Just Got Pathfinder And I'm Pissed


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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I have sat down going on for probably 3 hours of my time trying to understand this core rulebook and make a damn character. This book has poor structure, I am CONSTANTLY going back to pages to remember a rule or to find a stat. I am over 100 (over 500 total) pages in and still do not know my CMB, CMD, Touch, Flatfooted, BAB, Spell Resistance, Melee, and Ranged. I understand the movement as it reads differently in different parts of the book. I've yet to get to combat. I do not understand what feats I can or cannot have or remember what the hell they do. I do not know my hitpoints, or what my animal companions hitpoints are.

Paizo listen. Your book may read well to veterans of 3.5, but my friends and I never played the thing! What you should do, if you haven't, is MAKE A GUIDE (that isn't this horrid core rulebook) that shows step by step how to make a character and what stats to fill and when. It is nonsense telling me how a skill works at level 3 on my druid when I don't even know what to do at level 1! Then placing a table in the middle of the text and having to read what s%~@ means AFTER you've passed the table. Come on! I still don't have a full character sheet made, and I still don't know how to play your game. I'm totally turned off at this point and 4e sounds more appealing.

My fear with all of this gibberish text is that my friends and I are constantly going to have to revert back to this book to do things like open a door.


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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
What you should do, if you haven't, is MAKE A GUIDE (that isn't this horrid core rulebook) that shows step by step how to make a character and what stats to fill and when. It is nonsense telling me how a skill works at level 3 on my druid when I don't even know what to do at level 1!

You might want to grab the Beginner Box PDFs. One of the things in the BB is a 64 page Hero's Handbook, that does precisely what you ask.

It was written for people new to Pathfinder and gets you started very quickly. As soon as you're comfortable with that limited ruleset, you can easily move to regular Pathfinder

Beginner Box PDF


I'll look into that for sure. This core rulebook is silly. For instance something that is not given explanation at all so far is how my Druid's hit die is D8, but my weapon's damage is 1D8. Does this mean that my hit die is what I attack with? Then my sword is what I follow up with? Don't know, never says. Going to have a gander at the beginner book I guess.

Grand Lodge

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Paizo really does need a guide. The Core absolutely has the problem of not being user-friendly to someone with no background in the system at all.

I assume the Beginner Box does precisely what you're looking for -- that's why they made it. And it has very good reviews from novices to the game. (I never had the need for it at all, coming to it from a decade of advanced 3E gaming.)

But I couldn't imagine someone picking up the Core without d20-System knowledge & experience trying to learn it for the first time without help. I believe every word of your OP.

All I can say is that, if you do decide to start with the Beginner Box and play through that a while until you get fluent with the basics, well, the game system is spectacular. You and your players have a seemingly unending plethora of design options and Class/Race choices. You can build what you want and your group can play what and how they want. Your imagination will not likely outdistance the depth of the game!

Welcome to the big time.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

...

You know, I had some truly unhelpful, elitist condescending jerk stuff to say, but honestly?

Folks, this hurdle right here, that most of us old grognards could manage in our sleep?

This is why we're getting a second edition.

Now, with that said...

Here's a helpful link: Paizo's SRD glossary

Cheaper than the beginner box! Clear layout! Links to hop back and forth on!


I recommend writing up a character sheet, that's how I've always learned a new edition (or a different game system). A lot of the less intuitive parts of the game make more sense when you write it all down on a character sheet.

The other thing I often try to do is play my first game or 2 with someone who already knows the rules. This isn't always possible but it definitely makes life easier. If this isn't possible for you, this forum can be a wealth of knowledge, so absolutely come back and ask any questions you want. That's what we're here for (rules questions in the rules forum obviously, but I found the Advice forum amazing when I was new to this game).

Lastly, remember that you don't have to learn every rule to play. Once you learn the basics you can jump in and play an adventure. These games are more about giving you a rules-base to play an interactive story than anything else. Most of the combat statistics are about giving you a certain percent chance of succeeding at whatever you're doing (because without risk there is no tension). It doesn't matter that you're getting everything perfect as long as you have that base.

Grand Lodge

In the meantime, stay here and some of us will try to help. Ask some questions.
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Your Druid will add 1d8 HP to his total every level. And everyone gets max HP at 1st Level.

The Hit Dice a Class gets is based on his BAB -- the Classes with the best BAB, +1 every level, get 1d10 HP when they level-up (with 1 exception). The Classes that get the second-best BAB get 1d8 HP every level. The Classes with the weakest BAB get 1d6 HP every level.

