Ultimate Wilderness: Outstanding Issues


Pathfinder Society

5/5 *****

OK, so Ultimate Wilderness has now been added to additional resources and various issues are dealt with there. However, a few issues have not been covered so this thread should hopefully condense them into one easy to find section.

1. Thundercaller Bard
The original Thundercaller gained the ability to use a scaling sound burst, call lightning and call lightning storm as bardic performances. These have been thought by many to benefit from the activation time reduction bards get at level 7 and 13. The new version makes these all standard actions. Can thundercallers retrain and if so can they also sell equipment or change feats taken to support this build?

2. The Protector Archetype
This archetype can no longer be used by Tumour Familiars in UW. Is this change retroactive for existing characters?

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I'd wait until the campaign clarifications go live.

1/5

andreww wrote:

OK, so Ultimate Wilderness has now been added to additional resources and various issues are dealt with there. However, a few issues have not been covered so this thread should hopefully condense them into one easy to find section.

1. Thundercaller Bard
The original Thundercaller gained the ability to use a scaling sound burst, call lightning and call lightning storm as bardic performances. These have been thought by many to benefit from the activation time reduction bards get at level 7 and 13. The new version makes these all standard actions. Can thundercallers retrain and if so can they also sell equipment or change feats taken to support this build?

2. The Protector Archetype
This archetype can no longer be used by Tumour Familiars in UW. Is this change retroactive for existing characters?

Campaign clarification already covers these.

for the original thunder caller source.

Quote:
Page 11—Add the following two sentences to the end of the thundercaller bard's thunder call ability. "A creature that succeeds at the saving throw is immune to the stunning effect but still takes sonic damage. Beginning this performance is always a standard action.” When a thundercaller uses her call lighting or call lightning storm abilities, calling down one bolt of lightning takes a standard action.

for original protector source

Quote:
Page 11—Tumor familiars cannot take the protector archetype.

5/5 *****

Cyrad wrote:
I'd wait until the campaign clarifications go live.

These are now live and while they clarify which rules apply they do not deal with how characters who have been impacted by the changes should be dealt with.

1/5

They follow the current rules since no exception has been given.
Tumor familiars just lose the archetype if they had it.
Thundercallers just use standard actions for their stuff now.

Grand Lodge

Both of these questions were answered in previous updates to the AR and Campaign Clarifications page. Hence, no free rebuild...if you have been playing with a Tumor Familiar with the protector archetype, you have been doing so against the rules of PFS play for quite some time...same if you were trying to speed up Thunder Caller abilities.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Before UW, one of those was explicitly allowed, and the other was an issue of table variation (with really no concrete support to the contrary).

Nothing "against the rules of PFS play" occurred.

5/5 *****

Slyme wrote:
Both of these questions were answered in previous updates to the AR and Campaign Clarifications page. Hence, no free rebuild...if you have been playing with a Tumor Familiar with the protector archetype, you have been doing so against the rules of PFS play for quite some time...same if you were trying to speed up Thunder Caller abilities.

The thundercaller thing has been table variation for a while. The tumour familiar has been a legal option for the protector archetype. These things have only changed in Ultimate Wilderness. So the question remains:

1. If I have a tumour familiar with the protector archetype is it still legal. If it isn't can I retrain to a different archetype for free or do I have to pay.

2. If I have a thundercaller bard can I retrain out of the archetype and/or into a different one. Can I sell back equipment or rebuild feat choices taken to support it.

The AR update dealt with rebuilds for other changes but neither of these two.

Silver Crusade 1/5

I'm also curious about the Tumour-Protector.

A third question, if I may:

3. The Vine Strike spell was reprinted with new wording and is listed as not legal in the AR entry for Ultimate Wilderness. Does this mean that the original wording from Melee Tactics Toolbox is still legal? There has been no change to AR for that source.

Paizo Employee 4/5 ** Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm curious what kind of rebuild we can get as Magical Child, with the clarificaiton calling out the archetype in the familiar section of the book (honestly, did the archetype really need the nerf?).

1/5 Customer Service Representative

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Removed some posts. We have a large community that has many members who try to be helpful. Snide or rude comments in either direction just serve to make the community a less friendly one. If someone tries to be helpful it is possible to point out a post they may have missed without attacking them. If you feel someone is being rude, instead of retaliating please flag the post and move on.

