Will we be able to do things outside our specialization with a reasonable chance of success?


Prerelease Discussion


One of the things I didn't like about PF1 was that trying things outside of your spec was often a fool's endeavor. The chance of succeeding was so poor that it's practically a waste of an action or attempt. You're better off sticking to the things you're good at and never venturing outside of that.

Will this be fixed in PF2?

Will I be able to try a combat maneuver or a skill I'm not trained in and still have a good enough chance if it working? Will I be able to step outside my boundaries and try things I'm not specced for?


Yes, they said that you wll have realistic chance to succeed even at things you are not extremely focused on. Not as much of a chance as a specialist, of course, but it will at least not be a total waste of time.


Of course, one person's idea of "reasonable" and another's may vary.


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I believe this is the entire point of them trying to constrict the numbers. It allows them to make DCs for things that don't = auto success for one person and auto fail for another. Also has the byproduct of not having your investments deteriorate through poor scaling.

E.G in PF1 if I put skill points into a skill every level for 5 levels, by the time you hit level 15 those skill points are effectively wasted. In PF2, it seems, if you've bothered to get as far as, say, Expert with a skill you will stay that good.


Pretty sure that was their design goal for the proficiency system.


They've definitely compressed the numerical variation - the difference between legendary and untrained is +5, which is ~50% of the difference between level 1 characters in PF1 who are very specialized vs totally untalented.

What remains to be seen is how many skill-based abilities they lock up with skill feats. Will you need a skill feat to use Nature to calm down an animal? Will you need a skill feat to use Ride to do a fast mount? Will you need a skill feat to use Fly to hover? These are the sorts of things we don't know yet.

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Malk_Content wrote:
E.G in PF1 if I put skill points into a skill every level for 5 levels, by the time you hit level 15 those skill points are effectively wasted. In PF2, it seems, if you've bothered to get as far as, say, Expert with a skill you will stay that good.

PF1e skill points are only wasted if your GM makes everything harder as you go up levels. Your 5 ranks still let you do everything you could do at level 5. Especially if you are facing static DCs, those 5 points might be enough to last you until level 20. I get sporadic use out of completely untrained skills in PF1e even in levels in the high teens. I very often stop putting ranks in skills at a +10 or so in order to spread out. When I GM, sometimes the DCs at level 15 are still a 10 or 15. I want my PCs to know they've gotten better at things - if all the DCs go up just because they're high level it creates a treadmill.


Skill feats aside, I think it would be awesome to allow very different character concepts within every class, depending on the secondary ability chosen.

This could allow us to build a fighter, for example, who is a leader (cha), a tactician (int), a guerilla fighter (dex) with strength as the primary ability score, of course. Some class feats would reflect those ability scores in some way, granting interesting, helpful options to those roles.


In PF 1 Static DC are not a problem. Climbing that DC 10 tree is easy. Opposed DC are the problem. You are not going to lie to anybody that matters at lvl 15 with your +10 bluff skill that you punt 7 ranks into it.

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gustavo iglesias wrote:

In PF 1 Static DC are not a problem. Climbing that DC 10 tree is easy. Opposed DC are the problem. You are not going to lie to anybody that matters AR lvl 15 with your +10 bluff skill that you punt 7 ranks into it.

That's fair. I generally max skills with common opposed checks, and stop static skills after I can do most tasks taking 10.

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RumpinRufus wrote:

They've definitely compressed the numerical variation - the difference between legendary and untrained is +5, which is ~50% of the difference between level 1 characters in PF1 who are very specialized vs totally untalented.

What remains to be seen is how many skill-based abilities they lock up with skill feats. Will you need a skill feat to use Nature to calm down an animal? Will you need a skill feat to use Ride to do a fast mount? Will you need a skill feat to use Fly to hover? These are the sorts of things we don't know yet.

Remember that proficiency levels are not the only factors on your bonus. Specialized characters will likely have item bonuses and whatever else applies. The numbers are still small, though.

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