....

When you hit with your weapon the damage is based on the weapon. Some weapons (such as the one your Druid wields) does 1d8 damage. Other weapons could do 1d4 damage or 1d12 damage or 2d6 damage, etc, etc.

It's why Combat is scary at 1st Level. Your 1st Level Druid has 8 HP, so from one hit from certain weapons, he can go unconscious! Now, by the time your Druid is 4th Level -- with 4d8 HP -- he's more durable.

....

Obviously there are many more complications, but hopefully this is a start.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder does have a guide. Check out the Strategy Guide. Despite being horably mis-named, it is pretty much exactly what you are asking for.
it gives step-by-step instructions on character creation and advice on skill / feat choices. It also walks you through all the rest of the rules you need.
The beginner's Box is awesome, but it uses a watered down version of the rules. The Strat Guide uses the core rules.
It only uses the core rules, however, so there is still more to learn, but it gives you a pretty good base knowledge.

Grand Lodge

some of the things you asked.
CMB is Combat Maneuver Bonus. It is your BAB + Your Strength + Size bonus. In your druid's case that will just be your strength bonus, unless you are playing a Halfling or gnome, (you get +1 for being small)
CMD is Combat Maneuver Defense. it is 10+Strength bonus + dex bonus + size bonus + {extras}. the extras come from feats or class abilities, they will tell you if you get them.
Touch is your AC without armor. Touch is used for attacks that affect you if they touch any part of you, including your armor.
Flatfooted is your AC without your dexterity bonus. It means you don't have time to react the attack and cant dodge / move out of the way.
BAB is Base Attack Bonus. it's the number added to all your attack roles. At first level your druid will have +0.
Spell Resistance, you don't have any, and wont for a long time.
Melee, is your BAB + your strength bonus. it's what you use to hit some one with a sword / mace/ big stick.
Ranged is your BAB + your Dex bonus. you use it to hit some one not next to you with an arrow / dagger/ big rock.

hope that helps nome


I appreciate these responses. I looked at the beginner book but it literally just fills things in for you, and doesn't show you how to. So that already is a big no help. By the hit points total I see DR what does that mean?

I still don't get AC, Touch and Flat Footed. I have padded armor that give's me plus 1 and my dex gives me plus 1. Does that mean my AC is 12, my Touch is 11, and my flat footed is 11? What makes the touch and flat footed different from just AC?!?!

EDIT: Also how in the hell are you supposed to keep track of spells 9 days out... What?!

Liberty's Edge

The index in the back should list all (or most) of the relevant pages about any term you're wondering about, so if you don't find what you need, go to the back and try reading all the listings. And don't overlook the Common Terms section of pages 11-13 in the getting started chapter. A number of really important stats and terms for the game are explained there, including hit dice, and hit points.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

AC is your armor class. If you look at your character sheet, you can see all the different elements that are added together in calculating your character's armor class.

Sometimes characters are wearing armor, and sometimes they are not, but they always have an armor class, always calculated that same way.

If you are wearing armor, one of the terms of the equation is how much protection that armor adds to your AC. In your case, padded armor adds +1 to your armor class.

Another term in the equation is how big your DEX bonus is. That's a value that's usually in the 0 to 4 range.

Your "touch" AC is your armor class calculation without including the value worn armor would add.

Your "flat-footed" AC is your armor class calculation without including the value your dexterity bonus adds

In different combat situations you may be caught flat-footed. That's when you use the 'flat-footed AC' value.

In other combat situations, the attack is a "touch attack" and thus bypasses your worn armor. In that case you use the 'touch AC' value


What does the DR by health mean? Also how would the melee or ranged be used? I am a gnome, so I get a plus 1 to my size mod. My melee and ranged are both 1. Do I use that with my 20 on an attack roll, or is that an added bonus to my damage roll?


DR is Damage Reduction. You reduce physical attack damage by the amount of Damage Reduction you have. If there is a special way to bypass this reduction, then it will be noted in the ability that grants it. For example, many Fey have DR/Cold Iron, meaning that attacks made with weapons made of Cold Iron are not reduced.

Touch AC is how hard it is to touch you. This mostly just factors in Dodge bonuses to AC, and not armor-based increases, and is most commonly targetted by spells.

Flat-Footed AC is for when you are unprepared for an attack, such as at the start of combat, before you have had the chance to go, or if you have been feinted. Armor bonuses are factored in, but not dodge bonuses.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by spell tracking though.

