potion of heal


Rules Questions


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

i'm trying to determine the cost of making a potion of heal.

brew potion only works on spells up to level 3, so this feat isn't an option. if it were an option, a potion of heal at level 11 would cost 3300 gp -- spell level 6 x caster level 11 x 50.

so presumably it would need to be created as a wondrous item. using craft wondrous item and the estimating magic item gold piece values table, the cost would be 1320 gp - spell level 6 x caster level 11 x 2000 for use-activated item /2 for 50 charge item /50 for one charge.

does this creation method seem reasonable? does 1320 seem like a reasonable price for an 11th level potion of heal?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It’s a spell effect use-activated item, so at CL 11 it should be 3,300, as you calculated. That’s the standard pricing formula for “not a potion” potions (see Elixir wondrous items for other examples).


Don't forget it's a slotless item for calculations.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cavall wrote:
Don't forget it's a slotless item for calculations.

D’oh!


It isn't worn, so there's no reason to price it as a slotless or slotted item--it's simply a spell-in-a-can.

The best match on the table is

Quote:
Single use, use-activated Spell level × caster level × 50 gp

which is 3,300 gp, same as it would be as a potion.


So you could make "potions" of spells with target of Self with Craft wondrous item?


If the GM lets you, yes. Makes Brew Potion seem silly if you can just craft chewing gum of cure light wounds. A lot of GMs restrict what sort of custom items can be made or increase the cost if they seem to be doing things inappropriate for the slot or item type. I tend to go full house rule in the other direction.


It should be AT LEAST 3300. IS there any healing item that is somewhat similar? Cause that can help show if the price needs to be higher.


I find it silly that brew potion stops at level 3. I'd just use brew potion rules and allow brew potion to not cap.
Availability of those potions would be limited though...

Sovereign Court

You can get close with Brew Potion.

How much gold do you want to spend and how much do you want to heal?
Make a potion of Curative Distillation (Advanced Players Guide, assuming from cleric list, 3rd level CL 5, 750 gp) will heal for 1d8+5 "and grant the benefits of the material component". In this case, another potion of Curative Distillation for another 1d8+5.
And again. And again.
A "real" potion of Heal (CL 11) would cure 110 hp, and some conditions. Looking at just the HP healed, we would need approximately (with a potion of Cure Serious at the end) 10 Curative Distillations, for an average of 113.5 hp healed. 8250 gp.

Oh, and you can use Alchemical Allocation with it.


Firebug wrote:

You can get close with Brew Potion.

How much gold do you want to spend and how much do you want to heal?
Make a potion of Curative Distillation (Advanced Players Guide, assuming from cleric list, 3rd level CL 5, 750 gp) will heal for 1d8+5 "and grant the benefits of the material component". In this case, another potion of Curative Distillation for another 1d8+5.
And again. And again.
A "real" potion of Heal (CL 11) would cure 110 hp, and some conditions. Looking at just the HP healed, we would need approximately (with a potion of Cure Serious at the end) 10 Curative Distillations, for an average of 113.5 hp healed. 8250 gp.

Oh, and you can use Alchemical Allocation with it.

Plus all of the condition removal.... So probably another 10 different potions for another 8250...


I don't know of any existing wondrous item that functions as heal, even just the hit point recovery part.


It's funny how we are more accepting of wondrous items making potions more than potions just going above 3rd level.

Like.. If we are gonna bend a rule does it have to make that feat even more broken


That's how the rules set us up. Potions are explicitly limited to 3rd level, while wondrous items have no such limitation.

Yes, it's very silly.


Cavall wrote:

It's funny how we are more accepting of wondrous items making potions more than potions just going above 3rd level.

Like.. If we are gonna bend a rule does it have to make that feat even more broken

Actually forcing better spells such as heal to not be potions is helping balance. That spell is way too good for the potion formula. With everything it can do, forcing someone to use the Wondrous item creation feat, and adhocing the price is better for the game.


Chess Pwn wrote:
It should be AT LEAST 3300. IS there any healing item that is somewhat similar? Cause that can help show if the price needs to be higher.

A scroll of Heal (1650gp)?

This item is similar but has no caster level / UMD requirements. And it's much harder to use offensively against undead.

Twice the price seems fair, unless you really want to preserve the privileges of divine casters. Maybe a bit more, to protect Brew Potion as a feat (if you could make anything as an elixir, why would you ever use a potion?).


wraithstrike wrote:
Cavall wrote:

It's funny how we are more accepting of wondrous items making potions more than potions just going above 3rd level.

