very first game. advice on druid


Advice


my friend really want me to play this game with him. and has finally convinced me to play. ive been trying to figure out the rules before the game it self stats but im not sure if the build i made works/ is allowed. im allowed to use third party stuff for the game he has convinced me to join

i made a Kraken Caller druid his stats are 17 7 12 10 15 12.

i want to know if i can take a 1 level dip to a class that can the spell http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/enlarge-person
to make my self big. use my kraken powers to combined all my tentacles into like 1 or 2 big ones
and then use the spell https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/strong-jaw/ to make my tentacles even bigger.
is this allowed? and if it is what other things could i do to buff my giant squishy clubs?
i still havent picked a race yet or a domain.

if i die they said i could make a new guy to rejoin them at the same level my druid was, so as a back up i am going to make a malefactor (i like there theme of bad luck) http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/total-party-kill-games-cl asses/malefactor/
but what feats and talents and races would be good for such a debuffing class?


Using this ability?

Quote:

The kraken caller can alternatively expend a daily use of wild shape to grow tentacles out of her body while otherwise retaining her own form. This effect lasts for 10 minutes per level, or until the kraken caller changes back.

At 4th level, the kraken caller grows two tentacles while in this form. The tentacles have a reach of 5 feet regardless of the kraken caller’s size, and the kraken caller can use them as secondary natural attacks that deal 1d4 points of damage (1d3 for a Small kraken caller).

From the FAQs:

Quote:

Size increases and effective size increases: How does damage work if I have various effects that change my actual size, my effective size, and my damage dice?

As per the rules on size changes, size changes do not stack, so if you have multiple size changing effects (for instance an effect that increases your size by one step and another that increases your size by two steps), only the largest applies. The same is true of effective size increases (which includes “deal damage as if they were one size category larger than they actually are,” “your damage die type increases by one step,” and similar language). They don’t stack with each other, just take the biggest one. However, you can have one of each and they do work together (for example, enlarge person increasing your actual size to Large and a bashing shield increasing your shield’s effective size by two steps, for a total of 2d6 damage).

So you could start from medium (1d4) and use Enlarge Person to get the damage up to 1d6 and then use Strong Jaw to get the damage up to 2d6. But by the look of it you can't benefit from Strong Jaw and retracting a tentacle at the same time.

Advice: You're probably better off not multiclassing into an arcane class with Enlarge Person. A potion of Enlarge Person is only 50gp, or you could ask an ally to cast it on you.

The best way to increase your tentacle damage is to increase your Strength, since that increases both attack rolls and damage rolls.


VacUmber wrote:

i still havent picked a race yet or a domain.

If you GM allows 3rd party like malefactor, ask him if you can take Growth subdomain of Plant domain (that Druid can take).


You have got to take Multiattack, reducing your attack penalty from -5 to -2.

You can still regular-Wild Shape into Aquatic Animals, including the Giant Octopus. A Giant Octopus Druizilla character is terrifying.

You could dip into Barbarian, using Rage to give yourself +4 St so a +2 attack and damage on all those Tentacle Attacks.

Since your Natural Attacks are already Secondary, you might as well also use regular weapons, which you can do with no penalty.

Since you can retract your Tentacles to make 1 big tentacle, you might take Vital Strike feats. You might develop an Attack of Opportunity trigger. To attack multiple opponents with a single big weapon, the classic Feat to take is Great Cleave, but I recommend against this because of the Attack Penalty for Secondary Natural Attacks can totally ruin your Cleave. You might be a candidate for Whirlwind Attack, but I'm just brainstorming here.

Still brainstorming, and still silly, but if you dip enough levels in Magus to get Wand Wielder, and use a Wand of True Strike. Then take Power Attack...


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

You have got to take Multiattack, reducing your attack penalty from -5 to -2.

You can still regular-Wild Shape into Aquatic Animals, including the Giant Octopus. A Giant Octopus Druizilla character is terrifying.

You could dip into Barbarian, using Rage to give yourself +4 St so a +2 attack and damage on all those Tentacle Attacks.

Since your Natural Attacks are already Secondary, you might as well also use regular weapons, which you can do with no penalty.

Since you can retract your Tentacles to make 1 big tentacle, you might take Vital Strike feats. You might develop an Attack of Opportunity trigger. To attack multiple opponents with a single big weapon, the classic Feat to take is Great Cleave, but I recommend against this because of the Attack Penalty for Secondary Natural Attacks can totally ruin your Cleave. You might be a candidate for Whirlwind Attack, but I'm just brainstorming here.