Attacks are made with several modifiers. The main one is BAB, or Base Attack Bonus, which is dependent on your class and level. You also add your size modifier to this, as well as either your Strength or your Dexterity bonus. Strength is used for melee attacks, while Dexterity is used for Ranged and some melee attacks if you have the Weapon Finesse feat.

Bonuses to your Attack is often separate from bonuses to Damage. Size bonuses only apply to your Attack, and not your damage. Your damage will depend somewhat on size though, as the damage dice of your weapons will go up or down as you go up or down in size.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Angry Adventurer wrote:
What does the DR by health mean? Also how would the melee or ranged be used? I am a gnome, so I get a plus 1 to my size mod. My melee and ranged are both 1. Do I use that with my 20 on an attack roll, or is that an added bonus to my damage roll?

DR means 'damage reduction' I'd have to see the rule you're quoting to know what 'by health' is referring to.

Melee And Ranged

Weapons are either Melee (close combat) or Ranged (further away combat).

Melee weapons are things you use on opponents that are next to you, like swords and daggers and clubs.

Ranged weapons are things you throw or shoot, like slings or daggers (if you throw them at someone) or arrows (if you use a bow or crossbow to fire them at someone).

Your "attack bonus" is, again, a calculation that includes your weapon bonus and your strength bonus and other bonuses.

To figure out your total attack bonus, you add up things that are 'attack bonuses'. Those might include your size, how good the weapon is (masterwork weapons add a bonus to your attack), how strong or how dexterous you are, and other things. These are added to your 1d20 attack roll.

Every weapon has 'damage dice'. It's listed in the weapon description.

Assuming you're using a weapon with a 1d6 damage die, then you add your damage bonuses after you roll the 1d6. Damage bonuses might include your strength bonus, or special properties of the weapon.


LeMoineNoir wrote:

DR is Damage Reduction. You reduce physical attack damage by the amount of Damage Reduction you have. If there is a special way to bypass this reduction, then it will be noted in the ability that grants it. For example, many Fey have DR/Cold Iron, meaning that attacks made with weapons made of Cold Iron are not reduced.

Touch AC is how hard it is to touch you. This mostly just factors in Dodge bonuses to AC, and not armor-based increases, and is most commonly targetted by spells.

Flat-Footed AC is for when you are unprepared for an attack, such as at the start of combat, before you have had the chance to go, or if you have been feinted. Armor bonuses are factored in, but not dodge bonuses.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by spell tracking though.

Attacks are made with several modifiers. The main one is BAB, or Base Attack Bonus, which is dependent on your class and level. You also add your size modifier to this, as well as either your Strength or your Dexterity bonus. Strength is used for melee attacks, while Dexterity is used for Ranged and some melee attacks if you have the Weapon Finesse feat.

So my Gnome can have a BAB of 2 at level 1? Using my plus 1 dex and plus 1 size? Spells have days and it's not explained, I don't understand the spells at all. I don't see the point of writing anything in the melee and ranged slots if those aren't used for anything. Take those off the character sheet.


Spells are generally per-day abilities. The exact rules vary by class, but you generally have a certain number of spells that you know, and then a certain number you can cast each day. Your ability to regain all your used "slots" for spells depends on your class - it's usually something like studying a spellbook for awhile, praying to a deity, or just naturally recharging at a specific time. In most cases, you can only regain your spent spells once per day - this is for game balance reasons, since higher-level spells are often quite powerful.

BAB is determined by your class(es). It's never more than 1 per level. (It can also be 3/4ths or 1/2 your level - characters with lower BAB tend to have more magic and special abilities to compensate.) However, your Attack Bonus - what you add to the dice roll to determine if you hit or not - can be well above your BAB. (This includes things like ability score modifiers, bonuses from weapons, and so on. There are a lot of things that can make it easier to hit your enemies. ^^)

It may help to play/run your first game with pre-generated characters. This can help you understand how each part of the character sheet is used - and once you've seen them in-play, it's usually easier to make an actual character. ^^


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Some terminology:

BAB is a fixed number, Base Attack Bonus. At level 1 the most you can have is +1. Whether it is 0 or 1 depends on what class you are.

However, you might have an 'attack bonus' on a particular weapon at level one that makes your total attack bonus +2 or even higher. You would also add your size modifier or modifiers you get from feats. So your total attack bonus for a particular weapon would include your BAB, and your STR or DEX bonus, and your size bonus, and any weapon abilities, and any relevant feats.

