Cult of Mahathallah


Hell's Rebels


So I have been scanning through parts of this adventure path in very early stages of preparation

My main focus at the moment is a general vibe of the early books and looking out for NPCs that could benefit from earlier introduction (for another post)

One thing that I couldn't work out from Book 2 was about the cult (and apologies if this is in there because I was only scanning)

- What are they trying to achieve?
- Does the choice of Mahathallah make sense?
- Why specifically are the cultists Changelings (the cult doesn't seem based on hags)?

Was it something to do with corrupting the Soul Anchor? That sticks in the mind somewhere

Would it make any sense to change who the focus it? I am considering trying to link to a player's backstory (assuming they survive that far).
I have a player who is a retired assassin who is reforming. So I think either expanding the role of Norgorber or using Nauticula could fit as a replacement (unless the existing choice is important and I have missed it)

Thanks for any help


Ok so my second question is indeed linked to the Soul Anchor as the worship corrupts a Soul Anchor. But my first and third are still relevant

Also is it only followers of this deity that corrupt Soul Anchors?


I ended up using Varl Wex as an early cultist of Mahathallah, who did the kidnapping and whose murders are a distraction while the clock ticks down on the sacrifice. Meanwhile, I borrowed stuff from the boards and used Zella Zidlii as the source of the magic kukri and reskinned her as another cultist. She then does Harrow readings that aid the dottari in locating the bodies, allowing them to frame the Silver Ravens for the murder if they get there first. She thinks this is win-win-win: either the Silver Ravens are discredited or leaders imprisoned, find Wex and lose the fight, or beat Wex and get a weapon that will slowly corrupt them.

Of course, if the PCs figure it out, she's in serious trouble if they get the drop on her when she's alone and this is THE adventure path for that kind of thing happening. Her class setup is not optimized for combat. And if they don't find her, then I get invested PCs against the leader of the dottari and Zella, giving meaning to their book four curb stomps.

I also have a whole thing where Mahathallah gets something out of the Thrune use of her soul anchor, which is why a cultist is in his administration.


Lanathar wrote:

One thing that I couldn't work out from Book 2 was about the cult (and apologies if this is in there because I was only scanning)

- What are they trying to achieve?
- Does the choice of Mahathallah make sense?
- Why specifically are the cultists Changelings (the cult doesn't seem based on hags)?

Was it something to do with corrupting the Soul Anchor? That sticks in the mind somewhere

Would it make any sense to change who the focus it? I am considering trying to link to a player's backstory (assuming they survive that far).

Spoiler:

It's very ambiguous what Luculla's objectives are - other than to be a gotcha reveal for the pc's and sacrificing some innocent twins.

No, as presented, the choice of Mahathallah doesn't make any sense at all. Thrune and other minions have just desecrated the Soul Anchor, perverting it to serve as Barzillai's path to godhood and killed a good number of important and powerful Mahathallah servants. And the only cult of Mahathallah in town appears utterly oblivious and uninterested.

Changelings make some sense as there is a theme of hags in the AP though they don't appear until Book 5 and 6.

I think an alternate structure would certainly fit - you wouldn't lose anything storywise if the Lucky Bones was occupied by another cult or even an alternate thieve's guild, etc.

For my part, I'm sticking with the cult of Mahathallah but with significant changes. No, the leader of said cult is not baking cookies in Old Kintargo. She's been called here by Mahathallah in response to the violation of the Soul Anchor. The Dowager of Illusions has lost contact with the Soul Anchor - she can't see what's happening there (due to the presence of the nemesis devil Anagondun) and She wants to know what's happening - She suspects some duplicity on the part of Asmodeus or Mephistopheles. She's also concerned the psychopomps (such as Azrana from Continuing the Campaign in Book 6) have found it (or will.)