Like.. If we are gonna bend a rule does it have to make that feat even more broken

Actually forcing better spells such as heal to not be potions is helping balance. That spell is way too good for the potion formula. With everything it can do, forcing someone to use the Wondrous item creation feat, and adhocing the price is better for the game.

I straight up disagree that making wondrous items feat stronger is somehow better for the game.

If anything it should already be 2 different feats. Slotless and worn, maybe.


<..< I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment: Make a f-ing Heal 1/day item, damnit. It only costs 4x as much as the original estimate (SLxCLx[1000/5] = 6*11*200 = 13,200), and it's basically a once-per-fight item... but it's still reusable.

As a side note, I'm the guy that makes GMs hate the Dynamic Crafting system, because I remind them that almost all of the challenges can be improved with Tears to Wine, and that I can hire experts to help out. We did the math, a specialist in a field costs about 15 gp per day, is a 5th level NPC, and has a +14 in their field (I don't remember the exact formula, but it was derived from the Paizo page on hiring mercs and various non-combat NPCs). This allowed me to drive the price of crafting an item below the base 50% cost line. >..> I break magic item system. My GM is tempted to take my main and make me play his follower.


Off topic:

Skill buffing:
This post and following have:
+2 Luck: Four-leaf Clover -- 3,750 gp
+5 Luck: Beloved Of The Forge (1H/L)
+5 Luck: Crafter's Fortune (1D/L)
+2/5/10 Enh: Tears to Wine (10M/L)
+2 Circ: Masterwork Tools -- 50 gp
+2 Comp: Magenta Prism (cracked) [Ioun Stone] -- 800 gp
+5 Comp: Monocle of Flawlessness (trained crafts) -- 8,750 gp
+10: Insight: Azlant Pendant -- 3,100 gp
Reroll: Fortunate Charm -- 3,000 gp
+5 Untyped: Visualization Of The Mind (200 gp, lasts 24 hours)
+1/3CL untyped: Genius Avaricious (one month & 1.500 gp)
+2 morale: Heroism (10 min./level)
+2d4 competence: Gallant Inspiration (retroactive)
+3 to +6 competence: Toilsome Chant (1H/CL, need bard 3+)
+4 competence: Grand Destiny (10 minutes/level or until discharged)
+1/5CL (max 3) competence: Timely Inspiration (retroactive)
+CL insight: Moment of Prescience (1 hour/level or until discharged)
+1/4CL insight: Rags To Riches (10 minutes/level)
+3 racial: Ignoble Form (24 hours, drow target)

/cevah


Zarius wrote:

<..< I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment: Make a f-ing Heal 1/day item, damnit. It only costs 4x as much as the original estimate (SLxCLx[1000/5] = 6*11*200 = 13,200), and it's basically a once-per-fight item... but it's still reusable.

As a side note, I'm the guy that makes GMs hate the Dynamic Crafting system, because I remind them that almost all of the challenges can be improved with Tears to Wine, and that I can hire experts to help out. We did the math, a specialist in a field costs about 15 gp per day, is a 5th level NPC, and has a +14 in their field (I don't remember the exact formula, but it was derived from the Paizo page on hiring mercs and various non-combat NPCs). This allowed me to drive the price of crafting an item below the base 50% cost line. >..> I break magic item system. My GM is tempted to take my main and make me play his follower.

Table: NPC Ability Scores

Skill NPC
Basic: 13 Int -- +1
Table: Racial Ability Adjustments:
Elf, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, and Human can get a +2 Int -- +1
Expert:
The expert can choose any 10 skills to be class skills.
Skill: 5 ranks & class skill -- +8
HD stat bump Int +1 -- +1
Skill Focus -- +3

Total 5th level expert: +14 to skill

Options:
Feat: Magical Aptitude +2 Spellcraft
Feat: Master Craftsman +2 bonus on your chosen Craft or Profession skill
Feat: Master Alchemist: +2 craft(Alchemy)
Feat: Prodigy: +2 Craft
Item: Masterwork tools: +2 to skill
Magic: +2 comp to a skill (fits in WBL, could do +4 if skimped elsewhere)
Spells*: Either Beloved of the Forge or Crafter's Fortune for +5 to craft
*Must be a PC classed NPC, which has two higher Int for another +1

Total options: +12 or more
Grand total: +26 or more

/cevah

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