Still brainstorming, and still silly, but if you dip enough levels in Magus to get Wand Wielder, and use a Wand of True Strike. Then take Power Attack...

what is the differences between a secondary natural attack and a primary one and is there any way to make my tentacle a primary one?


VacUmber wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

You have got to take Multiattack, reducing your attack penalty from -5 to -2.

You can still regular-Wild Shape into Aquatic Animals, including the Giant Octopus. A Giant Octopus Druizilla character is terrifying.

You could dip into Barbarian, using Rage to give yourself +4 St so a +2 attack and damage on all those Tentacle Attacks.

Since your Natural Attacks are already Secondary, you might as well also use regular weapons, which you can do with no penalty.

Since you can retract your Tentacles to make 1 big tentacle, you might take Vital Strike feats. You might develop an Attack of Opportunity trigger. To attack multiple opponents with a single big weapon, the classic Feat to take is Great Cleave, but I recommend against this because of the Attack Penalty for Secondary Natural Attacks can totally ruin your Cleave. You might be a candidate for Whirlwind Attack, but I'm just brainstorming here.

Still brainstorming, and still silly, but if you dip enough levels in Magus to get Wand Wielder, and use a Wand of True Strike. Then take Power Attack...

what is the differences between a secondary natural attack and a primary one and is there any way to make my tentacle a primary one?

Primary natural attacks use full BAB and full Strength modifier for damage (or 1.5x Strength modifier in certain instances), and secondary natural attacks use BAB - 5 and half Strength modifier for damage.

The special rule for Natural Weapons is that if you have only one natural weapon (AKA one tentacle attack), it is always considered Primary, and always adds 1.5x Strength modifier for damage, but if you use other weapons in concert with this natural attack (such as a sword or spear), it automatically defers to being Secondary.


Darksol is right, although that's using a Natural Weapon along with a regular weapon. Some Natural Weapons will be secondary when used along with other Natural Weapons while others will still be Primary. But if you have more than one Primary Natural Weapon, you lose the extra strength bonus to damage. For example, if you have Bite and Slam, both are Primary attacks and use full BAB but no extra damage for either. But if you have Bite and Hooves, only Bite is Primary. And all Secondary Attacks do add half the Str mod on damage.

Oh, and just to be clear, even if you have multiple attacks with your tentacles, as long as the tentacles are the only Weapon you have, Natural or otherwise, it's considered Primary.


Heather 540 wrote:
Darksol is right, although that's using a Natural Weapon along with a regular weapon. Some Natural Weapons will be secondary when used along with other Natural Weapons while others will still be Primary. But if you have more than one Primary Natural Weapon, you lose the extra strength bonus to damage. For example, if you have Bite and Slam, both are Primary attacks and use full BAB. But if you have Bite and Hooves, only Bite is Primary.

so if i just only used 1 big tentacle with no other weapons it would count as a primary attack?


I made an edit to my post. Even with more then one tentacle, it's considered a single natural weapon, so every attack would be Primary.


Though I'd actually advise using a weapon as well, likely a scythe or a longspear, if you're going to maximize your damage.

EDIT

You could use the plant domain, growth subdomain, to get bigger.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
VacUmber wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

You have got to take Multiattack, reducing your attack penalty from -5 to -2.

You can still regular-Wild Shape into Aquatic Animals, including the Giant Octopus. A Giant Octopus Druizilla character is terrifying.

You could dip into Barbarian, using Rage to give yourself +4 St so a +2 attack and damage on all those Tentacle Attacks.

Since your Natural Attacks are already Secondary, you might as well also use regular weapons, which you can do with no penalty.

Since you can retract your Tentacles to make 1 big tentacle, you might take Vital Strike feats. You might develop an Attack of Opportunity trigger. To attack multiple opponents with a single big weapon, the classic Feat to take is Great Cleave, but I recommend against this because of the Attack Penalty for Secondary Natural Attacks can totally ruin your Cleave. You might be a candidate for Whirlwind Attack, but I'm just brainstorming here.

Still brainstorming, and still silly, but if you dip enough levels in Magus to get Wand Wielder, and use a Wand of True Strike. Then take Power Attack...

what is the differences between a secondary natural attack and a primary one and is there any way to make my tentacle a primary one?

Primary natural attacks use full BAB and full Strength modifier for damage (or 1.5x Strength modifier in certain instances), and secondary natural attacks use BAB - 5 and half Strength modifier for damage.

The special rule for Natural Weapons is that if you have only one natural weapon (AKA one tentacle attack), it is always considered Primary, and always adds 1.5x Strength modifier for damage, but if you use other weapons in concert with this natural attack (such as a sword or spear), it automatically defers to being Secondary.