Luculla and her cult will be trying to find out what Barzillai is really up to and will be kidnapping, killing, etc. various Asmodean and Thrune minions - to little avail. While doing so, some of their crimes will be attributed to the Silver Ravens (causing an increase in their Notoriety.) The pc's will eventually need to hunt them down to stop it. They will have encounters with the changeling cultists and Maglap before finding them in the Lucky Bones, and so on. They may encounter Luculla herself somewhere in the city as well but I haven't come with a good answer there. My plan is to foreshadow the Soul Anchor throughout the campaign.


That's a great idea, Latrecis!

Spoiler:
I've already introduced Luculla as being an unassuming baker,
but changing what she's doing in the background definitely works! Her and the cult are keeping a low profile and attacking Thrunites and, as you said, the Ravens will get blamed for some of it. The cult can be an antagonist of the Ravens based on them drawing the ire of the government down on the people and indirectly having the government blame the Ravens for some things. The ravens will likely want to stop what the cult is doing even though they're both working against Thrune.
Now to figure out how and when to have people in the government start to disappear...


Thanks for the views and notes on what everyone has done

As I alluded to above the pathfinder wiki says worship of this entity is what can cause a corruption of a soul anchor. What is not clear is why this is and if it is the only evil worship that causes this. It might just be in the wiki because of this AP (and probably is)

As an alternative I read that night hags try and steal from the river of souls. So mestama worship could also work and fit with the changelings

My further initial impressions from an overview read only is that it seems odd that this is not the climax of the lucky bones (and thus the book). It seems like a bit of a flat ending to go from a gotcha cult leader reveal to being bogged down in underwater combat. How have others done this?


It's a dungeon crawl in an AP with very few of them. It's a needed respite for tables with tactical players, and a fun chance to fully use your combat abilities, as opposed to a lot a of missions where you only use your top line abilities. The appeal, as well, is that you get a major, secluded base that can fit your needs for when you start having hundreds of supporters.


My hope for the Lucky Bones is that I can make it obvious enough that each of the different areas are difficult enough to get through that the players don't feel like they have to get through all of it right away and can take their time, maybe even do things in between the different portions.
But we'll see. That's still a month or two away.

As for the Soul Anchor, I thought it was that worshipers of Mahathallah (or Mahathallah herself) are the ones that create the Soul Anchor and that it's a corruption of the River of Souls. (But I may be misremembering).


The kidnapped twins are going to be children of a Hellknight!
That'll get some attention! And Octavio will care! And if the Ravens don't do something about it quickly enough it'll get pinned on them by the cult, Tayacet will discover what happened but believe it was the Ravens!

Spoiler:
So far my plan is to use her as written... she'll start off pro-government and slowly (hopefully) change sides.


Warped Savant wrote:

The kidnapped twins are going to be children of a Hellknight!

That'll get some attention! And Octavio will care! And if the Ravens don't do something about it quickly enough it'll get pinned on them by the cult, Tayacet will discover what happened but believe it was the Ravens!
** spoiler omitted **

Which Order of Hellknights?


Order of the Rack.
The twins had recently come to town as Barzillai brought the Order of the Rack with him. They were out exploring the city, didn't have friends with them (because they're new to town) and that's how they were grabbed so easily.


For the "Lucky Bones" I've had to take a slightly different route. The PCs have decided at level 2 to use it as a location to hide the escapees from the Saltworks. So I've needed to weaken them in relation to others, but I'll just empower Nox to compensate.
The main change I've made to the reason the Cult of Mahathallah is there. Luculla is masquerading as a Priestess of Pharasma to 'share information' above rituals involving the Soal Anchor with the goal of diverting Soul from Pharasma to Mahathallah on the Fateless Day. Meanwhile, she is using Maglap to place appropriate tombs in HOCUM’S FANTASMAGORIUM for Nox to find.
I have not yet decided if B-Thrune knows about it all, but that doesn't matter at the moment.