Your total attack bonus may vary from weapon to weapon. It makes a difference whether you're calculating for a melee attack or a ranged attack. Some weapons can be used either way, and have different attack bonuses depending on whether you use them to slash at an adjacent opponent or throw them at a further away opponent.


Angry Adventurer wrote:
So my Gnome can have a BAB of 2 at level 1? Using my plus 1 dex and plus 1 size? Spells have days and it's not explained, I don't understand the spells at all. I don't see the point of writing anything in the melee and ranged slots if those aren't used for anything. Take those off the character sheet.

BAB is a separate modifier added to your Attack, that is dependent on class and level. At most, BAB is equal to your level, though many classes have a slower BAB progression.

So you would add BAB, Dexterity, Size, and other modifiers together to determine your Attack. The Melee and Ranged slots are for your total bonus, when everything is added together.

You have a set number of uses of spells, but spells per day is referring to how many uses you have within a single day. Spells have levels, which go up to nine.

Grand Lodge

As a gnome druid, your BAB is 0. Lets say you have a strength score of 12 and a dexterity score of 14. your BONUSES for those would be +1 STR and +2 DEX.
Your Meele attack bonus would be your BAB+ your STR + your size, so
0+1+1= +2 to hit with a club.
Your Ranged attack bonus would be BAB + DEX + Size, so
0+2+1 = +3 to hit with a bow.

Grand Lodge

so, spells.
As a 1st level druid, you can "prepare" 3 0-levels and 1 1st-level spells per day. this means, that your character "must spend 1 hour each day in a trance-like meditation on the mysteries of nature". After this hour, he can choose his spells (3 0-level, 1 1st-level) from the entire list of druid spells of those levels. The next day, he can do it again, and pick again from those same lists. He does not need to choose the same spells each day.
During that day he can cast each of the 1st level (and later higher) spells one time. The 0 levels are different, they can be cast as many times a day as you want. Also as a druid, you can give up your 1st level spell for the day to cast a special spell "Summon Natures Ally".

Clerics handle spells using the same mechanic as Druids. Wizards, Bards, and Sorcerers use different mechanics for selecting and casting spells.


Glewistee wrote:

some of the things you asked.

CMB is Combat Maneuver Bonus. It is your BAB + Your Strength + Size bonus. In your druid's case that will just be your strength bonus, unless you are playing a Halfling or gnome, (you get +1 for being small)

Just want to correct this.

If you're a small character (halfling/gnome/etc) you get a +1 size bonus to Armour Class (because you're small and therefore harder to hit) and you get a +1 size bonus to hit enemies (because they're bigger than you, which makes them easier for you to hit).

If you're a small character (halfling/gnome/etc) you take a -1 size penalty to Combat Maneuvers Bonus (CMB) (because you're smaller, so easier to grapple/bull-rush/etc) and you take a -1 size penalty to your Combat Maneuver Defense (CMD) (because you're small so it's harder for you to grapple/bull-rush/etc your enemies).

This isn't perfectly analogous to real life, but it does simplify things and give a certain amount of balance to the size differences.

It will be harder for enemies to hit you with a sword, but easier for them to shove you out of the way.

It will be easier for you to hit your enemies with a sword, but harder for you to shove them out of the way.


I would like to also point that spells per day can be increased by higher casting attribute(wisdom in the case of a druid.)

One other note that I saw earlier in the thread is that your longsword doesn't actually do 1d8 damage. Medium sized(so human sized) longsword does that damage. For a small(gnone) sized the damage is 1d6. Well that is purely the weapons base damage, you get your strenght modifier as well.(or STR modifier x1.5 rounded down if you two hand it.) However I should also point out that as a druid you do no actually get profiency in a long sword.(you could spend a feat to gain it)

PS. It would really make it easier to help you if you gave us your attributes.

PSS. Feel free to PM if questions come at a later date.


Preach it, Angry; preach it to the rafters. This game has grown way beyond physical books (and the ones we have were never that good in the first place).

It needs to become an engine.


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Consider using something like Hero Lab. It should be able to calculate things like your CMB for you.


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I do believe there is a step by step character creation process in the frontish section of the core book.
I do also know that the core book is an unwieldy tome (both in sheer weight and in actually finding any information you want.)

I will suggest that if you would like, I can give you my number for whatsapp, my skype details, my email, or my discord info. Then you can rapid fire ask questions and I can try and explain why some things are the way they are.

We all love the game here and all would love to help turn your frustration into a love for the game as well.


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Matthew Downie wrote:
Consider using something like Hero Lab. It should be able to calculate things like your CMB for you.