Ooh, good catch, if all you have is that 1 Tentacle, then it is a primary natural attack, and so Cleave is back on the table, and Multiattack may not be necessary. I forget whether multiple tentacles would count as a single natural attack and therefore be all primary.


Heather 540 wrote:
I made an edit to my post. Even with more then one tentacle, it's considered a single natural weapon, so every attack would be Primary.

I had forgotten about that. Cool.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Heather 540 wrote:
I made an edit to my post. Even with more then one tentacle, it's considered a single natural weapon, so every attack would be Primary.
I had forgotten about that. Cool.

So you are a Catfolk, and you have Claws and no other Natural Attack, that Catfolk's Claws get +1.5 X ST MOD in Damage as the Catfolk's sole natural attack?

Grand Lodge

Don't catfolk get 2 sets of claws? 2 natural attack so 1x str.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
VacUmber wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:

You have got to take Multiattack, reducing your attack penalty from -5 to -2.

You can still regular-Wild Shape into Aquatic Animals, including the Giant Octopus. A Giant Octopus Druizilla character is terrifying.

You could dip into Barbarian, using Rage to give yourself +4 St so a +2 attack and damage on all those Tentacle Attacks.

Since your Natural Attacks are already Secondary, you might as well also use regular weapons, which you can do with no penalty.

Since you can retract your Tentacles to make 1 big tentacle, you might take Vital Strike feats. You might develop an Attack of Opportunity trigger. To attack multiple opponents with a single big weapon, the classic Feat to take is Great Cleave, but I recommend against this because of the Attack Penalty for Secondary Natural Attacks can totally ruin your Cleave. You might be a candidate for Whirlwind Attack, but I'm just brainstorming here.

Still brainstorming, and still silly, but if you dip enough levels in Magus to get Wand Wielder, and use a Wand of True Strike. Then take Power Attack...

what is the differences between a secondary natural attack and a primary one and is there any way to make my tentacle a primary one?

Primary natural attacks use full BAB and full Strength modifier for damage (or 1.5x Strength modifier in certain instances), and secondary natural attacks use BAB - 5 and half Strength modifier for damage.

The special rule for Natural Weapons is that if you have only one natural weapon (AKA one tentacle attack), it is always considered Primary, and always adds 1.5x Strength modifier for damage, but if you use other weapons in concert with this natural attack (such as a sword or spear), it automatically defers to being Secondary.

Ooh, good catch, if all you have is that 1 Tentacle, then it is a primary natural attack, and so Cleave is back on the table, and Multiattack may not be necessary. I forget...

I take it back. It's not a good catch at all. The Kraken Caller's Tentacles are totally just Secondary Natural Attacks.

Druid, Archetypes, Kraken Caller wrote:
The tentacles have a reach of 5 feet regardless of the kraken caller’s size, and the kraken caller can use them as secondary natural attacks

The Universal Monster Rules do say that if a particular Natural Attack is your only Natural Attack, it is primary even if it is normally secondary, but the Kraken Caller Class Description specifically calls their Tentacles out as Secondary Natural Attacks. Specific trumps general.


I re-assert my initial advice. I strongly advise you take Multiattack because your Tentacles are Secondary Natural Attacks. I advise against taking Great Cleave with the idea of using it with your big tentacle because even with Multiattack, your Tentacle suffers a -2 to your attack roll, and that is bad for Great Cleave. Whirlwind Attack would work ok, if your willing to pay the high feat tax. The big Tentacle (retracting all your tentacles) makes you a good candidate for Vital Strike Feats. Using your tentacles, since they are already secondary attacks anyway, you might as well use regular weapons, too.

Although honestly, I think your best bet for melee is to go with Wildshaping into a Giant Octopus and taking levels in Warpriest to increase your Tentacle Damage that way. If you take 4 levels in Druid, and take Shaping focus and 5 levels in Warpriest, your Tentacles will do a base 2d6 damage. If you buff yourself with a Strong Jaw Spell, it will go up to 4d6. Every one of those Tentacles also gets a free Grapple Attack via the Grab Ability. If you take Hamatula Strike, your Bite will too. You might dip a level in White Haired Witch and get a Hair Attack, too that also has a sort of Grab Ability and also benefit from Constrict. If you dipped into Barbarian, you might get a St Bonus and get lesser Fiend Totem and get a Gore Attack. If you haven't started playing yet, starting with a level in Barbarian gives you a Hit Point kick. But that presupposes you want to focus on melee.

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