So I am now on the book relevant to this cult and fully intent to implement elements from above - notably the cult going after Thrune officials and the blame going on the Ravens

I may have to wait a while because as mentioned in the main Book 2 thread there is a lot of heat on my group now. But it should be a real driver for them to investigate if they spend a bunch of time calming things down and then it gets reversed...

The children of a hell knight is a good idea but still I would quite like a kidnapping from Wex's tenement due to the overlap of rumours

What I am interested in is the build of the cultists and Luculla. Has anyone changed them? How have the fights gone? Have I underestimated the spells?

To me it seems like her encounter is more for the "gotcha" (which is being removed) than for the challenge.

There is a remote chance that any changeling be it cultist or leader are going to hit my group. The scale down in attack bonuses from the beginning of the book is dramatic. Indeed the lone Bearded Devil is probably a bigger challenge (apart from being a lone villain so easily ganged up on by a level 5 group). This seems true of the Lucky Bones in general given the young Otugyh as well

As written they are unlikely to have any actual muscle. I can only think of the faceless stalkers that are established allies or some human martial cultists?

As a final aside has anyone had their group bump into any of the cultists on the street?


The bearded devil very nearly TPKed my group. It didn't stand in one spot to be killed, it teleported into the room with the cultists and the group kept failing the save required in order to stop the bleeding.

Luculla never exposed her true nature to the group and disappeared after she left the Lucky Bones.
I have a way in mind of bringing her back but I'm still deciding if it's worth it or if I should just leave it as a mystery.


I skipped past the telepathic communication in the devils section.
Have I misunderstood how telepathy works? Does it work two ways even if only one participant has it? And I assume only the creature with the ability can initiate it? So if the PCs find her first she can't call him to help?

The involvement of the bearded devil drastically revises my opinion of that potential combat.

I assume the sacrifice angle (and payment to the devil) can stay as they would probably sacrifice the thrune supporters / asmodeans just because it is what evil cultists are expected to do.

I have actually just had a thought that I could make Azvernathi Raul a victim (either one alive waiting to be killed or just his body)...

Obviously ideally I would like to make he victims children as it is a much easier hook. But clearing their name from being sullied is a strong driver. And if they get the credit for stopping the "cop killings" then it acts as a useful veil...

I suppose I need to establish that the dottari are not all evil (failed at this so far) and that despite what is going on the regular citizens find attacks on them abhorrent...

But then I could use the idea from above about Dottari/Hell Knight children and have the cultists do the usual "give us the information we need, come alone or the children die" thing...

(Sorry this became a bit of a stream of incoherent ideas)


This combat was very good, actually. There was actually a temporary stalemate for a while. Note: they went in with Rexus (Oracle 3/Aristocrat 1) and Morgar (Fighter 3), so either allow some npc help or cut down on what I describe here.

They buffed up, used clairvoyance on C2, cracked through the front door on the second try and were able to get to the door leading to the hallway fast, using silence and closing the door to keep the alarm from being raised.

C1:
I skipped the young otyughs. I often skip combats that don't advance central storylines and I never did much with the sewer stories.

C2: Guild Meeting Hall
If no attack on exterior gangs:
On alert, but also needing rest: 2 in armor lie in wait in bedrooms near door. Other two rest out of armor in random bedrooms, run out w/o armor, but w/ equipment round 2.

If attack on exterior gangs: add 2 cultists, barricaded door (STR 20). Hope that resting people will get to put on armor.

C3: Storage room
I had Maglap in the storeroom. Once it hears combat, it takes a round to rise and get sword, then stealth towards combat. He ended up waiting until the pit split the party.

The pit at C4 was tactically fun--make sure you know how they set the trap.

ELGADAZUM THE HATEFUL: was pretty awesome as well--the party kind of skipped his room, started the combat with the cultists and the priestess in the shrine, then had someone interacting with him and getting into combat.