Don't do this! At east not until you are able to calculate the things yourself.

Liberty's Edge

thorin001 wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Consider using something like Hero Lab. It should be able to calculate things like your CMB for you.
Don't do this! At east not until you are able to calculate the things yourself.

Agreed!


thorin001 wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Consider using something like Hero Lab. It should be able to calculate things like your CMB for you.
Don't do this! At least not until you are able to calculate the things yourself.

The problem is, how is a new player supposed to know if they're calculating these things correctly? Even in this thread, we've had wrong information posted (like getting +1 to CMB for being small). HeroLab can give you the 'correct' answer and then you can look at how the numbers are generated.

In every game I've played, there was at least one veteran who could explain things and check the work of the newbies. I've never had to deal with the situation of an entire group of novices...


For what it's worth, I started with Hero Lab myself and basically learned the system by repeatedly creating characters (because I didn't have a group to teach me). It's quite viable if you care to make the investment.


One of my players uses PCGen to build his character and level up. It produces some decent PDFs, at least - and is completely free, opposed to Hero Lab. There are also many character sheets that do things automatically - I like this one for being close to Paizo's official one. Depending on browser, you might have to download it first.

@Angry Adventurer: Hats off for trying to dig your way through such a complex system on your own. The Core Rulebook has a lot of material, but as a player you only need a limited amount of it. For example a human fighter is relatively straightforward - maybe try to build this one first.

Sovereign Court

From what I remember the d20 site
Link( http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/character-creation/ )
has a good tutorial on character creation


Hey Angry, I have sent you a PM.


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thorin001 wrote:
Matthew Downie wrote:
Consider using something like Hero Lab. It should be able to calculate things like your CMB for you.
Don't do this! At east not until you are able to calculate the things yourself.

I'm going to disagree with this.

I'm a veteran player currently playing with 5 novice players. Of the novices, 3 are using Hero-Lab/PC-Gen/etc and 2 are not. I can tell you right now that the 3 who do use the apps have a much better grasp of the rules than the 2 who don't.

Having something to help you through the early stages can make things more manageable, and will mean you're less likely to rage-quit. For a game to be fun it must be challenging but achievable, the problem is that "challenging but achievable" will look different to everyone. As a new player who's NOT playing with a veteran I'd say having an app to help you with rules-disputes would be a good-send.

SheepishEidolon wrote:
The Core Rulebook has a lot of material, but as a player you only need a limited amount of it. For example a human fighter is relatively straightforward - maybe try to build this one first.

I'm going to (slightly) disagree with this too. The Fighter is a seemingly straight-forward class that is difficult to build. It has very simple mechanics, but the list of bonus feats is HUGE. This kind of thing can be difficult for new players who won't understand how feats interact with each other. On top of this it doesn't really teach you much about the game except for feats and BAB.

I recommend the Paladin, it has slow but steady progression of new abilities, so it won't be too hard to begin with, but every level will teach you something new about the game. It teaches you resource management and introduces a lot of different game-play mechanics into your game.

The Paladin also has some built in role-play mechanics which can help get people thinking about their character as a person. In order to help your character NOT be a stick-in-the-mud (for the sake of the rest of the party) I recommend worshipping either SARENRAE or APSU (The pages I linked you to have specific codes for Paladins worshipping those 2 gods).

Other classes that I recommend from the Core Rulebook are Barbarian, Monk, Ranger and Sorcerer. You can of course try all of them, but I feel like those have a good amount of flavour and introduce mechanics at a manageable rate.

I would definitely leave full prepared casters (Cleric/Druid/Wizard) until after you've played a few games. The nature of prepared casting often leaves new players a bit overwhelmed, and can slow games down if you have trouble deciding which spells to prepare.


Paladin or Barbarian are probably the best classes for someone with problems understanding the system.

Print your self a character sheet, it shows you what to add to what.
If you fill it in from top to bottom it should work well.
Look up the boni you get from abillities, race, class and equipment while doing so.


If you're in a relatively active area as far as gaming is concerned, I suggest looking for your local chapter of Pathfinder Society. If they're at all worth associating with, they will be happy to help you wrap your head around the basics.


I3igAl wrote:

Paladin or Barbarian are probably the best classes for someone with problems understanding the system.

Print your self a character sheet, it shows you what to add to what.
If you fill it in from top to bottom it should work well.
Look up the boni you get from abillities, race, class and equipment while doing so.