1/5

Trying to find out what Animal Companions from Ultimate Wilderness is legal for society play

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Mike Sowards wrote:
Trying to find out what Animal Companions from Ultimate Wilderness is legal for society play

It's right there in the Additional Resources:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/rpg/additional wrote:
Companions: The animal companions, familiars, plant companions, and vermin companions in this book are legal for play except ioun wyrd. The expanded companion options for cavaliers, paladins, and rangers on page 178 are legal. Plant companions are available only as allowed by specific archetypes or other options. The magic item slots table on pages 176–177 is legal for play with two exceptions: a flying fox familiar uses the avian body type, and the quadruped (short legs) body type gains a saddle slot (see the rules found in the Organized Play FAQ).

Is there something unclear about it?

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville

Dustin Knight wrote:
I'm curious what kind of rebuild we can get as Magical Child, with the clarificaiton calling out the archetype in the familiar section of the book (honestly, did the archetype really need the nerf?).

To go further to this, I am not quite understanding what this passage is saying and how to quantify it to the Archtypes that come after.

Ultimate Wilderness wrote:

Shapechanging Familiars: Familiars that can take various

forms, such as the magical child’s animal guide, imps, and
quasits, must have the same archetype for each form, and it
must be legal for all of those forms (meaning if any form is
an improved familiar, it can’t take archetypes that don’t stack
with improved familiar).

None of the Archtypes mention improved Familiar...

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Hillis Mallory III wrote:
Dustin Knight wrote:
I'm curious what kind of rebuild we can get as Magical Child, with the clarificaiton calling out the archetype in the familiar section of the book (honestly, did the archetype really need the nerf?).

To go further to this, I am not quite understanding what this passage is saying and how to quantify it to the Archtypes that come after.

Ultimate Wilderness wrote:
Shapechanging Familiars: Familiars that can take various forms, such as the magical child’s animal guide, imps, and quasits, must have the same archetype for each form, and it must be legal for all of those forms (meaning if any form is an improved familiar, it can’t take archetypes that don’t stack with improved familiar).
None of the Archtypes mention improved Familiar...

Improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind. So an improved familiar cannot have any archetype that replaces "speak with other creatures of their kind."

Paizo Employee 4/5 ** Developer

So three people in my lodge started making Oozemorphs and we've encountered some dreaded "table variation" I wouldn't mind some clarification on:

1. Does the Oozemorph ever count their natural weapons as magic? (This isr eally important for this archetype since it's the only shifter that can never get Amulet of Mighty Fists in its default form. But under the new FAQ the magic item property is only granted using an ability the oozemorph replaces as an archetype.)

2. Can an Oozemorph communicate basic things with another oozemorph via ooze empathy? (Or are other oozemorphs too smart?)

3. Can Oozemorphs use spell-like abilities in their default form?

4. Does any oozemorph with racial energy resistance lose it in their default form?

5. Can we allow oozemorphs to use potion spongues in the campagin in their default form? (currently they cannot...this one is less of a rules issue and more of a request for the purposes of flavor).

1/5 * RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Elementalist Shifter archetype is still missing the energy types for elemental strike. Sure, we can make a good guess, but this should be specified.

(I also wish the whole archetype got significant revisions since wild shape is heavily nerfed compared to the druid, wild shape doesn't work with the main reason to have the archetype, and some of the aspects actually cripple your character.)

Dark Archive 3/5 5/5

Dustin Knight wrote:

So three people in my lodge started making Oozemorphs and we've encountered some dreaded "table variation" I wouldn't mind some clarification on:

1. Does the Oozemorph ever count their natural weapons as magic? (This isr eally important for this archetype since it's the only shifter that can never get Amulet of Mighty Fists in its default form. But under the new FAQ the magic item property is only granted using an ability the oozemorph replaces as an archetype.)

2. Can an Oozemorph communicate basic things with another oozemorph via ooze empathy? (Or are other oozemorphs too smart?)

3. Can Oozemorphs use spell-like abilities in their default form?

4. Does any oozemorph with racial energy resistance lose it in their default form?

5. Can we allow oozemorphs to use potion spongues in the campagin in their default form? (currently they cannot...this one is less of a rules issue and more of a request for the purposes of flavor).

Based on some rereading and experience playing one...

1) Your ooze weapons never count as magic unless someone casts Magic Fang on them. Thankfully, by the time you can afford an amulet you should be around level 4, where you can spend a full 8 hour working day in a humanoid form.

2) Technically not, since you don't count as an ooze and you have 5+ Int. Thankfully, you can grow a piercing weapon and use it to draw in the dirt.

3) Nope. Can't use and spells. Mostly solved at level 4, see above.

4) I.... can't give you a solid answer. Talk with your GM each table, and be prepared for the worst. A lot of racial abilities are questionable with this. I strongly suggest playing Human, or at least swapping out racial SLAs.

5) That might be fun. I'd also enjoy that, but buying potions as oils (so the party gets to rub them against the blob) is also fun. Remind me to pick a few up.

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