I skipped the nonsense fake damsel in distress thing, because I also skipped the whole desert store thing. The fight was the first time they met her. I created more of a trail connecting Varl Wex to the cult of Mahathallah, so they defeated him first, then came here to the faith behind his murder spree.

So, basically, the party ended up fighting an intro battle with 4 cultists that was a curb stomp, then a running fight joining a Cr 5, CR 6, and CR 7 fight, along with a pit CR 6.

They used basically every spell and were really tested.


So I finally read the article on Mahathallah in Book 3 in close detail and the depiction of the cult and the cultists really don’t fit . Of course this is probably something that will just bug me and my players will not notice.

But:

The article suggests that most worshippers are nihilistic and end up living in filth and squalor regularly under the influence of drugs to try and enter lucid dreams and the like.

So with this in mind the otugyh’s are probably the most fitting things down there as written. Lemures would flock to such a place but they are too weak at this stage to really put in here. Advanced lemures are still probably too weak and don’t make a great deal of sense

The filth and squalor and drugs does not really gel well with beautiful changelings going out trying to charm victims (be they adults as potentially adapted or children as originally written).

Unless you lean heavily into the Blood Hag duality idea (and day ditch the blood hag changeling part about them not having the different coloured eyes). Although that said duality of hags / changelings surely applies to most (but arguably not the sea ones that they are currently started to be)

As has been mentioned it seems that the nature of Mahathallah and her worship was clearly flashed out after / parallel with book 2 being written and that the cult seems like it is a pretty general evil cult just worshipping an entity that fits the setting and comes into play later. But straddles an awkward middle ground where it seems to either need more Mahathallah themes or to drop association with her altogether in favour of someone else

I would prefer the former as I would like to try and foreshadow the soul anchor part of the story (even if i intend to make the DC to know about it nigh impossible at this stage as I assume it would be incredibly obscur planar or religious knowledge - as in I would tell them real details maybe on a natural 20)

Which raises the question of how much Luculla would know about the Anchor. Would she know where it was? What it does? I can’t tell them too much in case they try to go!


The ordinary Mahathallah believer is basically a sucker who thinks they are not a sucker, someone who's an outsider with an emotional need to feel superior as an insider.

Here's the notes I gave to the PCs:
Mahathallah: Dowager of Illusions, mortal existence is meaningless, you are a superior being for seeing through such deceptions and to craft your own, fictions lead to deeper truths, arrogance and vanity for surpassing the blind throngs, callousness towards the sheeple. Ranks are composed of outcasts, women under patriarchy (she’s called a whore queen due to the misogyny of devils), the powerless, hermits, addicts, and non-binary gendered. It's a weirdly lawful hipster religion--you've probably never heard of it.

I had her knowing there was a soul anchor and that the twins would fuel it, but she didn't need to know where it was.

I had Varl Wex's secret room have the following:
o Mysteries of Salaur: from the priestess Luculla Gens to her oldest initiate

It had the following within it:
o note: Mangvhune may have been manipulated by supernatural forces
o note: his spirit may have become anchored to Kintargo
o note: blade named Balgorrah
o note: owned by Mangvhune, given to him by a mysterious Varisian harrower
o clear he feels destined to
o Scrap of paper (rough map to Lucky Bones written in lemon juice)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, LO Special Edition, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I figured this would be a good fit in this thread.
I want a casual flirty NPC-->Romantic interest-->emotional attachment-->betrayal story arc between Luculla Gens and another player (who happens to wear an eye patch). Any suggested storyline changes to make this more feasible? If I need to drag out her involvement in the story I can.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Fair warning: whenever I say Mahathallah, my players immediately hum that Mahnamahna song from the Muppets.


IanJames wrote:

I figured this would be a good fit in this thread.

I want a casual flirty NPC-->Romantic interest-->emotional attachment-->betrayal story arc between Luculla Gens and another player (who happens to wear an eye patch). Any suggested storyline changes to make this more feasible? If I need to drag out her involvement in the story I can.

