways.

You really need to just let it go man. That kind of limited thinking and restrictive attitude is not going to be terribly conducive to a fun game.

There actually are a few aberrations PC races. The gas floater guys from brethda, bantrids and there were at least a couple more from alien archives. I think aberration in starfinder is less weird outsider like pathfinder and more just very very alien or specialized to a highly unusual environment.


The Ragi wrote:

I'm sure accessibility for alien races costs no extra fee when purchasing a starship.

Nor should it cost that much to adapt existing vehicles.

I would presume most vehicles have some kind of holographic omni interface that you can set in your preferences and it will adjust itself to you and your desired interface/input output options.

The trickier ones would be the plant guys who have vibration sense and life sense but are otherwise blind but in theory you could do acoustic holograms and things like that for an interface or use bio organic interfaces.


Starfinder Superscriber
kaid wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I'll just leave this here.

You go on ahead and tell me if you think that is broken or not.

Honestly that is probably more of a selling point for the race than a detraction. You can make some super fast moving nose wheel thing if you really spend a lot of skills/abilities focused on gaining speed. Hell I can picture this thing zooming around with its lil arms waving like kermit the frog as it frantically zooms about.

You can do the exact same thing with a Shohbad or Nuar, though. And even a goblin would only be 5ft slower if you had the same build. Frankly, if you're pushing your speed up above 100 or whatever, even the 10ft loss from being a normal human isn't any less broken.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The con and dex bonuses are pretty attractive too I think.


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pithica42 wrote:
kaid wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:

I'll just leave this here.

You go on ahead and tell me if you think that is broken or not.

Honestly that is probably more of a selling point for the race than a detraction. You can make some super fast moving nose wheel thing if you really spend a lot of skills/abilities focused on gaining speed. Hell I can picture this thing zooming around with its lil arms waving like kermit the frog as it frantically zooms about.
You can do the exact same thing with a Shohbad or Nuar, though. And even a goblin would only be 5ft slower if you had the same build. Frankly, if you're pushing your speed up above 100 or whatever, even the 10ft loss from being a normal human isn't any less broken.

If you want to get real freaky, a Solarian bantrid with Stellar Rush and Blazing Orbit. He can charge a total of 120ft and leave a trail of flames for the first 40 (blazing orbit as a move action, charge as a standard via stellar rush).


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Cool!


TarkXT wrote:
From a biological standpoint Bantrids are more real than dragons.

No, that is not correct. A bantrid's locomotion in particular needs just as much handwavium as a dragons flight or fire breath. There is a reason no real world animal has wheels.


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The video discusses wheels, not spheres. Of which examples are provided in nature that function, just not as a main means of locomotion. Legs work fine for terrestrial creatures on Earth. But Bantrids don't come from Earth, in fact they don't even know where they're from.

As to how they develop it's pretty clear this form of locomotion doesn't really impair their ability to say climb or swim meaning their upper bodies are highly flexible and probably have an ancestor relativley close to snails or slugs. With that in mind it's easy to think that those tiny hands in that still picture doesn't really tell the whole story as they can likely extend quite a bit and curl to give grip and flexibility. Useful when picking fruit above the bantrid and moving it to their mouth.

My best guess is they developed on a high gravity world where open spaces and dangerous predators caused them to develop a means of motion that could easily handle the impact of high speed movement.

I'm thinking the ball is something that is constnatly excreted and grown by the bantrid and has no conscious way to let go of it. The constant need for motion is an instinctive need to wear down and shape the sphere so it doesn't become irregular or uncomfortably large. It helps that constant motion meant a harder target for the Bantrids natural predators.


Pathfinder Maps, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

The mere fact that they are aberrations suggests that they did not develop naturally.


Ravingdork wrote:
The mere fact that they are aberrations suggests that they did not develop naturally.

Suggests but doesn't confirm. Aberration in Starfinder I feel is just a catch all for creatures that don't fit into the paradigm of plant/animal/vermin/humanoid.


Yeah, the sphere to me is less a wheel on an axle than it is a ball in a socket, and the real world animal kingdom is full of those, albeit nothing quite like what the bantrid has.

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