I would also like to add the Ranger as it can get you from using weapons and leaning combat until you reach 4th lvl and then you get spells and and perhaps an animal companion. I find it a great way to introduce different ways of playing in stages.


I don't think anyone else realized this, so I'll point this out.

Angry Adventurer[/quote wrote:
By the hit points total I see DR what does that mean?

The OP's referring to a character sheet.

Angry Adventurer wrote:
Also how in the hell are you supposed to keep track of spells 9 days out... What?!

Still referring to a character sheet. @ Angry Adventurer: You don't keep track of your spells multiple days out. There are multiple spell "levels", though you only start with first level spells. They scale up to nine. The character sheet has a place to write down spells of every level, even though many classes can't cast and most that never learn ninth level spells. You'll find that the character sheets in the core book are pretty wonky; they have places to write things you don't need and no place to write some of the things you do need. Myself, I don't use them, I use lined paper. But I don't know if advocating that choice is good advice. Up to you.

Druid is a pretty complicated class, the most so in the Core book. (Though less so than it was in 3.5) I'd advise starting with a paladin or ranger; you'll have a few levels under your belt before you have to worry about spells or animal companions, but you'll still learn how to use them in your first game.


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Flagged the above post as abusive. Angry Adventurer, I'd be willing to sit down with your group on Discord (or Mumble or Teamspeak) and walk you through this if you'd like. And answer any questions you have as we go.


There's a site called Myth-Weavers. It will fill in AC for you based on the values of bonuses you put in. By bonuses, I mean Dex, Size, Armor, Shield, etc. The Pathfinder sheets they have are pretty easy to understand even if you are a first time player.

Just remember - the same type of bonuses do not stack. If you have 2 Shields, only the one with the higher bonus will increase your AC. The only exception to this is Dodge.

And it's not just bonuses to AC, but bonuses to attack, damage, and skills as well. There are some exceptions, they will be stated in the option.


Eh, Myth Weavers sheets are nice, but the sheet isn't very smart, and can create issues if you don't know what you're doing to back the sheet up. The HeroLab demo may be the better idea.


I appreciate the response. I THINK I have filled out my gnome druid to his level 1 entirety. I feel like it takes forever to make a character because I keep flipping between pages to understand s&&!. I am now making an elf cavalier for my fiance, only problem is I have no idea how the class progresses because the advanced class guide only has like two pages with no tables for it.

Does leveling up for everyone work the same way? I assume each class gets unique skills. When I level up how many feats or skills do I get?


Everyone gets a feat at every odd-numbered level. Some classes will grant bonus feats above that, but that will be noted. For example, a Fighter gets a bonus Combat Feat every even-numbered level.

Your skill ranks will depend primarily on your class and your Intelligence modifier. Druids and Cavaliers get a base 4 Skill Ranks per level, before factoring in their Intelligence modifier.


I assume you are using beginner box or something similar. Since the actual books have tables and the full classes.

And yes leveling is the same for everyone regardless of class.(naturally outside of class features.)
The general things that everyone gets.
Feats: You get 1 at level 1(humans get an extra from race) and then at 3rd and every two levels from there on.(so 5th, 7th and so on.)
Skills: Your class tells you how many ranks you get at each level. For example with cavalier it is 4+ Intelligence modifier. You can't have more ranks in a skill than your character level, outside of that you can distribute them however your want, the class skills just get a +3 bonus to them once you you put 1 rank into them but that is a one time deal.(so you don't get it again when you put the second rank into it.)
Attribute increases: at level 4 and every 4th level after it you get to increase one of your attributes by 1. (So for example you could increase your DEX from 14 to 15 at level 4 and INT from 13 to 14 at level 8, and at 12 again increase your DEX to 16.)


I am using the full books....... I am using the advanced class guide for cavalier there is only two pages for it, no table.


Cavalier chart is in the Advanced Player's Guide. The Advanced Class Guide only has charts for the Hybrid classes; classes made to emulate a mix of two Base or Core classes.


Okay so what do I use, the class guide or players guide for classes?


I am in a reapermini chat that is unpopulated if anyone wants to join and help me make sense of this stuff. I am currently the only painter in here.

https://hangouts.google.com/call/01uvpATfjyv_BtIQtxSxAAEE


Depends on what class you want to play.

In general, content for classes is printed in two ways. The first is the main class writeup - for the Cavalier, that's in the Advanced Player's Guide, so that would be your main book for playing them. Other books add new content for classes, such as class options (like Cavalier Orders) or archetypes (which allow you to lose some of your class' abilities in order to gain different ones).

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