What part about what is currently written do you not find feasible? It is currently written to do exactly what you want

Unless you are going off the suggestions that it doesn’t fit the MO of the deity as written?


IanJames wrote:

I figured this would be a good fit in this thread.

I want a casual flirty NPC-->Romantic interest-->emotional attachment-->betrayal story arc between Luculla Gens and another player (who happens to wear an eye patch). Any suggested storyline changes to make this more feasible? If I need to drag out her involvement in the story I can.

Introduce her as early as you can and be willing to change her reactions to being found out. (I had Rexus bring the group to the Tooth & Nail right after the opening riot instead of where the book says he brings them and Luculla was introduced right then, during the first session of my game). Have her have a reason to be doing it (eg: fighting against Thrune's forces because he desecrated Mahathallah's domain) but not telling the group about it (eg: maybe they never tell her about the Silver Ravens so both her and the group are hiding a secret that makes sense to hide). Be open to her opening up to the PC she's involved with if the PC tells her about the Ravens; perhaps she thinks they can join forces to fight against Thrune then the cultists can become a team rather than an opponent (albeit a bit of an extremist team). Don't be set in the decision that she'll betray them because sometimes the story goes a different way. Specifically ask the player if they tell Luculla about the Ravens just in case the player assumes that the character would but doesn't mention it to you. Ask the player how they hide it, have them make Bluff and Sense Motive checks to see how well they hide it and to "see if they can tell if Luculla is doubting them/to gauge Luculla's reactions to the lies" (but really to see if they can tell she's lying to them about things she's getting up to).

And, most importantly, don't force the relationship. Maybe the player doesn't go for it but if they feel like they're being forced into it and then betrayed it becomes a railroad and that's not something you want them to think.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, LO Special Edition, Lost Omens, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Warped Savant wrote:

Introduce her as early as you can and be willing to change her reactions to being found out. (I had Rexus bring the group to the Tooth & Nail right after the opening riot instead of where the book says he brings them and Luculla was introduced right then, during the first session of my game). Have her have a reason to be doing it (eg: fighting against Thrune's forces because he desecrated Mahathallah's domain) but not telling the group about it (eg: maybe they never tell her about the Silver Ravens so both her and the group are hiding a secret that makes sense to hide). Be open to her opening up to the PC she's involved with if the PC tells her about the Ravens; perhaps she thinks they can join forces to fight against Thrune then the cultists can become a team rather than an opponent (albeit a bit of an extremist team). Don't be set in the decision that she'll betray them because sometimes the story goes a different way. Specifically ask the player if they tell Luculla about the Ravens just in case the player assumes that the character would but doesn't mention it to you. Ask the player how they hide it, have them make Bluff and Sense Motive checks to see how well they hide it and to "see if they can tell if Luculla is doubting them/to gauge Luculla's reactions to the lies" (but really to see if they can tell she's lying to them about things she's getting up to).

And, most importantly, don't force the relationship. Maybe the player doesn't go for it but if they feel like they're being forced into it and then betrayed it becomes a railroad and that's not something you want them to think.

All amazing points. I certainly won't force it, but it seems that this player is really great at playing into his (Urban Sleuth) character. Any and every time I throw in something mysterious or confusing, he bites. I think her circumstances would make his character drawn to her naturally. I WILL take your advice and introduce her sooner rather than later (party is still exploring the Fantasmagorium right now) so get extra time in with her character. This party seems to be willing to leave antithetical factions on the back-burner, an example being that they didn't kill Scarplume right away and decided to form an uneasy truce until the Ravens had the manpower to prepare for it. I certainly won't plan on an inevitable betrayal, but I'll do what I did with Blosodriette and the Sarini player and set up a possible (and likely) betrayal and let the actions of the player determine whether the NPC becomes attached enough to decide against it.Thanks for the replies!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Hell's Rebels / Cult of Mahathallah All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Hell's Rebels